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GordonS1 (Washington)
Posts: 18
Posted:
I am on the board of a small HOA in Washington state. We recently had a reserve study done and discovered that due to very low dues for many years, our reserve fund is about half of what it should be. To rectify the situation, we would need about $5K from each of 50 homeowners. We have not yet had a formal meeting to decide what to do.

In talking to a few homeowners, a popular opinion seems to be that we should not do a special assessment, and instead just spread that missing cost out over the next 10-30 years. Our most major expenses won't be for a decade, so there's no imminent risk of not being able to pay our bills.

Of course, the mentality that we should keep costs low for current owners is exactly what got us into this situation in the first place. However, I'm having a hard time trying to justify to owners why it's important for us to adequately fund our reserve account now as recommended in our reserve study.

As board members, we are charged with the long-term financial stability of the association, which means planning to properly fund our upcoming expenses evenly over time. As owners, however, many know that they will not be living here 5-10 years from now, so they are financially motivated to postpone expenses as much as possible. Because our expenses will eventually arrive no matter what, postponing expenses now only means special assessments in the future.

According to our CC&R's, a supermajority of the owners must approve any special assessment or dues increase over 10%, so the only way we'll be able to collect the funds needed now will be for the current owners to agree.

How do we as board members help convince the current homeowners that it's better to pay now? What arguments do we have that a rational homeowner would pay attention to, particularly one who is planning on moving out before major expenses arrive?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Maybe that attitude is correct.

Why set aside money for retirement before you retire? Why save up for the kids' college fund until they are in college? Why put the money for the mortgage aside when it is not the first of the month? Car payment schmar payment!

If they were rational homeowners they would not have purchased in an HOA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Spreading it out over time is likely the best route. It will probably have the most support from the members. One way to help sell such an increase in assessments is to have a Reserve Study done (either professionally or on your own). If your in a condominium, I'd suggest having one done professionally vs. doing it on your own because the professional one may find items that should be in the study that you may overlook.

I'm in a 120 lot town home development HOA (not a condominium). We are having our first professional study done this year (after 30 years of being a development and 5 years after we did our very first study internally). The cost is under $3,000

For more information on Reserve Studies, see the following thread in this forum:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/103517/view/topic/Default.aspx
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
A special assessment for a non-special purpose? Doesn't make sense. A plan to ramp up reserves according to a plan does make sense.

Owners should realize however that in the event the unexpected happens- there is no alternative to a sudden special assessment.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 07/27/2015 5:07 AM
A special assessment for a non-special purpose? Doesn't make sense. A plan to ramp up reserves according to a plan does make sense.

Owners should realize however that in the event the unexpected happens- there is no alternative to a sudden special assessment.

Gordon

I agree with Fred.

You said you could increase dues 10% a year so just ramp up 10% a year. This means dues would be 50% more in 3 1/2 years and would be double in 7 years. Ramp up 7% and dues would double in 10 years. It is called compounding.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Unfortunately, under funded reserves is a common problem and one of the reasons that mortgage lenders consider HOA's and especially COA's a risky investment. Somewhere "down the road" the mortgagor could be hit with a large "special assessment" which they can't afford putting the whole loan at risk.

Unlike in the past, lenders now look closely at the financial health of the Association as a whole (not just the individual borrower)when deciding if they will approve a loan and even how high the interest rate will be. This includes the reserve account and the Associations ability to make future major repairs without special assessments.

There is more at stake here than just future repairs.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
GordonS1 (Washington) :

$250,000 is the shortfall shown in your new reserve fund. If that is the current date under-funding, reluctant owners need to also consider the amount down the road and the worse hit to be taken if not addressed then or if unscheduled. System replacement projections are judgment estimates vulnerable to premature breakdowns.

Current owners run risks - maybe illegally in your jurisdiction - by slope-shouldering current obligations onto future owners.

Consumers are already smart enough to punish the market value of reserve-underfunding. Resale buyers have been doing so for decades in our jurisdiction with the Legislature & accountants under pressure to enforce. Owners may want to duck funding, but the marketplace may have a cruel punishment.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Since you've had a reserve study done, why not ask the reserve specialist if he/she could attend a meeting (this is a great topic for a special homeowners meeting) and do a presentation on the findings (complete with a few horror stories about HOAs who didn't reserve and found themselves in a bad way?) The specialist has usually heard these arguments before and would have more experience in handling it.

To add more punch, perhaps a few works from a banker (preferably one with experience in working with HOAs) would also help - the banker could speak to the issue of how a strong reserve fund can help persuade the bank to underwrite a mortgage and that would help home sales now and in the next 5-10 years.

Otherwise, one comment I'd make is that the future has a nasty way of coming up when you least expect. You may think you'll be gone in 5-10 years, but what happens if there's a disaster and you need money next year?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GordonS1 (Washington)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your perspectives so far. They've been enlightening!

We have been considering a special assessment as it's the only way to get the property immediately to 100% fully funded. Any other alternative (keeping dues low, ramping up over time, even paying over just 5 years) leaves us underfunded in the interim - proposals range from 10-30 years. Most homeowners seem to be of the "don't go bankrupt" school of finance, where any level of funding above zero is acceptable. Obviously our reserve study recommends a much healthier funding position.

JohnC46: Increasing 10% per year doesn't effectively pay off the past nor does it adequately prepare us for the future. Since our dues were so low, we were already planning on increasing rates nearly 10% a year anyway, just to keep up with rising operating costs. This plan still leaves very little being devoted to the reserve fund. All of the plans being considered start with a jump of around 50% immediately just to start properly funding the reserve fund from this point. There's still the problem of what to do with this $5K per owner gap.

BobD4: This is a good point. It is risky for us to be so severely underfunded. However, if the alternatives are:

1) Definitely pay now, OR
2) Maybe pay in the future,

Most homeowners are apt to choose option 2. Anything that pushes current costs into the future is a tempting proposition, because it means that those costs will be borne by future owners. That means it's highly desirable by current owners, whether they plan to move or not.

FredB4: Yours might be the most helpful insight. Qualifying for a mortgage is a strong motivator. Unfortunately, our understanding is that even programs like FHA require a minimum of only 30% funding in the reserve fund. We're at about 50% now. I wonder if you have any pointers on strict lenders or rejections based on a certain percentage?
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> We have been considering a special assessment as it's the only way to get the property immediately to 100% fully funded. Any other alternative (keeping dues low, ramping up over time, even paying over just 5 years) leaves us underfunded in the interim

You SAID the anticipated major expenses are in a decade. So you have no problem with the gradual increase!

And if something unexpected happens- THAT is the time for an assessment.

Don't try to solve a problem that doesn't really exist in a manner that will be very hard to sell.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
I just have to wonder what are your dues levels currently?

How many units? And your total operating budget is ___________________.

Sounds like the plan many properties have used for decades. Cover the bare minimum and hope you don't ever need more.

Just how old is your property?

We were underfunded for years. The former President made that his claim to fame.

Common sense tells you as the property gets older your costs will rise and the money will come from somewhere.

1) issues with qualifying for lending from banks for new buyers

2) issues for those who might be refinancing

3) avoiding a large assessment in case of a major unforeseen expense

4) protecting the value of your investment by being financially healthy in the event you decide to sell

5) postponing necessary repairs which in the end increase your final costs

Our property is 30+ years old. When I took over as board president we held less than $30,000 in total assets.

Covering more than 130 condominium units on 16+ acres hardly enough to fund the necessary long term maintainable.

We now have nearly $500,000 in assets and have performed over $600,000 in none budgeted improvements. Above and beyond normal operating costs.

We have increased CCs one time in 6 years. This to fund an automatic transfer of 10% of our operating budget directly into a reserve account to satisfy the requirements of some local banks. That increase goes directly into our reserves.

Now most of our savings were not through increased CCs. We reviewed each and every cost eliminated or reduced them whenever possible and relied on savings rather than increased income.
Tough to judge without any actual numbers for comparison in your case.

As suggested, I would plan to implement the 10% increase in any event. Unless, someone is prepared to go door to door and solicite support that is your only option. Sometimes the board members need to act as the adults in the room. And whether it is popular or not act in the interest of the entire property and all the property owners. IF you and the board feel this strongly about a necessary increase than you sure have some work to do.

One last thought, the amount given in the RS is under optimum conditions with a tail wind. Many properties are not 100% funded in the amount of the called for reserves. We certainly were not. The process to catch up takes time. YEARS we are talking. You have taken the first steps in a good direction you had the study done, you know the ballpark needed, and now you plan to act to increase your reserves.

My most important suggestion don't only search for increased revenue but search high and low for savings and reducing costs. We were able to find quite a few that did not affect the operate of the property but rather made it more efficient.

One of our benefits to having increased reserves was income from investing those funds. When interest rates were 6% we were making several thousand per year from our reserves. Now recently we found a CD at 2% one reason I would hope interest rates rise at some point. = more income for the property.
Good luck sounds like you are heading in the right direction. Low cost in the long run will cost you more. Time and time again that proves to be true.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
In my opinion, forcing all to pay in full now is equally as bad a solution as not doing anything. What about the HO that just moved into the neighborhood? They are forced to immediately pay money that should have been paid by HOs before them. That's not quite fair and certainly not what they signed up for.

I think the only way you can sell this to HOs is as a steady increase over time. Why do you need to do anything different than that? You apparently have a fair amount of time.

I think that your approach needs to be a combination of things rather than just a "special assessment" for the purpose of getting to a fully funded reserve. I would question if you can even do a special assessment for that purpose since it's not an actual cost . . . it is a potential future cost at some unknown future time.

A few assorted thoughts:
- Have you done all that you can to cut expenses? I would consider dropping anything that isn't absolutely necessary at present time. Whatever money that was previously devoted to that could be diverted to reserves.
- Is a 2nd opinion reserve study worthwhile? Are you absolutely certain that the reserve study has accounted for the proper things at the proper lifespan, using proper interest and inflation rates? Could be that the reserve study you have is way off.
- Examine the need to repair and replace everything that is included in the reserve study. Example: Let's say you have 3 gazebos in your neighborhood (for whatever reason). What if the decision was made that when these things have reached the end of their lifespan, they are simply removed rather than rebuilt?
- Examine the need to repair and replace everything at a one for one replacement. Example: Maybe you have an asphalt walking trail. When it comes time to replace, perhaps a crushed stone path is good enough.

Maybe some of that is applicable, maybe not. Just trying to think of things from a different angle. Either way, good luck!
GordonS1 (Washington)
Posts: 18
Posted:
SheliaH: Yup, we are investigating whether our reserve specialist can attend our member meeting. He's an experienced voice of reason that can help homeowners understand that this is not just the board trying empty the pockets of the homeowners. Great idea about a banker/lender - I wonder how we might find someone who would be willing to come talk to a bunch of homeowners at an evening meeting.

FredS7: Yes, the problem with the gradual increase is that it persists the underfunded state longer. The goal is not just to avoid bankruptcy, the goal is to evenly spread costs over time. Paying less now just means paying more later.

JonD1: Great perspective, sounds like you were in a very similar position. Our current dues are $135 per month, which seem to be less than half of what comparable properties in the area charge. We have 50 units and the property is now over 30 years old. Operating budget is about $60K a year, which is primarily insurance, landscaping, and maintenance. We don't have any amenities (pool/clubhouse/etc.), we do maintain siding, roof, streets & sidewalks, and common green areas.

The list of reasons you outline is good fodder for our presentation to the members as well. I hadn't considered that banks will investigate the association finances during a homeowner refinance as well. Thanks for the helpful thoughts!

The 10% increase is a foregone conclusion. We were already anticipating a 10% increase each year for the next several years, just to be able to have a shot at covering the large upcoming expenses. But we didn't have a real plan - the board's methodology has been: 1) Focus on keeping dues low 2) Keep CURRENT costs low (even if that leads to higher expenses later) and 3) Try not to go bankrupt. For us to get on track will require an immediate injection of capital PLUS dues increases of about 50%.

We're also searching for ways to cut costs, although it's tough since the board has actually done a pretty good job keeping operating costs low. Some of our current/anticipated changes:
- re-bid our insurance policy. Our vendor hasn't changed in many years, and we don't actually know if we're getting a competitive rate or coverage.
- change from an hourly general accounting firm to a flat-rate accounting-only management firm who specializes in community associations.
- delay big expenses where feasible. We might not need to paint as imminently or as often as our reserve specialist suggests.
- take on some minor maintenance items (like touch up painting) ourselves, rather than punting everything to a handyman service.

But for the most part, these are savings on the order of a few thousand dollars a year. It's the looming costs that approach $1M within ten years that make me concerned about our future.
GordonS1 (Washington)
Posts: 18
Posted:
ND: Great points. The fairness aspect is interesting. I agree a large assessment to make up for lack of reserve is not fair to homeowners who just moved in. But if we spread out the costs over the next several years, is it fair to a homeowner who has already lived here for a long time and immediately sells? Effectively they got the advantage of underpaying their dues while passing the larger costs onto the new owner. I struggle with a "fair" way to make up for lack of past contributions at all.

There does seem to be a common attitude amongst homeowners: why bother paying now if the expenses aren't immediate? It's hard to explain in a way that makes sense - What reason is there to be at 100% funding (or any funding at all!) at any point in time prior to major expenses?

The best explanation I have is that 100% full funding represents a completely even/balanced contribution to reserve fund over time. If there are 10 owners who each live in the house for 3 years of the roof's 30-year lifespan, how should the replacement roof cost be split up? Most would say each owner should pay 10% (accounting for inflation, of course). But what happens if you're 20 years in and you figure out you're less than a third of the way there? That's basically our situation now.

For those who have done a reserve study recently, can I ask what level of funding you have? And how did your board handle a number that was less than 100%?

ND: Great thoughts on reducing expenses. As I mentioned above we have considered some of these, although we really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with ideas to cut expenses. We don't really have any optional amenities that could be downsized, but maybe there are landscaping elements we could remove/reduce to lower our long-term costs.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Gordon,

HOA homeowners should absolutely "pay as you go" for neighborhood amenities so that when the amenity needs replacing, it gets replaced without special assessment.

EXAMPLE: I live in your neighborhood and you install a pool with a 10-year life expectancy on the pool surface. The entire neighborhood HOA budget should set aside 1/10th of the cost of replacing that pool surface during the first year. In Year Six, I sell my home and move out but my responsible HOA has made sure my monthly payments have helped save 60% of the pool surface replacement. The new homeowner can then begin paying for remaining four years. There is no assessment, I've paid my share of pool usage, percentage-wise, as has the so-called "new resident."

REAL WORLD: HOA budget writers underfund Reserves to "keep dues low" but the next amenity replacement comes in ten years, at least.

In this case, the newish HOA board needs to ensure that they will have enough Reserve Funds to fully replace the amenity that "dies" in ten years....but you can watch that amenity and delay it a year IF the amenity can handle it without compromising the dues payers' use or enjoyment of the amenity.

With that baseline met, make sure you have enough funding the NEXT project that needs replacing, say in 11 to 13 years, in all cash with no assessment WHILE STILL POSSESSING AT LEAST enough cash equivalent to 10-20% of your normal operations budget.

If expenses are in check, then use dues increases - beginning with your 2016 budget - to fuel Reserves above those minimum standards on a slow but continuous basis with no deadline for necessarily reaching 100%.

The only way the HOA truly fails is to need a special assessment to cover an amenity that HOA leaders KNOW they'll be replacing on a schedule. The reason you want to save beyond the baseline amount is that the HOA will never be sure its amenities will last as long as the Reserve Study anticipates. Minimum savings can keep you on your Reserve schedule but unexpected, back-to-back Reserve projects will break you and require a special assessment.

My HOA is 36% funded by the most recent calculation but is in no danger of needed special assessment unless three or more major emergencies arise at the same time. My HOA had to raise dues on current members - and hold expenses - to run the operation and save for Reserve Funds due to incompetence (but not negligence). By the way, I don't foresee us reaching 100% funding before 2019 or 2020 and am fairly certainly we'll incur an expense that will prevent that from happening....but we will remain at minimal financial risk.

You will not avoid a special assessment from the HOA in your present state so you'll whistle by the graveyard for a years. Turn the ship slowly.

I've been there. And whistled as we paid down debt and prayed nothing broke down.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm in the pay-slowly camp. Reserves specialists alway say every HOA should be 100% funded. Or, at worst, 70-100% funded. I don't know how many HOAs in the US or in WA are 100% funded--I suspect maybe 20% or less. I do think I've read it somewhere.

What is your % fully funded JonD?

I'm also sure I've read that 30% of HOAs are less than 20-30% funded. I just can't look these up today, but there're pretty easy to find online. I do know that at 43% funded, my HOA has only a 10-12% risk of a special assessment. This does NOT scare banks off from making loans. You should be able to find a chart or graph that tells you your risk of a special assessment at 50% funded, which I personally see as pretty solid.

So in the real world of real HOAs, I would not say you're "severely underfunded"! RS's, though, so talk about your "ideal" funding level and that's it; 70-100% is an ideal.

Eight years ago we, because of a bad board previously, were only 18% fully funded. We started a gradual plan to do better and it has worked. Sadly, a new RS added about 20% more components to our previous study so our healthier 49% funded dropped.

Btw, "disasters" shouldn't be covered by reserves but by insurance. It is true, though, that things can break down prematurely like mechanical equipment (which we have a LOT of). Roads and roofs, I think are more predictable

One savings that I found was that Reserves should never be for anything that's going to last longer than 30 years. We had such a component and it was removed from our study.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Gordon,

If I was in your situation I think I would make an offer to any and all owners who object to increasing reserves: "Please take my place on the board so that whenever the board members get sued for breach of their legally-required fiduciary duties you will be the defendant instead of me."

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Gordon, you as a director are not required by law to follow the recommendations of any expert but you must act in good faith and use the judgement that nay reasonable person in a similar situation would use. I disagree with Larry that not following exactly what your reserves specialist wants will get you in legal trouble.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/27/2015 4:09 PM
I disagree with Larry that not following exactly what your reserves specialist wants will get you in legal trouble.


I was not suggesting that at all. The issue I saw was not whether to follow the recommendations of an expert but whether to fund reserves at all. From what Gordon wrote it appeared that his board has a history of failing to fund reserves at anything approaching a reasonable level.

I was, however, pointing out that as a board member Gordon has a legal obligation to the association that the couch-potatoes do not. If and when the lawsuits start to fly, board members may find that they have a personal liability for failing to fund the reserves.
GordonS1 (Washington)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks everyone so far for your comments. They have given me a lot of the perspective I was hoping to find here.

I am still very interested in the "percent funded" number from others' reserve studies. Has anyone else done a recent study? What was the result and what was the response from the board and the membership?

KerryL1: I'm not sure how you determine the "risk of special assessment" since this is not a component in our reserve study. My understanding is that the "fully funded balance" represents the total balance that should be present to offset the depreciation. It's a simple calculation:

Let's say an association only has one physical asset to maintain: a roof with a 30 year life expectancy, expected to cost $300,000 to replace. When the building is built and everyone buys their units, the roof has 30 years left and the reserve fund is zero. At this point, the reserve fund is fully funded (yes, even at $0!). After one year, the roof has gone through 1/30th of its life, and thus, there should be 1/30th of the replacement cost (or $10,000) in the reserve fund. At this point, if there is only $5,000, the association is 50% funded. If all owners have properly contributed and there is $10,000 in the reserve fund, it's fully funded. This continues for the lifespan of the roof - year 2 should have $20,000, and so on (with minor modifications to account for inflation of course).

The risk of a special assessment is closely correlated with less than 100% funding. Anything less than 100% means that the association has not saved enough so far. If large expenses are still a long way away, the association still has time to get on track. But if large expenses are imminent, there's not much time and a special assessment is more likely. The key point is that 100% fully funded represents an association that is "on track" or properly saving for its long term expenses.

The part that's become more and more clear to me is that lower funding levels are a comfy place to be because they represent current and past owners who have underpaid - their property has depreciated faster than they've contributed to reserves. They're dangerous because ultimately the expenses aren't avoidable and eventually someone will have to pay for them. Less than 100% funded is not a way of eliminating costs, it's just shifting them to future owners.

I'm not too worried about legal trouble. As a board we will advocate for what we believe to be the best plan. However, since the authorization to impose a special assessment or raise dues significantly rests solely with the membership, the membership as a whole must make a decision and bear the consequences.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Regardless how "minimal" it is possible to get away with deferring to legislated reserve "minimums", Directors are not doing any favours by postponing full adequacy or full sufficiency.

Once such is reached & maintained, there would be no need for anyone to moan about buying into past owners' underfunding. Until then as consumers get smarter, the market tends to quietly punish the sale prices of units lacking credibly adequate reserve funding. ( Below wasn't so quiet. * )

Maybe some Washington posters can jump in here. I notice that both Washington State's HOA law and Condo law respectively provide a matching immunity for Directors,officers and advisors for failures to ": Establish a reserve account; have a current reserve study prepared or updated in accordance with the requirements of this chapter; or make the reserve disclosures in accordance with this chapter." but NOT for failed adequate funding itself. ( HOA- RCW 64.38.085 condominiums - RCW 64.34.390 ).

No one in 40 years of condo law in our jurisdiction has been held liable for underfunding, much less even sued if unit sale prices are quietly being punished all the time.

What if the real punishment is a crisis with a large underfunded system or building envelop failure.

* A $15 M shocker hit a 275 unit multi-storey, 40 year old condo community here in Jan 2014 with only $200 K in the reserve fund. Imagine trying to sell . .
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, Gordon, i'm finding it very interesting that so few are revealing their HOA's % fully funded!

I do understand how reserves funding works and there are indeed charts prepared by folks in the reserves biz that show the % risk of a special assessment at various % fully funded levels.

Your own explanation is very nice and I'm guessing helpful to those who are trying grasp the concept of "fully funded."

My own board probably will vote to increase Owners' contribution to reserves a little. (Btw, BobD, the building envelopes in our twin high rises were recaulked with our construction defect funds in 2011 to the tune of about $250k) )

HOAs with few reserves components do have a sketchier future if their reserves are poorly funded. HOAs with lots of components to which they've been contributing have a much larger basket of funds to use if the cooling tower unexpectedly fails after 15 years instead of 20.

Larry, please note that Gordon stated their reserves are 50% fully funded, which realistically (instead of "ideally") would be considered OK.

Here's a quote from our reserves specialist's analysis of last month: "Comparing your Reserve Balance to your Fully Funded Balance indicates your Reserves are 43% Funded. Across the country approx 13% of associations in this range experience special assessments or deferred maintenance."

So we do want to improve our funding a little. But a 13% risk does not frighten lenders or buyers. I read a very nice article not long ago about this topic and I'll try to find it.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
We have never had an outside reserve study done, but after looking at some good examples I put together a fairly involved spreadsheet last year modelled on them. Our official reserve numbers do not include a "percent fully funded" calculation, but my own unofficial spreadsheet says we are, this year, 145% fully funded. While that sounds really good there's a major flaw in it.

We probably have 3 or 4 common elements that we SHOULD be reserving for, but we're not. If we put those things in there then our FF numbers go pretty much straight into the toilet. Fencing around the pool and tennis courts, street lights, sidewalk and driveway replacement, and clubhouse HVAC are all potentially big reserve components and I haven't even considered those yet. Not to mention we spoke the other day about a bid the board got a few years ago to re-do our entire 22-year-old sprinkler system. Half a million so there's not any serious consideration being given to that except to deal with it piecemeal as it breaks down (and punches holes in the budget).

I'm re-doing last year's spreadsheet, but it's still a low-priority item for the moment. I will do two alternatives, one just like last year with updated figures and another with some of the necessary, to me at least, additional components. Fun times. Nobody is going to want to deal with it.

Like many other places, my feeling is that assessments here have been kept artificailly low for many years and eventually those chickens come home to roost.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
There is a difference is "funded" levels.

If all you had was 10 pool heaters for 10 pools with a useful life of 10 years and costing $2K each, after inflation. Total cost would be $20K after 10 years, but if you put $200 each year for each heater, and after 5 years your reserve balance is $5k, your reserve study would show you 100% funded. When calculating replacement cost, I have seen studies leave out the labor to install. When replaced out playground and the reserve study showed only the cost to replace the item not the cost to demolish and re-install.

ND makes a great point that funding for reserves should always be ongoing and not done as a special assessment and for the exact reason they stated. A new homeowner should not have to find a special assessment, not disclosed, in their mailbox on the first day in their community.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/27/2015 4:09 PM
Gordon, you as a director are not required by law to follow the recommendations of any expert but you must act in good faith and use the judgement that nay reasonable person in a similar situation would use. I disagree with Larry that not following exactly what your reserves specialist wants will get you in legal trouble.

Actually Kerry, there is case law that supports the notice that Board have a fiduciary duty to fund their reserves. Six months or so ago, I sat in on a webinar hosted by an attorney (guess who?) and a Reserve Specialist. The attorney, AA, stated that the Board could have an issue with not following the advice of the analyst who prepared the study and which the association contracted and paid for, BUT did not follow their recommendation.

My opinion, as the reserve summary is required in the Annual Disclosures, if the association does not follow the recommendation it should be explained, not only for the homeowners, but the lenders who get the documents via an escrow package.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
KerryL1 (Cal ) : " . . . Btw, BobD, the building envelopes in our twin high rises were recaulked with our construction defect funds in 2011 to the tune of about $250k . .

Thanks. Hopefully good bang for buck. The $ 15M underfunding shocker (above) had been an nearly 1970's rental building converted to condos. Buying new from plans = risky. Buying old & maybe wildly underfunded =risky. For buyers & lenders what other single better way to guess future costs than a credible Reserve Fund ?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GordonS1 on 07/27/2015 10:53 AM
SheliaH: Yup, we are investigating whether our reserve specialist can attend our member meeting. He's an experienced voice of reason that can help homeowners understand that this is not just the board trying empty the pockets of the homeowners. Great idea about a banker/lender - I wonder how we might find someone who would be willing to come talk to a bunch of homeowners at an evening meeting.

If your community already has a corporate bank account, I'd start with that banker (this could be a good way to gauge how helpful they will be if they want to keep the association's business!) I've attended some CAI events which have had reps from banks who have departments who specialize in HOAs, so if you have a local chapter, that might be another source.

Since this would be an evening meeting, you may need to have the banker one night and the reserve specialist another evening if necessary. In addition to talking about reserves and how banks look at them, the banker could take it a step further and discuss HOA finances in general, talking about the nuts and bolts of HOA loans - and why it's better in the long run to reserve for future repairs.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think you're right, Richard, we have a duty to fund our reserves. But there is NO requirement in CA about what the % funded should be. an, to repeat, no lender is going to worry about 13% risk of special assessment even if they do read our 100 page study, which I doubt.

Please cite the exact words from the webinar--think I heard it too or read it and did not reach the same dire conclusion you do. As you well know all certified RSs will rec that HOAs be 70-130% fully funded. But we well know that that's not typical even if wise.

Just one reason, and it was the case in my HOA, developers underestimate the cost to replace components and they overestimate the useful lives of them. This makes the initial dues look lower!

Tell me, what % funded is the HOA where you live, Richard. What about the properties you manage?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/28/2015 11:01 AM
I think you're right, Richard, we have a duty to fund our reserves. But there is NO requirement in CA about what the % funded should be. an, to repeat, no lender is going to worry about 13% risk of special assessment even if they do read our 100 page study, which I doubt.

Please cite the exact words from the webinar--think I heard it too or read it and did not reach the same dire conclusion you do. As you well know all certified RSs will rec that HOAs be 70-130% fully funded. But we well know that that's not typical even if wise.

Just one reason, and it was the case in my HOA, developers underestimate the cost to replace components and they overestimate the useful lives of them. This makes the initial dues look lower!

Tell me, what % funded is the HOA where you live, Richard. What about the properties you manage?

Kerry,

I don't think realistically you can put a % number to where an association should be. Circumstances are all difference. High Rise condos, low rise condos, condo conversions, PUDs, townhomes. Small of association makes a big difference, the larger the association, generally, the better off financially they are. Small association have less bodies to spread the pain. Many directors don't want the responsibility of being the bearer of bad news. Earthquake insurance plays a big factor in this.

As far as the webinar, I need to find the presentation. In short A.A. stated that Boards were not fulfilling their fiduciary duties, IF they didn't heed the recommendations of the RS. As A.A. only represents HOA's and their Boards, he wouldn't be the one bringing charges against his bread and butter client.

As far as properties I was involved with were woefully underfunded, had to do special assessments, illegal mine you, and even though the reserve allocations were in their budgets, never contributed because the manager was too lazy to follow through. Hence, we parted company.

As far as the association I own a home in, well the RS from the same company has two different percentage year after year. Year ending 2013, 158% funded, 2014, 135%, but in looking at the actual study, a lot of inconsistencies.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
" Less than 100% funded is not a way of eliminating costs, it's just shifting them to future owners. "

YES!!!! It's an HOA board's "honest way" of ripping off future homeowners by underfunding their usage of amenities in the current time period.

My family could use your pool daily...fight HOA dues increases to build reserves and move away as the pool needs re-plastering. The buyer of my house gets stuck with bill for past usage of that plaster, if you will.

HOA reserves are strictly "pay as you go" - I've found dues payers don't mind dues increases for Reserves. It's when you can't explain why operating expenses are rising and dues payers can't see the property "operating" at a higher or better use.

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