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MargoS (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am a board member in a community with private roads and all road damage, work and repairs are paid for by the community. Heavy trucks over 3 axels cause more damage than a regular car, one 3 axel truck is worth 9,600 car trips. We have a board enacted rule for homeowners to pay trucks fee's depending on how far away they are from the main gate. The price is $50 to $150 per truck. Do any other communities have such a rule/fee for trucks over 3 axels? Most community members have paid with no issue but there are some who feel the amount is excessive. I am trying to figure out if this is common in other communities. Any feedback or comments would be appreciated. If you are a community that does charge for trucks over 3 axels what is your fee structure and what state do you live in?
Thank you!!
Margo
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I have never heard of such a fee.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Where do you come up with your numbers?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I've never heard of such a fee either.

We also have private roads. Our only fees are for copies of the Assocaition's disclosure package, an update to the package or copies of association records. We are in Virginia.
MargoS (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We figured that each house has three round trips (includes gardeners et al) per day (six one-ways). There are 40 households x 3 years x 365 days x 3 trips - this comes out to over 131,400 trips or about $1 per car for each trip (given we spend about $120k every three years on road resurfacing and repairs). The government numbers indicated one truck is worth about 9600 cars, so a $1 a trip times 9,600 is $9,600 a truck, which is crazy to charge, so we reduced it to $50 for the first 1/3 of the road, $100 for the second 1/3 and the last 1/3 of the road is $150. If one home owner causes more damage to the roads they should pay for it, not the community as a whole was the boards way of thinking.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Your 1:9600 ration is probably off by a factor of 10 to 100. Please get your facts straight

http://www.bloomfieldhillsmi.net/residents/city_departments/residents/docs/Letter_to_the_City_of_Bloomfield_Hills_from_Hubbell.pdf
http://www.lrrb.org/media/reports/201432.pdf
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MargoS on 08/17/2015 12:55 PM

If one home owner causes more damage to the roads they should pay for it, not the community as a whole was the boards way of thinking.

Is this thinking not in conflict of your governing documents?

Typically the CC&Rs mandate that the Association maintains common areas and amenities.
Typically, the CC&Rs also specify how assessments are made (by percentage or equally).

I would think that charging more to one owner and less to another simply because they are neighbors and one lives "on the wrong side of the road" so to speak would not withstand a legal challenge if any member was inclined to challege the Boards thinking.
MargoS (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
@ MarkM31, I got my numbers from the US GAO study entitled, "Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford". They stated the road damage from one "3-axel" truck is equivalent to 9,600 cars. I did verify my numbers to get my facts straight, but that is what came from the US GAO. Thank you very much for your help and support. We are trying to be fair to all homeowners and I appreciate the feedback very much.
Have a great day!
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Is this an annual fee, or do you charge this every time someone gets a delivery? Do you have garbage trucks drive on your roads? Who pays the fee for those?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Your reference is thirty six years old. Do you have anything younger that shows this assertion has withstood more recent research?

I would think not
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
ax·el
(ăk′səl)
n.
A jump in figure skating that is initiated from the outer forward edge of one skate, followed by one and one-half midair turns and a return to the outer backward edge of the other skate.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
To answer your first question, we don't charge such a fee, and I've never heard of anyone who did. Unless you have a manned gate, enforcement would tend to be problematic.

I took a quick look at the article, it is focused on overweight trucks and trucks at the max limit of 80,000 pounds. Some of the examples they give are dump trucks, concrete mixers, garbage trucks, and semis hauling tank trailers or bulk industrial goods. Other than garbage trucks and possibly the occasional concrete delivery for driveway or sidewalk repair, most of these are not likely to be in your subdivision.

Other than those mentioned above, I would think that most 3 axle or larger trucks on your roads would be delivery trucks and moving vans. Both of these tend to be less dense cargo where the truck is likely to weigh far less than the max legal limit, and therefore cause less road damage. I really doubt that any truck is causing $150 of wear and tear without leaving visible damage.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Search for a report "Evaluation of Truck Impacts on Pavement Maintenance Costs" from 1990. It concludes that heavy trucks increase the maintenance cost by a factor of 90.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
(90/9600)X$150= $1.40

Do you really want to go thru all of that?

And who counts?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MargoS on 08/17/2015 1:05 PM

I got my numbers from the US GAO study entitled, "Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford".

Here are some links (for those who are interested):

COMPTROLLER-GENERAL'S REPORT TO THE CONGRESS: Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Support a 146 page report

GAO Office web page on the topic

Evaluation of Truck Impacts on Pavement Maintenance Costs from UCDavis. Note: this is a download file. Clicking this link will (should) open a windo asking where you want to save the pdf file.

MargoS (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
The fee pertains to large trucks like a Semi Tractor hauling two bed loads of dirt or another example is for the trucks involved with building a pool (cement mixers, semis with have cargo). It would be on the honor system to pay.
Yes, it is crazy to deal with but we see about 100 trucks or more a year going up and down our small 2 mile community. Homeowners are frustrated and are asking the board who is going to pay for all the damage the trucks are doing.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MargoS on 08/17/2015 6:06 PM
The fee pertains to large trucks like a Semi Tractor hauling two bed loads of dirt or another example is for the trucks involved with building a pool (cement mixers, semis with have cargo). It would be on the honor system to pay.
Yes, it is crazy to deal with but we see about 100 trucks or more a year going up and down our small 2 mile community. Homeowners are frustrated and are asking the board who is going to pay for all the damage the trucks are doing.

The traffic you describe is normal for a residential neighborhood. Perhaps the reason you are having "all the damage" is that your roads are substandard to begin with. Do they conform to local government standards for streets or are they just thin sheets of asphalt laid down on the dirt like you would find in the parking lot at a strip mall?

I managed a self-storage for several years and we routinely had moving vans, garbage trucks, motor homes, and rental trucks driving on our pavement. I never saw any ill effects from these vehicles. Our pavement was just one inch of asphalt laid over graded and compacted dirt.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Hi Margo

I briefly looked at the report you relied on. The biggest issue I see is that the report was addressing highway driving conditions. I hope you don't have 80,000 pound 5-axle trucks (the basis for the 9,600 multiple) barreling through your neighborhood at 65 mph.

The faster the truck is moving, the greater the potential damage. My recommendation would be to institute and enforce a speed limit for trucks. People should be able to understand it a lot easier than what you propose.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Margo,

You never really addressed my question.
Let me rephrase it.

Under what section within your CC&Rs (please cite) does the Board believe they have the authority to charge different rates and fees to members based on how far from the gate they live?
MargoS (California)
Posts: 5
Posted:
@ TimB4
in our By-Laws it states that, "The Board of Directors shall have the power to make and adopt such rules and regulations, not inconsistent with the law, the Articles of Incorporation or these Bylaws, as it may been advisable for the management of the business and affairs of the Company." The Company is in reference to the water and road company, which is what the board oversees. In our Road Restrictions it states that if any one homeowner causes damage to any part of the road than another that they are to be responsible for bearing the costs and expenses of repairing such damage. The idea of making zones for fee's bases on how far you are from the gate was to be fair to all homeowners. Our Bylaws state that "assessments for the installation, depreciation, maintenance and operation of the road system may be levied by the board on members as deemed necessary."

These big trucks have been a nightmare for the community. I know one person said it sounded normal but somedays there are 4 or more of these double loaded semis of dirt going up our very steep roads and then sliding down the roads because they can't get up the hill. They cut corners and run over front yards, they break down and the trucks are left for days until they can get repaired to get going again. The community does not want 100 or more trucks a year going up on down our two mile road. And it's all dirt trucks. That's the issue. Not delivery trucks or garbage trucks. It is one particular lot owner that is the main user of all the trucks. If he wants hundreds of cubic yards of dirt delivered to his home that's fine. But the other 39 lot owners spoke up at our Annual Meeting and did not want to pay for the road damage that these 80k pound trucks were causing. That is what got this headache inducing thing started.

The board wants to be fair to all and I am trying to make sure that happens. One of the best things was to put this question out there and the responses I have gotten have been great and very direct. It's lead me to believe that our truck fee's are too high and the road master who came up the the numbers and figures was using outdated information. We are all volunteers on the board and wish to do the right thing for everyone that lives here.

Thank you so very much for all the feedback and help.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Margo,

Thank you for the explanation. With this additional information I now understand your concern and understand the reason for the fees. It makes sense, based on what you have posted.

Tim
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Margo

You say it is one owner but when he gets done what he wants, will he not stop bringing dirt in?

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