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MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Recently we recieved a letter from our board...stating how hard they have been working (hahaha) to enforce the covenants. They agreed that effective June 1st those not in compliance will recieve a written warning. The homeowner will then have 30 days to comply. After August 1st those who have received a written warning and have not complied will recieve a fine every month until the issue is resolved. After 60 days of non-complience the matter will be turned over to an attorney.

I am all for this statement....in fact I think its the smartest thing our board has done in the 2 years I've been living here. Issues have been ignored, and volations have only been addressed when another homeowner has complained. Its the first pro-active statement they have made.

One of the most obvious violations in our Neighborhood are Satilete dishes. 15 violations out of 42 homes. 2 of these violations are board members. Now, most of the home owners I have spoken too, who are in complience, want this violation fixed! There really is no argument about it....it is black and white, written in the cc&rs. But they continue to argue it. They would need 90% to agree to change it....then will never get it. I want to know, can these two board members remain on the board if they refuse to comply with this rule? I think they should be writing themselves a written warning, and be getting fines.

Please help!
Thanks
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Mindy - better check with the Federal Communication Commission on those satellite dishes before you get too worked up. Irregardless of what your CC&Rs state, Federal regulations over ride them. As long as they are 39" or less, and are placed for the best reception, there isn't much your HOA can do about them. They can regulate the size if over 39" and placement as long as it doesn't affect the reception and that's about it.
Being black & white, just because it is in the CC&Rs, is not correct either. Those CC&Rs can be trumped by city, county, state or federal laws. You need to know those laws or your HOA can be liable for a lawsuit if they try to enforce something in the CC&Rs that is not allowed. Many CC&Rs were written some time ago, and contain areas that are no longer enforceable due to new laws. Harold
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
Mindy: Harold is correct. The Federal Commun. Comm. allows satellite dishes to be placed in the position to 'attain the best possible reception'. It would be up to the installer to decide just where that is on the home unit.

I don't think you have an argument against using satellite dishes or where they are placed according to the above. However, if its another matter you are concerned about, pls. be more specific.

MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Thank you for your comments, I needed to hear from others before we go ranting on about this issue......we have comsidered the fcc. Although I believe it does state in the fcc that although legally you are allowed to have a dish, if possible you must obey cc&r's of your deveolpment on placement. Dishes are suppose to be mounted to the house, and not visable from the front of the home. These dishes are placed on freestanding poles. If 27 other homes in the neighborhood can get reception, so can they. I think the fact of the matter is, when the installer came out, they didn't ask the homeowner where to place the dish. They just put it on a pole, because it was easy and right next to the box. Now the homeowner is stuck with a violation that will probably cost money to fix. I had this happen myself, when I was upgrading my own dish. The installer came out and instead of climbing up on the roof to replace the old one, was putting up an addition dish on a pole! Luckily I was home, and caught him and had him fix it.

Please...comment.
Thank you!
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
FYI the FCC ruling from 96 that most quote was amended in 98 to be a little less strict. You can find the full text here:

http://www.condolawyers.com/fccrule.htm

A legal review of it is found here:

http://www.condolawyers.com/articles/newfcc.htm

As I understand it, the revision is mostly for Associations that charge for Satelite/Cable service as part of the dues. I don't agree with the lawyers conclusions when I read the full text that when it says "Acceptable Quality Signal" that it means that Associations can go back to doing whatever they want.

I think it moves the pendulum back towards a balance. I see some dishes fixed at the front of the house pointing back at the same angle as the roofline. I would think the other three sides would be far better choices as the roof would not interfere with the signal. The only conclusion I can reach is that satelite companies are installing dishes on the fronts of housing purely for marketing purposes.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
To quote our cc&r's.

No freestanding radio or television transmission or reception towers, antennas, dishes or discs shall be erected on a lot. Only one radio and one television antenna attached to the residence not exceeding five (5) feet in height above the roofline of the residence and only (1) dish attached to the house note exceeding two (2) feet in diatmeter not visible from the street in front on the residence shall be permitted.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Mindy, as others have said you are in a pretty gray area.

My suggestion is to suggest that a committee be formed with can come up with proposals and if the board approves approach each house and get them to an acceptable area. At no point will you win an arguement in court about the size of those dishes if they are less than 39". Ultimately it comes down to the homeowners willingness to make changes for the good of the Association.

Since this is a hot issue for you, consider volunteering to chair the committee that will be tasked with doing this. Contact the FCC and get the latest regulations from them directly and they might even have suggestions for you.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
We have no issues with the size of these dishes, its just the placement. It just bothers many of the owners, that it so clearly states in or cc&r's where the placement of your dish is suppose to be and these 15 home owners are so clearly violating this, regardless of fcc.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
sorry...I click submit and keep having after thoughts.
Our cc&r's are only 4 years old, why would they make a rule like this if it conflicts with the fcc and is not valid?

Does this happen often?
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
Mindy: IMO, your CC&Rs are too strict on where to place a dish; you must take into consideration future changes in your surrounding area--new housing, taller and denser foliage/trees growing with age, other wiring in the area, etc. The average Board member/unit owner would not know how these things can affect the transmission of a signal.

If an installer advises the unit owner in order to receive the best signal the dish would need to be placed on the roof or on front of the residence (due to any of the above reasons) you would have no basis for a court case since the FCC would overrule.

Were your documents created many years ago before the prolific use of satellite dishes? It would seem the covenant was written with many restrictions re placement of transmission equipment. It is important to revisit 'old' covenant wording every few years to stay abreast of new materials/services available to homeowners. A perfect example is: a deck/patio must be concrete. Now there are wonderful resin-type materials available which do not attract mice, withstand all temperatures & weather, no maintenance and without the necessity of cement being poured which is much costlier.

No covenant should be greater than the residents it serves. We do not want the covenant to define us as a community of people, but residents can define the covenant to be a guideline in appropriate and acceptable living together.

MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
our cc&r's are only 4 years old. If this is the case, how can we "loosen" the restrictions on dishes, without compromising the overall look of our community. These dishes on poles look horrible!
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Mindy it is stated in our Covenants which are 10 years old that you can't have satelite dishes. That was one year after the FCC ruling. What happens is that a developer just takes the covenants from his last development and reuses them changing the names where appropriate.

Look in your by-laws or covenants about conflicts. Ours specifically says that where it violates federal, state or county laws that it is not enforceable.
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Having an insider knowledge on installation of satellite dishes, different companies have different satellites. You have to point the dish AT the satellite floating around in the sky. For example, DISH network has their satellite in the southwest portion of the sky. So if some people have DISH and others have Direct TV, your gonna have dishes pointing in different directions. Putting them on poles could be because of trees close to the house or not having a secure location on the roof or eave.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
I still feel very strongly that the dishes on poles could be mounted to the homes with out reception interference. My looks like it is practically pointing into the roof! And we are not in a highly wooded area. But, like you were saying they probably took cc&r's from older developments and changed the names. Any suggestions on how we can change this ruling without compromising the look of the development? The poles just look horrible!
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Mindy, I suggest your HOA establish rules and regulations on satelite dishes which comply with the FCC rulings - AND - will also reasonably and economically restrict their placement while getting good reception. We recommended such a rule to our clients to provide enforcable restrictions BEFORE dish installion. Obviously your CC&Rs are boiler plate and out of date regarding dishes; they should be ignored when the restriction is not legally enforceable.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your comments! You have saved us a great deal of time that probably would have been wasted arguing an issue that really should be handled in a much different matter then we had anticipated.
JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Posted By MindyR on 06/05/2007 5:42 AM
We have no issues with the size...just the placement. It just bothers many of the owners,I still feel very strongly that the dishes on poles could be mounted to the homes with out reception interference...The poles just look horrible! div>

If that's all in this world that bothers you, and if it bothers you THAT much, you really need a hobby. Maybe you can find some senior citizens, or young adults, or kids, or animals, or organizations, that could really use a helping hand a few hours a week--something worthwhile to take your mind off where the employee of a company placed a tv antenna.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JC3 on 06/05/2007 7:38 AM
If that's all in this world that bothers you, and if it bothers you THAT much, you really need a hobby. Maybe you can find some senior citizens, or young adults, or kids, or animals, or organizations, that could really use a helping hand a few hours a week--something worthwhile to take your mind off where the employee of a company placed a tv antenna.

JC3 positive contributions are appreciated. Personal comments about others are not.
MindyR (North Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Thank you for your comment Roger....as for JC. Believe me I do have better things to do with my time. But for your information our cc&r's have not at all been enforced in the last 4 years. Our BOD is trying to make a positive change in our community and it will be an uphill battle to enforce things that really matter if the Board Members themselves are non-compliant on even the smallest issue. I am not on the Board, just trying to support them the best way I know how. If a board member refuses to fix a violation, what's to stop another homeowner from say...painting the exterior of their home bright pink. In this case, we are learning we need to address and update our cc&r's.

I am honored that you would spend your own valuable time commenting on this forum, I am sorry to say I will no longer value your opinion.
admin
Posts: 24
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JC3 on 06/05/2007 7:38 AM

If that's all in this world that bothers you, and if it bothers you THAT much, you really need a hobby. Maybe you can find some senior citizens, or young adults, or kids, or animals, or organizations, that could really use a helping hand a few hours a week--something worthwhile to take your mind off where the employee of a company placed a tv antenna.

JC3: Roger is correct in that our rules specify that posts be helpful and friendly. Your post above is neither.

Here's one rule, "Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly." Please click the Posting Rules link beside Go to Discussion Topics at the top of the forum.

We encourage participation but this forum is here to help people and be a positive place that members want to return to.

Thank you for your support,
HOATalk.com

JC3
Posts: 290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By admin on 06/05/2007 5:20
JC3: Roger is correct in that our rules specify that posts be helpful and friendly. Your post above is neither.

You're right. My Please accept my apology.

Quote:
Here's one rule, "Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly." Please click the Posting Rules link beside Go to Discussion Topics at the top of the forum.

We encourage participation but this forum is here to help people and be a positive place that members want to return to.

Thank you for your support,
HOATalk.com

Thank you for the reminder.
ChrisW4 (Georgia)
Posts: 16
Posted:
My understanding of the dish rule is that while the HOA cannot preclude entirely the installation of a dish, the HOA can require that it be placed in as inobtrusive of a location as possible - for example, requiring that the dish be placed where it is not visible from the street as long as there is such a location where it can receive a good signal. Most installers will keep this in mind - mine was put on the back side of my roof, where it is not visible from the street, even though the satellite faces towards the street - but some don't. If there is a dish in a visible location, you could send a letter to the homeowner requiring them to either move the dish or show that there's no place better to move it.

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