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dissolving an Association

Started by BonnieG1 • 61 replies • 5052 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Have any of you had any experience dissolving an Association and starting fresh with a new Association. Our lawyer suggested we do this since some clauses in our documents are almost impossible to amend because of the requirement that 100% of the members approve the amendments.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Would you not need 100% anyways to form a new HOA? Seems to me you get everyone to vote the 100% requirements down to a reasonable majority vote, then no need for a new HOA.. Plus sounds like using a RealEstate lawyer... Do not do that...
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bonnie,

I agree with Melissa. You would likely need 100% agreement to abolish and start a new Association with new governing documents.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/19/2015 4:57 PM
Would you not need 100% anyways to form a new HOA? Seems to me you get everyone to vote the 100% requirements down to a reasonable majority vote, then no need for a new HOA.. Plus sounds like using a RealEstate lawyer... Do not do that...

Our lawyer who specializes in condominium law is going to research the NE state condominium law to see what percentage it takes to dissolve an Association. I am also going to study the NE state law to see what percentage it takes to dissolve an Association.

Our lawyer did tell us that in order to vote the 100% requirement down to a reasonable vote, we need 100% agreement to do this. When we were told this, we just about gave up even trying to amend our over 30 yr old documents until the lawyer mentioned the possibility of dissolving the Association and starting fresh.

I know we could still try to amend the parts of our documents that take only a 2/3 majority vote to amend, but a large portion of what we want to amend require 100% member approval.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Bonnie, talk about using a howitzer to swat a fly. IMHO the attorney is looking to pad his billable hours with this nonsense. In the first place the method to dissolve the association should be in the governing documents themselves and generally require as others have pointed out 100% to implement. Then there is generally a requirement on how ALL of the association's assets MUST be disposed of. If any of your homeowners are mortgaged then the mortgage holders may have a say in the matter and if I remember correctly, you are attached to a nursing home, which may also affect matters, what if they take you to court to prevent another COA on their property? I can see that dragging on and costing untold thousands of dollars.

What pray tell needs to be amended so desperately that you are considering this IMHO ridiculous scheme? And have you checked to see if the state HOA statutes may have made the areas you are looking to amend moot?
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bonnie,

Dissolving an Association (who oversees the deed restrictions) is not the same as dissolving the deed restrictions (the CC&Rs).

To dissolve the deed restrictions you will likely need 100% vote.

To amend the deed restrictions you will need to comply with the existing procedures in the current document and applicable State law.

To create new deed restrictions (after the first ones are abolished) you will likely need 100% agreement, as you can't force someone into a contract that didn't exist in the first place (unless your Congress ).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
The CC&R's are a contract between the various owners. Like any other contract, CC&R's can be reformed either by cooperation of 100% of the parties or by a judge in the county court.

Since it is not likely that 100% of the owners will agree to anything, reforming the contract through the court is the most likely way to get the job done. Your lawyer should be able to advise how to go about that and what it will cost.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
A few rounds of golf and a couple of dinners will usually get a judge to see his way to a just and proper decision.

Just kidding.

Maybe.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/19/2015 7:30 PM
Bonnie,

Dissolving an Association (who oversees the deed restrictions) is not the same as dissolving the deed restrictions (the CC&Rs).

To dissolve the deed restrictions you will likely need 100% vote.

To amend the deed restrictions you will need to comply with the existing procedures in the current document and applicable State law.

To create new deed restrictions (after the first ones are abolished) you will likely need 100% agreement, as you can't force someone into a contract that didn't exist in the first place (unless your Congress ).

D'UH
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Bonnie, give yourself some credit before you give the attorney his new car. Having seen your replies here on various subjects, you have it within you to do the research that the attorney is more than happy to do and bill you for. Have you looked at the condo law yourself to decipher if it's possible? It's just hard to do, in fact from what I have found, out of the following docs, it's the CCR's that are the most difficult to understand. The rest are easy to understand.

Corporate law and article of incorporation if you are a not for profit
state condo law
CCR
By Law

Did you say at one time your attorney was a relative or friend? I recall your defending them in another topic, but memory is poor. I ask because you have already questioned their advice since you came here too.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 08/20/2015 4:54 AM
Bonnie, give yourself some credit before you give the attorney his new car. Having seen your replies here on various subjects, you have it within you to do the research that the attorney is more than happy to do and bill you for. Have you looked at the condo law yourself to decipher if it's possible? It's just hard to do, in fact from what I have found, out of the following docs, it's the CCR's that are the most difficult to understand. The rest are easy to understand.

Corporate law and article of incorporation if you are a not for profit
state condo law
CCR
By Law

Did you say at one time your attorney was a relative or friend? I recall your defending them in another topic, but memory is poor. I ask because you have already questioned their advice since you came here too.


No our attorney is not a relative or a friend. You must be thinking of another Bonnie.
Yes I do have it in me to do the research. But when I say something our members may not listen to me which has happened before but when an attorney says it then it is gospel truth. Even if that attorney is one of the owners.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
If we did dissolve the Association, we would immediately start a new Association so there would be not need to dispose of any property.

We are neighbors to a nursing home, but not owned by the nursing home. We have our property and the nursing home has their property although we share the parking lot and at this time have not separated the parking lot into our property and their property; the parking in the lot is first come first serve.

The nursing home has no say as to how we handle anything. We just try to be good neighbors.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 08/20/2015 1:41 PM
But when I say something our members may not listen to me which has happened before but when an attorney says it then it is gospel truth.

When that occurs, you need to be armed with knowledge to ask tough questions and, if the question is deflected, insist on an answer (even if the answer is "I'll have to look that up")

So, if they say the association can be abolished, the questions to ask of the attorney might be:

a) But that doesn't actually abolish the deed restrictions, does it or are you proposing to abolish the deed restrictions to abolish the Association?

followup: Won't we need to abolish the deed restrictions under the procedure currently outlined in the deed restrictions to amend or are you thinking of taking this before a court?

followup: If your taking it before a court, what will that likely cost and what are the realistic chances that a judge will overturn the terms of the written contract?

b) Are you proposing abolishing the Association as a corporation (making it an unincorporated association) or are you proposing abolishing the Association itself?

followup: If you are abolishing the corporation, what liability risks will that create for the membership (and for how long), as the corporate shield will have been removed?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Bonnie,

In writing my last post, It occurred to me that the Attorney isn't saying to abolish the Association itself, they are suggesting abolishing the corporation known as HOA, INC.

The Association is created by virtue of the deed restrictions.

The Corporation is created by filing paperwork with the State.

Typically, when a corporation is created, the Board of Directors create the initial set of Bylaws.

This process would allow the Bylaws to be rewritten but not the CC&Rs.
NOTE: As I understand it, the Corporation can only be abolished as outlined within the Articles of Incorporation. Additionally, there may be complications if the existing bylaws are attached to the deeds (as some condominiums do that).

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Unlike condominiums that are houses we do not have deed restrictions. What we have is a Master Deed. The dissolving of the Association would mean having the Master Deed rewritten before we dissolve anything. Most of the Master Deed would stay the same, we would just be updating it. If we do vote to dissolve the Association we would vote at the very same time to accept the new (Master Deed) Association. Thus there is basically no time we would be without an Association.

Someone mentioned earlier about people moving in with one set of rules having to live by another set of rules. The same thing would happen if we amended our documents. All owners have a change to vote on the amendments just as all owners would have a change to vote on dissolving the Association.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
The more correct term is termination of the condominium. That is what it is called in the new NE Condominium Act. What does it say in your master deed about the percentage required to terminate? Any other requirements?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 08/20/2015 2:10 PM
If we do vote to dissolve the Association we would vote at the very same time to accept the new (Master Deed) Association. Thus there is basically no time we would be without an Association.

I think you would need 100% for that.

Additionally, I think you are going overboard and simply (as was said by others) simply lining the attorney's pockets.

If your voting to adopt a new master deed, then why not simply amend the existing one?

Worst case would be if the membership agrees to abolish the Association but not adopt the new master deed. This, of course, would require even more money to fix.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/20/2015 2:41 PM
Posted By BonnieG1 on 08/20/2015 2:10 PM
If we do vote to dissolve the Association we would vote at the very same time to accept the new (Master Deed) Association. Thus there is basically no time we would be without an Association.


I think you would need 100% for that.

Additionally, I think you are going overboard and simply (as was said by others) simply lining the attorney's pockets.

If your voting to adopt a new master deed, then why not simply amend the existing one?

Worst case would be if the membership agrees to abolish the Association but not adopt the new master deed. This, of course, would require even more money to fix.

The reason we are not simply amending the current master deed is that most of the items we want to amend require 100% member approval to do so. I had spend hours preparing possible amendments to our documents and there are some that would not need 100% member approval to amend.

The vote to Abolish the Association would be connected to starting a new Association. We would not have one vote and then wait even a day to have the vote on the new Association. Our lawyer did tell us there would be only a split second that we would be without an Association.

Of course others on this site have mentioned needing 100% of the members to agree to abolish the current Association. If that is the case (as I will study for myself) than that will not be a option for us either. We may just have to try to amend the parts of our documents that only need an 2/3 majority to amend.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
If our documents weren't over 30 years old I would never have mentioned amending our documents to anyone and I would have more free time.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
I found this law, part of the older Condominium Property Act that governs your regime:

"76-812. Disposition of property; vote of co-owners required; effect.
Unless otherwise provided in the master deed or bylaws, the co-owners may, by affirmative vote of at least three-fourths, elect to sell or otherwise dispose of the property, or to waive the condominium property regime; " ...[more stuff]

So what does your master deed or bylaws say, if anything, about disposing or waiving the condominium property regime? It may say 100%, or something less. If silent, then a vote of three-fourths will do.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 08/20/2015 3:49 PM
I found this law, part of the older Condominium Property Act that governs your regime:

"76-812. Disposition of property; vote of co-owners required; effect.
Unless otherwise provided in the master deed or bylaws, the co-owners may, by affirmative vote of at least three-fourths, elect to sell or otherwise dispose of the property, or to waive the condominium property regime; " ...[more stuff]

So what does your master deed or bylaws say, if anything, about disposing or waiving the condominium property regime? It may say 100%, or something less. If silent, then a vote of three-fourths will do.

Thanks Jeff, you may have saved me some time. I have read our Master Deed and Bylaws many times and I don't remember anything being addressed in regards to waiving the condominium property regime. It doesn't mean it is not in there, just that I can't remember it being in there. I will study this some more.

The 75% requirement is something we may be able to meet as long as we give the members plenty of notice and educate them as to what this would mean.

Thanks again Jeff, I have some hope now. I don't know where the others got the need for 100% approval. Maybe in their state this is the case.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bonnie

You are in an older, retirement association. Your chances of getting 100% (or even 75%) to approve are zero. Some of them do not even know what day it is nor remember what they had for breakfast this morning. Some of them are feeding their pills to the dog and taking the dog's pills, never mind understand a complicated change.

Fuhget bout it.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/20/2015 5:31 PM
Bonnie

You are in an older, retirement association. Your chances of getting 100% (or even 75%) to approve are zero. Some of them do not even know what day it is nor remember what they had for breakfast this morning. Some of them are feeding their pills to the dog and taking the dog's pills, never mind understand a complicated change.

Fuhget bout it.


This may be the case where you live but it is definitely not true of our Association. I believe the majority of the people who live here are quite able to understand if we do our job of explaining. We have at least 4 people that are still working full time. One has two full time jobs. We have on owner who is still working as an attorney. We have one owner who has his own business. I know for a fact that none of our members are feeding their pills to the dog or taking the dog's pills since we don't allow dogs.

I think you underestimate the mental ability of older people. We have had a few members that became demented but very few. The 104 yr old lady who died within the last year was mentally sharp. I only hope in 10 more years I can still be so mentally sharp. I plan to keep using my mind and staying physically active.

Do you not vote for a government representative due to age?

Any way nothing ventured nothing gained. If this is voted down, we just continue to limp along with our old documents. If it passes, in my opinion we would have a much better Association.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Do you not vote for a government representative due to age?


Absolutely, positively correct - I will NOT vote for a 'representative' who is over 62!
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
The same law goes on to say:

"Provided, that the individual apartments are unencumbered, or if encumbered [mortgages!], that the creditors in whose behalf the encumbrances are recorded agree to accept as security the undivided portions of the property owned by the debtors. Upon waiver of the regime, the co-owners shall own the property as tenants in common in accordance with their interests as determined by section 76-806.

Any such action shall be binding upon all co-owners and it shall thereupon be the duty of every co-owner to execute and deliver such instruments and to perform all acts as may be necessary."

So you have to get the mortgage holders to agree.

After the waiver of the regime, even if only for a fraction of second, the owners are tenants in common and must follow laws to agree to declare the condominium. Your lawyer will have to get you through that. Do all 100% of the tenants in common need to agree?

You will have a new condo regime, so all the deeds will have to redone, which will probably require the participation of all 100% of the owners.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Bonnie if you cannot convince 100% of the members to amend the Master Deed now, what pray tell makes you think 100% will vote to join your NEW and IMPROVED COA and it's new MASTER DEED??????????????
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
For the sake of argument:

The CCRs and the Association are no more.

Then:

Y'all become tenants in common as y'all maintain ownership.

WHO WILL PAY THE COMMON BILLS OF YOUR 'ELEMENTS' WHICH ARE STILL OWNED 'IN COMMON' ?

LET THE LEGAL BILLS BEGIN IN EARNEST

Followed by either a new association (perhaps court ordered) or bankruptcy of the owners in common, possibly due to a legal award or judgement because of lack of maintenance and/or insurance.

OR

Simply do your job and administer to the needs of the common elements AS PER THE EXISTING COVENANT and any applicable by-laws.

YOU are NOT the 'Keeper of the Association' nor 'Guardian of the People', merely a VOLUNTEER administrator.

The key word being "ADMINISTRATOR"

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
If the members do vote to dissolve the Association, it won't be effective until it is filed at the court house. At the same time the paper work establishing the new Association would be filed. I am certain our lawyer will handle this so that at no time will there be no one to pay the bills. I also plan on doing as much work as I can so that this process will go smoothly if the members vote for it.

Tim is one of my favorite posters on here. One of the reasons I am on this site is because I don't know everything and do make mistakes. Some on here just want to berate me.

Apparently no one (except maybe Time) that has responded to my post has ever been through the process of dissolving an Association and beginning a new association.

If we had been established after January 1, 1984 there would be no need to attempt to update our documents. Currently the Board has complete discretion regarding the budget. Only owners can be members of the Board which makes it difficult to get Board members. Under the newer rules (which the members could vote to follow) the Board needs to present the budget to the members for ratification. Also under the new rules only a majority of Board members need to be owners. We do have some people who are leasing who I feel would make excellentBoard Members. There are other items which I feel will be a benefit to our members including myself.

Since the members (including some current Board Members) do not read the State Laws although these laws are available in our library, In my opinion it is not a good idea to have members vote to be placed under the newer Condominium laws since few people will have even read the laws.

I put up with all the belittling and berating due to posters like Tim. There are others on this site who are helpful, Tim just stands on in my mind because of some reason excellent advise he gave.

If I already knew everything and did everything perfectly, I would have no need for this site.

So I assume that those of you who belittle and berate me know everything and do everything perfectly and don't need any advice from anyone.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
In preparing for the vote, I do intend to type and highlight the rules that will be changing so that members will not exactly what they are voting for. This can be done in two columns, one column the current rule, another column the proposed change. Our annual meeting is in February (I have given up on having a member Meeting before February) so I should have plenty of time to prepare this.

I plan on doing this over a period of time so that the members will not be bombarded with everything at once and will have time to make comments regarding changings that may be made. If we get too many negative comments about a certain issue, we may not change try to change it.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
I notice some typos after I posted. "so member will know"
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Once you abolish (assuming you can) you will then need 100% to re-establish.

You will NOT be able to abolish and reestablish simultaneously.

(else a dictatorship)p

You can NOT 'work around' the procedure for amending in the documents themselves.

Your attorney is either:

being misquoted

being misunderstood

OR

an idiot in the medical sense

ps. ? have we not been down this road before ?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Bonnie, no one is berating you. You came here and asked our opinion of doing this, to a poster the consensus is that it is a bad idea, won't work and will cost your COA unnecessary legal expenses. BUT you seem to think it will work so you have my blessings, after all I don't live there and it won't cost me a dime. So in the immortal words of Admiral David Farragut I say to you. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
GlenL,

You deal with lunacy very politely.

Perhaps the Admiral meant:

Gosh Darned Torpedoes, full speed ahead (juuuust maybe we will outrun them).

Personally, I am more fearful of the Jabberwocks. They actually are in charge.



JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bonnie

After all that has been said/advised, do you still intend to go forward with dissolving and recreating the association?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I've never been involved (or seen) an HOA/COA dissolve.

Again, I don't think the attorney is looking at actually dissolving the Association. I believe he is looking at dissolving the corporation. The Association would still exist (it would just be unincorporated).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
BTW - I agree with others, you should simply amend the existing documents vs. trying to abolish and reinstate said Association (be it the actual association or simply the corporation).
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
And that involves the Secretary of State

NOT the local court house or the county seat

albeit

the Articles of Incorporation MAY, or MAY NOT, be recorded with the Register of Deeds
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
'that' being the corporate issue

Tim's post crossed with mine
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/22/2015 5:21 PM
BTW - I agree with others, you should simply amend the existing documents vs. trying to abolish and reinstate said Association (be it the actual association or simply the corporation).

I have spent hours preparing possible amendments. Many of the amendments would need 100% of the members to agree to in order to pass. Some time ago, per our lawyers request and Board approval, I gave the possible amendments to our lawyer for review. Thus far there has been no charge for reviewing these possible amendments. The lawyer was spending time on the other items we asked him to check into.

When the lawyer met with us to discuss this (and other items I won't go into at this time) he suggested we begin fresh since so many of the amendments we wanted to present to the members needed 100% member agreement. I thought we may be able to amend the way we could amend our documents, but our lawyer told us that we would also need 100% agreement to amendment the way to amend anything that needed 100% agreement.

We could try to amend the few items that need only 2/3 majority vote, but the Board desires to follow the lawyer's advise.

I have been hearing for years that we need to update our documents. The current Board is attempting to update the documents. I have read and heard that doing this is a long expensive process. I am thankful that our lawyer is considerate of our budget. Thus far this year we have spend under $200.00 on lawyer fees.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
PS. to previous post. The lawyer charges $250.00 and hr for work he personally does. But he does use assistants.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Bonnie instead of this Kafkaesque scheme to dissolve and hope everyone agrees to join and your assertion that the dissolution wouldn't be official until recorded which would allow you time to get everyone on board for the new regime is IMHO and non-legal opinion simplistic. If you want to view that as berating I can't help it but I think you are opening the HOA up to lawsuits galore. Do you really think your CCO and the person who is letting their son squat in their unit who you have been trying your darnedest to remove will just sign on. IMHO It would be better to amend the requirement of 100% first, then start amending the rest, as the old saying goes:

Q: What's the best way to eat an elephant?

A: One bite at a time.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 08/23/2015 5:23 PM
Bonnie instead of this Kafkaesque scheme to dissolve and hope everyone agrees to join and your assertion that the dissolution wouldn't be official until recorded which would allow you time to get everyone on board for the new regime is IMHO and non-legal opinion simplistic. If you want to view that as berating I can't help it but I think you are opening the HOA up to lawsuits galore. Do you really think your CCO and the person who is letting their son squat in their unit who you have been trying your darnedest to remove will just sign on. IMHO It would be better to amend the requirement of 100% first, then start amending the rest, as the old saying goes:

Q: What's the best way to eat an elephant?

A: One bite at a time.

The young man hasn't been here since last December. His father sold the unit. If we didn't need 100% agreement to amend the clause that requires 100% agreement for article 6 of our Master Deed and parts of Section 7 or our By-laws, That is exactly the way we would go about doing this. That was the way I was planning on doing it until our lawyer told us that we need 100% agreement to amend the amendment requirements for these areas of our documents.
As far as our CCO goes, she may be so much in favor of the Board not having complete discretion when it comes to the budget, she may vote in favor of starting anew.
Another reason we want to "update our documents" is to make certain the church organization that built the building can not insist we enforce parts of our documents that refer to the church organization. We have had some trouble with them in the not too distant past. They tried to tell us what we could do on our own property-but I won't go into detail about that at this time.

Also as I mentioned before the vote to dissolve and start a new regime would take place at the same time. I am not certain exactly how it would be worded but Maybe something like:
I am in favor of dissolving the existing Condominium Regime and beginning a new Condominium Regime.
I am not in favor of dissolving the existing Condominium Regime.

We would not vote to dissolve the old regime and then work to get people on Board for the new regime. All the work would take place before the vote. If the vote is no then nothing else will be done. If the vote is yes (all the paperwork will be ready before the vote is taken) then our lawyer will go to the court house (as required in NE before this can be official) and file the paper work dissolving the old regime at the same time the New Master Deed and BY-Laws are filed for the new regime.

Also as we are preparing for the vote, if we get too much negative feedback, I doubt we would go forward with the vote.

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
I am in favor of dissolving the existing Condominium Regime and beginning a new Condominium Regime.


Go right ahead, Don Quijote, try for the 100% vote to quit one association and join another.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/24/2015 4:44 AM
I am in favor of dissolving the existing Condominium Regime and beginning a new Condominium Regime.


Go right ahead, Don Quijote, try for the 100% vote to quit one association and join another.


According to NE law we only need 75% approval. If we had been established after Jan 1, 1984 we would need 80%, If we needed 100% approval to do this there is no way I would attempt it.

The 100% is the requirement to amend the way amendments are made to certain sections of our documents. We would not be amending anything. We would be starting a new.

I don't know why people keep telling me We need 100% approval to dissolve an association when NE State law clearly states 75% and there is nothing in our documents requiring a larger percentage to do this.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieG1 on 08/24/2015 6:19 AM

According to NE law we only need 75% approval. If we had been established after Jan 1, 1984 we would need 80%, If we needed 100% approval to do this there is no way I would attempt it.

The 100% is the requirement to amend the way amendments are made to certain sections of our documents. We would not be amending anything. We would be starting a new.

I don't know why people keep telling me We need 100% approval to dissolve an association when NE State law clearly states 75% and there is nothing in our documents requiring a larger percentage to do this.

Dissolving your existing association is one thing, creating a new one another. Can you force everyone to be a member of the new association if they don't agree to it?
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
picture

head

repeatedly

banging

against

reinforced

concrete

wall

?why? - because it feels so good when you stop -
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
If you need 100% to dissolve and 100% to begin anew, you can't just give it 110% effort like some people say they do. If my math is correct, it will take a full 200% commitment. Hope you're up to the task.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
! the wall broke the wall broke !

the inmates are now loose

? who will run the asylum now ?



ps. Tim, I simply could not resist, but I'm feeling much better now, and will cease.
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 08/24/2015 10:30 AM
If you need 100% to dissolve and 100% to begin anew, you can't just give it 110% effort like some people say they do. If my math is correct, it will take a full 200% commitment. Hope you're up to the task.

We will not need 100% to dissolve and 100% to begin anew. Will someone please site the NE state law that requires this. The disclaimer on this site states this advise is not legal advice. I prefer to take the advice of our paid lawyer.

What I read in the NE state Law is:

Unless otherwise provided in the master deed or bylaws, the co-owners may, by affirmative vote of at least three-fourths, elect to sell or otherwise dispose of the property, or to waive the condominium property regime; Provided, that the individual apartments are unencumbered, or if encumbered, that the creditors in whose behalf the encumbrances are recorded agree to accept as security the undivided portions of the property owned by the debtors. Upon waiver of the regime, the co-owners shall own the property as tenants in common in accordance with their interests as determined by section 76-806.

Any such action shall be binding upon all co-owners and it shall thereupon be the duty of every co-owner to execute and deliver such instruments and to perform all acts as may be necessary.

Source:Laws 1963, c. 429, § 12, p. 1441.

Yes (if agreed to by 75% of the members) we will be tenants in common for the short time that the papers dissolving the old Association until the papers for the new Association are filed at the court house. No where in this law do I see the we need to be tenants in common forever. I will have to ask the lawyer what instruments each owner would need and what acts each owner would need to perform.
But at this time the way I read it if 75% of the owners vote yes, then it is binding on everyone. I do know we have to get the agreement of the first mortgagees. Very few of our units are mortgaged.

Just like the parts of our documents that only require 2/3 majority to amend. Once amended everyone needs to follow the documents as amended.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
OK

let us assume you are correct AND can get the mortgage holders to agree

poof - covenant gone

you would THEN require 100% to make a new contract (reform the association)

one can NOT force membership in a new contract

your 'attorney' is taking you for a long and expensive ride to nowhere

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