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PatJ2 (North Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
How confidential is financial information if it was never released to the membership?

North Carolina Condo Community of 144 units, CCR’s filed in 1981.

At the end of 2012, the then Board changed management companies and incurred $10,000 in termination fees because they didn’t read the contract. This information was never released to the membership. In fact, I don’t recall Financial Statements for that year even being sent out, so the major increase on that budget line wouldn’t have been noticed. I have this information because I became Treasurer in 2013 and discovered it while reviewing previous records. The detail is contained within the monthly report the previous management company provided the Board electronically.

It is now 2015 and we have been left with a Board of 2 of 5 who have no intention of changing that situation. A small group of concerned owner’s are trying to make changes and educate people to the fact that it’s not wise to just have anyone on the Board who will volunteer. We’d like to bring this $10,000 issue up to the membership to help make the point that it’s important to have the right people on the board spending the HOA’s money. All our Board members are appointed because we have never been able to get a quorum at any of our annual meetings. If they don’t like someone they just vote them off and the good board member's resign over frustration.

Our By-laws state that we can request access to this information, but since I already have it, what liability do I have by releasing it to the members. I am not presently on the Board.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
You can't be voted off the board if you are elected by the membership. My best suggestion is to force an election and then go out and get the votes needed for a quorum.

You should check your HOA docs to see if you can use proxies for voting. Not sure how many you need for a homeowner quorum, but assuming it's 25% , there would need to be 36 votes (25% of 144) cast. If proxies are allowed, those would be counted towards the 36 count.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PatJ2 (North Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I'm sorry, this does not answer this question. Maybe you were posting to another Discussion.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well the fact that no one ever requested this information is indicative of a HOA with lots of apathy. Seems if people are not asking, then they don't want to know. You can't force them. Simply put, your agenda is not anyone else's agenda. Wait for the people to ask before sprawling the dirt laundry on the lawn...

I am all for open meetings and we passed out the expenditures at every meeting. We kept the collections only amongst the board. Collections we kept confidential between the owner and board. We did discuss if a property had a lien or was in foreclosure but never by name of the owner. So our HOA expenses were never hidden or kept from anyone.

Plus it costs money to distribute. Stamps, envelopes, paper, copies, and finding the right addresses is time consuming. Since this is your effort, you may have to pay for it NOT the HOA. So I would still approach this as if someone wants to know they request or attend a meeting. Just like every HOA usually does.

Former HOA President
PatJ2 (North Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
We are aware of the apathy the membership of our community has. A small group of concerned members are trying to change that by educating them on what happens when they don't care.

Thank you for your response.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Board members have a fiduciary relationship with the homeowners as the board is handling the owners' money on their behalf.

The liability for disclosing the association's finances to its members is zero. It is their information.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 08/10/2015 9:04 AM
Board members have a fiduciary relationship with the homeowners as the board is handling the owners' money on their behalf.

The liability for disclosing the association's finances to its members is zero. It is their information.


Yes. You are not disclosing it to people at large, you are disclosing it to members of the HOA, who have a right to that information
PatJ2 (North Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thank you all. It is as I suspected. I just wanted someone elses opinion.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You can lead a horse to water... you can not make them drink... Sorry but hard lessons in life learned here. Alot of pain suffered on this. so I do not give this advise from the surface. Yes, the info is the owners and they can access it. However, making it YOUR life purpose to do so is NOT. Plus do you know the reaction you will get and prepared for the pitch forks and barbs?

When people want action they will take it. You do not have to make them or educate them. Just like the truth it is out there... Whether someone else wants to know, you know so do your best...

Former HOA President
PatJ2 (North Carolina)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thank you Melissa for your opinion. I simply asked a question and no where stated that this was my life's purpose.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Many corporations (including HOA's) only have to release financial information/statements once year and usually done at the Annual Meeting. Miss the meeting and you often will not get a copy. This a very common procedure when the declarant is still in control.

Our BOD monthly full financial reports from our MC are some 18-20 pages long. We release financial reports (Annual Budget, Balance Sheet, Profit and Loss Budget versus Actual, 3 reports, about 4 pages total) at our Annual Meeting. Our MC will electronically release the same 3 reports upon an owner's request. They will also release any and all financial reports (except the delinquency names/addresses) upon further request. Last I heard other than BOD Members, only 2 of 113 owners had ever requested more than the 3 reports and each requested them only once. No one has ever requested the entire report. I guess they do not suspect our BOD of financial shenanigans.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Pat

Does your association work with a management company? If so and with today's technology, they should be able to put this information onto either a website or web portal. Takes all of 5 minutes.

As far as only 2 of 5 board members, that would be of greater. Technically, your association comes to a stand still, minus the essentials, like water and electricity.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am just trying to prepare you for the reality of what you want and what happens running down bunny trails... Don't expect the reaction to be "Oh my this has been going on??? Well I had better start participating and paying attention to my HOA's activities..." That's most likely NOT going to happen. It might be said of course but nothing but words...

The reality you need prepared for? "Your a board member and it's your responsibility. Why you telling me this? Isn't it your job to be responsible?" That response is enough to make anyone fume who has been working very hard to turn things around or to educate people. However, you have to be prepared for that as an answer and response.

Again, yes financials should be made available for any HOA member. However, don't expect your apathy to go away. It can be a waste of time and effort believing that if you just let everyone know what is going on people will participate and wake up. It doesn't work that way. What does? The existing HOA board working hard and getting the job done. Believe me, if you make it look easy there is always a bigger fish wanting to take over. Make it a mess, then you get a mutiny. Bottom line, work with what you got not what you wish you had...

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/10/2015 12:26 PM
Our BOD monthly full financial reports from our MC are some 18-20 pages long. We release financial reports (Annual Budget, Balance Sheet, Profit and Loss Budget versus Actual, 3 reports, about 4 pages total) at our Annual Meeting. Our MC will electronically release the same 3 reports upon an owner's request. They will also release any and all financial reports (except the delinquency names/addresses) upon further request. Last I heard other than BOD Members, only 2 of 113 owners had ever requested more than the 3 reports and each requested them only once. No one has ever requested the entire report. I guess they do not suspect our BOD of financial shenanigans.

John, it's pretty scary how much both of our HOAs sound so similar. Our treasurer every month mentions that the full 20-30 page financial report is available to any homeowner who wants a copy. When I requested a copy after the very first board meeting I went to after we moved in, I had it the next day. Included was a note that said in the 3 years since he had become the treasurer I was the first person who ever asked to see it.

Transparency is a virtue and something every HOA should seek to provide in my opinion. Our biggest problem (potential problem) is once you look at what's inside the transparent box you might not like what you see. The cause is, ironically, not enough people were curious enough over the years to take a look and because of that apathy things have degenerated (in a financial sense) to the point where serious problems now loom on the horizon.

Fortunately for us, I'm only semi-retired and my wife is still working, so we can move if we have to. There's a lot of older retirees here that don't have that option.

All the same, I'd much rather have the financial information available to me than not. If a homeowner has to guess then that's not a good situation to be in.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
When I got involved in my HOA back in 2009, I was labeled a troublemaker because nobody, the management company and attorney, wanted the status quo disturbed. Over the years served on various committees and becoming the Board President I looked at the financial aspects of the Association as "is this how I would run this IF it were my company".

I have always believed in complete transparency. Put the information on a website or web portal for all to view IF they are so inclined. Takes all of 5 minutes. If you take away the roadblocks, you take away the objections. Don't provide or make it hard to get, makes people think you have something to hide, whether true or not. After all, it's their money, some care, some don't, some will look at the financials and have NO idea what they are look at. For all they know, it's the box score from a recent Marlins baseball game.

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