Regular Posters having a one track mind

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

In order not to sidertrack a different thread, I thought I would start a new topic.

In that other thread the following statement was made:

Quote:

Posted By PamM6 on 07/25/2015 11:05 AM

The answers I read from people like Tim, the Jon's or John's and particularly Melissa cause me to press on. You all have a one track mind, which is "the board is right, the HO is wrong!"

This is a curious statement to me. The reason it's a curious statement is that I became involved with my Association because the Board was wrong. Therefore, I would never consider that Boards are always right. However, somehow this is what Pam has perceived.

I addressed my issue, fought my Associations BOD and made changes within my Association (which I and others think improved the Association) because of the assistance I received on this site. I know most of the regular posters became involved with their Association because of issues they saw or were directly involved with and did as I did, corrected the issue from within the Association.

Posters need to keep in mind that opinions and advice offered are based on what the original poster (OP) posts, our personal experiences and any research we may have done. An OP who has been living with the issue day in and day out, perhaps for several weeks, will sometimes forget that what is now common knowledge to them is not common knowledge to those on this site. Additionally, if there are specifics to an issue that one doesn't want to share (and there are certainly reasons not to share all specifics of an issue) we can only fill in the blanks with our own experiences which may simply be filling in the blanks incorrectly. As more details come out, the opinions and advice offered may change.

The other thing all posters (even the regulars) need to keep in mind is that everyone is human and tend to become defensive when they perceive an attack. When threatened, a human will go into a fight or flight mode. Some enter this mode more quickly then others. However, everyone does enter into that mode at some point. Therefore, it's best to always temper statements that are designed to attack vs. simply pointing out a different perspective.

Pam,

As I said, the statement you made is curious to me. I know that I certainly don't intend to give the impression you have taken from my posting, but I accept that this is what you perceived.

I know that you have no desire to give details of your issue for concerns of the name you previously posted under being discovered. You stated yourself in that other thread that you are also concerned about becoming angry with us for statements you may perceive as an attack, post out of anger and risk being reported to the moderators and banned as previously happened.

Therefore, could you provide examples from threads other than your own (under your previous posting name) that can provide a basis for that opinion?

I don't want the thread to become a source of division within the forum or the need to defend or attack someone else.

All issues have different perspectives and one perspective always looks to be correct to the individual who has it. I simply want the thread to be based on what created those perspectives (with links to threads when possible). If we can learn to see others perspectives on issues, and understand the reason why those perspectives are formed, we can all learn better ways to express our opinions and advice so they are heard and the perspective we want to share is seen.

Hopefully this thread can stay positive as a learning tool for everyone to make better posts.

However, we are all human.

Tim

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

It's a curious statement to me as well. I don't get the impression at all that "the board is right and the homeowner is wrong" is an unwavering diktat here. At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association. That's where the majority of problems start. There are many instances where a board has gone rogue and needs to be reined in, and people here are more than willing to admit that under appropriate circumstances.

From my point of view, people in the "all HOAs are evil" camp see themselves as victims of some injustice and will only see what they want to see. Any suggestion that they bear some responsibility for their plight falls on deaf ears. They want others to take care of their problems for them and reject the idea that they should be proactive in bringing about positive change.

A small number of people here are in that "all HOAs are evil" camp. They always seem to enter the room displaying their axe while announcing, "I have an axe and I'm here to grind it."

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 07/25/2015 9:32 PM
At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association.

I disagree with you 100%.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 07/25/2015 9:32 PM
It's a curious statement to me as well. I don't get the impression at all that "the board is right and the homeowner is wrong" is an unwavering diktat here. At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association. That's where the majority of problems start. There are many instances where a board has gone rogue and needs to be reined in, and people here are more than willing to admit that under appropriate circumstances.

From my point of view, people in the "all HOAs are evil" camp see themselves as victims of some injustice and will only see what they want to see. Any suggestion that they bear some responsibility for their plight falls on deaf ears. They want others to take care of their problems for them and reject the idea that they should be proactive in bringing about positive change.

A small number of people here are in that "all HOAs are evil" camp. They always seem to enter the room displaying their axe while announcing, "I have an axe and I'm here to grind it."

I disagree with you zero%.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/25/2015 10:28 PM

Posted By GenoS on 07/25/2015 9:32 PM
At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association.

I disagree with you 100%.

Why do you disagree? Now I am curious. Not to say that boards are always right or that the board members (me included) that post on this forum are always right, but a person who purchases a home in an HOA and does not understand the mortgage contract and the rest of the deed restrictions or riders included in the closing papers that indicate the house is located in an HOA run community should refrain from signing those papers. I have had a couple of homeowners that simply do not understand that they are forbidden to do certain things like run a daycare because of the HOA rules. Are you disagreeing on semantics? I will rephrase Geno's statement: The people understand what a contract is but do not understand what the contracts they are signing at the closing mean. Still disagree 100%?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Richard stated in another post that he did not believe lawyers should be responsible for writing the HOA documents. That is why people are unable to understand the rules. It is not done on a laymans level. Which if they were, then more people would not fall victim to HOA malfeasances... So yes he would disagree with you on your point.

The reality is the law believes it is the buyers responsibilty to be informed. Hence why the HOA articles of Incorporation and CC&Rs are PUBLIC documents. Some states require the seller to provide the rules. However, many states do not. You have to go to the county courthouse to get them. Your Realtor, lawyer, mortgage company, HOA, or any other party is not responsible for educating or providing the rules. You do not understand them? Hire a lawyer or ask questions. Sometimes the problem is you...

Former HOA President

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

My opinion as a semi-regular poster is that most of the regular's postings are respectful and informative. Sometimes the dissent is caused when posters attack, call others names, and antagonize rather than share a respectful opinion. Fortunately this does not happen that often. Occasionally a poster gets out of hand and needs "a knock it off." As Tim says we are human but we know when we have stepped out of line.

On a side note, please have some pity on us Iowans. The political saturation in my state has begun. Sigh!! I am sick of it already.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

There are BOD's that should tarred and feathered. There are owners that should be tarred and feathered. Now if asked which way I lean, I do lean toward the BOD.

One of the problems I have on this chat is someone that shows up and asks a question or asks for advice based on a set of delivered facts when quite often they have another agenda. It often goes from something simple like do we need to fill BOD vacancies to my BOD is useless and filled with cheaters, scumbags, senile old people, uneducated fools, cheaters, etc. Their issue(s) never was the BOD vacancy.

Many of us on here have seen and heard it all or at least most of it. Many you can see coming long before they get to their point(s). I am skeptical when one first starts posting. I ask myself where are they going? What is their end game?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 5:07 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/25/2015 10:28 PM

Posted By GenoS on 07/25/2015 9:32 PM
At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association.

I disagree with you 100%.

Why do you disagree? Now I am curious. Not to say that boards are always right or that the board members (me included) that post on this forum are always right, but a person who purchases a home in an HOA and does not understand the mortgage contract and the rest of the deed restrictions or riders included in the closing papers that indicate the house is located in an HOA run community should refrain from signing those papers. I have had a couple of homeowners that simply do not understand that they are forbidden to do certain things like run a daycare because of the HOA rules. Are you disagreeing on semantics? I will rephrase Geno's statement: The people understand what a contract is but do not understand what the contracts they are signing at the closing mean. Still disagree 100%?

My disagreement is with the statement I highlighted.

I consider myself a pretty smart person and having come from an "industry" that was financing many properties inside HOA's, thought I knew what an HOA was. As many others later found out, I was wrong. Once you go behind the gates, you lose your freedoms. I have a better chance of fighting a speeding ticket than a fine for not placing my trash cans behind my fence. Some if those fines are as much as a speeding ticket, go figure.

Geno, if a buyer is suppose to understand and educate themselves of the contract between a HOA and homeowners, should we not demand that the Board members running these corporations have some sort of basic training. I know Florida is supposedly trying to do this. Before you say it, yes it will diminish the pool of volunteers.

If we blame them for not knowing what they were getting themselves into, do we blame them for the crappy loans they got themselves into? Not, in that case, lets blame the banker.

Allison, you asked if the question was rephrased, would the answer be the same? I believe people have the concept of what a contract is. Did they know what they were signing, HELL NO.

My first introduction to my HOA. Got a pre-lien letter sent to me from the management company because, as it turned out, the escrow company didn't know where to send the assessments collected at closing to. No welcome package, no welcome to the wonderful world of HOA living, no you are delinquent, deadbeat. So I got into this business to help change some of those negative perceptions.

Don't get me wrong, HOA's are a great thing, but need MUCH work to improve.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/26/2015 7:22 AM
There are BOD's that should tarred and feathered. There are owners that should be tarred and feathered. Now if asked which way I lean, I do lean toward the BOD.

One of the problems I have on this chat is someone that shows up and asks a question or asks for advice based on a set of delivered facts when quite often they have another agenda. It often goes from something simple like do we need to fill BOD vacancies to my BOD is useless and filled with cheaters, scumbags, senile old people, uneducated fools, cheaters, etc. Their issue(s) never was the BOD vacancy.

Many of us on here have seen and heard it all or at least most of it. Many you can see coming long before they get to their point(s). I am skeptical when one first starts posting. I ask myself where are they going? What is their end game?

Bingo John well said!

Yes, seems some who pull into this site driving their version of the crazy train often can't be bothered presenting an accurate or for that matter truthful representation of the facts.

Now some are willing to operate with just the evidence provided and have suggested questioning the posters here for details is " out of line" well I see that line of behavior to be limited. If you truly want opinions and information than present the truth. If you can only provide your version or hide the facts under multiple IDs or misrepresentations in my view you have no place here. If you can't provide the honest truth should tell your about the strength of your position. And please drop the "rape" analogies perhaps such sensationalism works on the slow and limited but rest assured that is a small audience for the simpleminded. And IF that is truly how you expect us to believe you feel then why do you return?

And of course when the latest engineer pulls their crazy train into the station we have resident posters who can't grab a seat in the front of the car hoping this god will take them to the promised land. Folks who have never served a day on any board. Folks who could never get elected to any board. And folks who got on the board it became to tough and they quit. Just to damn tough.

The thought some of the regular posters all live their lives in favor of HOAs and to group us all into that box is ignorant nonsense. I removed two board presidents, an entire board, two MCs, one lawyer, and multiple service providers to imply I have a blind spot to needed change is stupidity at its lowest level. Just in most cases those who post and whine about how the big bad board did them wrong well they don' have the balls, brains or willingness to get done what needs to be done.

Now we have this move to seek the help of politicians because politicians always offer solutions! Are you kidding? Many here have suggested due to personal experience working within the system in the long run is more effective and less costly to the property you claim to wish to protect. My removing two board presidents cost nothing. Just effort, time and a willingness to do the hard, dirty work necessary. Going to politicians in the hopes they might punish the board, remove the board, sanction the board, prevent them from serving, requiring certifications, is a fool's mission. In all the years I have served on our board, posted to this site, I have not heard one time some new brilliant set of HOA governance was passed and cured the ills of the HOA world. If you in involve politicians you end up with more laws, regulations and the need for the legal system to be involved. Or you end up with situations like California and Florida where in my opinion feel good efforts have come to hinder common sense operation. Whenever lawyers tel, you how to do things you cost just went up and you are in serious trouble.

The multiple personality Pam recently shared her views she presented to her local representatives. She "thinks" CAI needs to be reviewed because she does not share their views. On what grounds does she think the government can , should or will do so. CAI is a private organization not subject to approval by the government but because Pam she things differently big brother should take them on.
And of course the board should be required to be educated, certified and agree to abide by Pam's view of HOA governance. How much education will Pam be required to have before she can demand her views are the only views that matter? Any?

In my world if you have a problem with dog crap in your own backyard best to solve that problem first before you decide to take on the issue nationwide.
If you can't muster the effort required to clean up around your own house and community chances are running to the state capital, and hoping to find someone who should do that job for you are slim and none. Seems like spending 7 hours to present a 2 minute speech that falls on deaf, vote seeking ears is less productive than actually working for change locally.

As John states, I have heard every story, listened to every excuse, fielded every out of line demand. Not hard to read between the lines when the next ZEALOT who briefly hides their desire to bunch every HOA and every HOA board member into some evil group of "fascists" based on their distasteful experience on their one property. Let's not forget the board members are owners too. Let's not forget in most cases they recieved enough votes to win a position on the board. Something in many cases YOU could never do! Despite how smart you are, how much more you clearly know, and how it was done at you last HOA property. Amazes me how simpleminded folks come to believe they know how best to do a job they have never done!

So whether you are Mike from Ma. The clown who sued his property four times, promised to take the homes of board members as punishment for their acts, and reform HOA governance worldwide. In the end Mile the legal wizard lost all court cases.

Amin from Texas who saw HOAs as a cancer, who claimed to have found proof of insurance fraud but was afraid to visit the PM to review the records.

Ott who sued her property was awarded a minimal amount. Claimed some great moral victory which changed nothing.

Sam Judie, from Arizona who served on his board quit, and then began a crusade as an anti-HOA soldier to change the world through spreading websites and written propoganda.

Chris from New Jersey came to this site claimed her Baird was "rouge". Come to find out she too filed a lawsuit, she ceased the payment of her own common charges and when the court ruled against her she sued a sitting judge! Now Chris never bothered to provide any of this information because that might have put her in an irrational, over the top, unreasonable light.

And most recently Walter who filed a $10 small claims action over legal charges he deemed to be improper by a sitting board member. Although he allowed the board to cover the costs HE HIMSELF ran up using the services of the HOA attorney. When asked, Walter provided HIS version of the details all of which pointed to his righteousness in battling board corruption and illegally. When Walter was asked to post the ACTUAL LEGAL DOCUMENTS to provide the truth about the circumstances he represented. His limitations suddenly came to light along with his in ability to cut and paste a document. Rather simple act for most. Leaving us to accept Walter's version of reality which in the end was thrown out by the court on its face. Without any consideration.

In each case these crazy train engineers all pull into this site looking for passengers and supporters. In some cases spreading God's word. Some here are always to eager to climb aboard in the hopes they will be brought to the promised land. Where their version of reality exists. Where they get their way with no effort. Where what they have found impossible to achieve will be done for them. Where they can reclaim some of their own self respect back after being unsuccessfully in their own efforts.

Not once has the crazy train even left the station. The engineers all dry up and shrink away after realizing the audience they expected to find is not as gullible and naive as they needed. After their plans for world domination land them flat on their faces. Where their best plans accomplish NOTHING.

So to the folks like Pam who come here and post under multiple names pretending to be someone they are not, liken this site to being raped and return on their own, post lies and misrepresentations, hold out the possibility their big case which " looks good" which MIGHT become newsworthy should be supported while refusing to give any details understand you are just another in a small line of anti-HOA zealots who use the words, terms, and phrases of others trying to drum up supporters with limited understanding, limited experience and an axe to grind against their own HOAs. Although we have a few folks here willing to jump on any train that pulls in most here aren't buying the nonsense you are selling. The fact is you can't even sell it on your own property! And rather than examine YOUR OWN part in any of this all you can find is blame to place on others.
You were not banned by Tim as you claimed and continue to claim. You were not raped when the door out was a click away, and you return again under another username. Enough with the BS and lies. Or perhaps that is all you have........

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 10:26 AM

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 5:07 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/25/2015 10:28 PM

Posted By GenoS on 07/25/2015 9:32 PM
At the end of the day I think people who do not understand what a contract is should refrain from purchasing real estate in a community under the control of a homeowners' association.

I disagree with you 100%.

Why do you disagree? Now I am curious. Not to say that boards are always right or that the board members (me included) that post on this forum are always right, but a person who purchases a home in an HOA and does not understand the mortgage contract and the rest of the deed restrictions or riders included in the closing papers that indicate the house is located in an HOA run community should refrain from signing those papers. I have had a couple of homeowners that simply do not understand that they are forbidden to do certain things like run a daycare because of the HOA rules. Are you disagreeing on semantics? I will rephrase Geno's statement: The people understand what a contract is but do not understand what the contracts they are signing at the closing mean. Still disagree 100%?

My disagreement is with the statement I highlighted.

I consider myself a pretty smart person and having come from an "industry" that was financing many properties inside HOA's, thought I knew what an HOA was. As many others later found out, I was wrong. Once you go behind the gates, you lose your freedoms. I have a better chance of fighting a speeding ticket than a fine for not placing my trash cans behind my fence. Some if those fines are as much as a speeding ticket, go figure.

Geno, if a buyer is suppose to understand and educate themselves of the contract between a HOA and homeowners, should we not demand that the Board members running these corporations have some sort of basic training. I know Florida is supposedly trying to do this. Before you say it, yes it will diminish the pool of volunteers.

If we blame them for not knowing what they were getting themselves into, do we blame them for the crappy loans they got themselves into? Not, in that case, lets blame the banker.

Allison, you asked if the question was rephrased, would the answer be the same? I believe people have the concept of what a contract is. Did they know what they were signing, HELL NO.

My first introduction to my HOA. Got a pre-lien letter sent to me from the management company because, as it turned out, the escrow company didn't know where to send the assessments collected at closing to. No welcome package, no welcome to the wonderful world of HOA living, no you are delinquent, deadbeat. So I got into this business to help change some of those negative perceptions.

Don't get me wrong, HOA's are a great thing, but need MUCH work to improve.

OK so under the best of circumstances, when the buyer understands the concept of contracts and even know what an HOA is, yes-there can be some really bad HOA board members that do lots of things wrong and property managers that make things even worse. That is under the best of circumstances, so certainly if a buyer does not understand the concept of contracts and what an HOA is then yes, I think you do agree that the buyers should refrain from purchasing the HOA home at least until an attorney or someone in the know can explain in great detail what their lives will be like living in the HOA.

The interview process is a good idea in some aspects because it allows the board to talk with the potential homeowner about HOA life and remember, the interview goes both ways. But for many HOA's, the interview process is too cumbersome. I think I would like to make available to potential purchasers, a document that gives a good overview of the rules, responsibilities and benefits of home ownership in my HOA. I get calls from realtors all the time asking about pets and other things that I could put in a one page document and the homeowner could leave for folks to take when they view the house with the realtor. At least passing on some information to potential homeowners would help them make a more informed purchase. I do not believe I live in one of those terrible HOA's as you describe, however; I know some of my residents never read any part of the documents even though our purchase application asks them to sign a confirmation that they did read them. Some of my residents insist dues for the entire year were paid at closing (has never happened even once in all my years here), landscaping on their entire property is paid for with dues (only front yard and common areas), there is a community club house and pool (there isn't) that as president of the HOA I am a paid employee (yes, a resident asked 'what do you do for the money you earn here, I never see you except at night' and my answer: I have a full time day job, my volunteer board position here is at night and weekends). I think a lot of misconceptions and realtor miscommunications could be addressed through a 1 page information sheet. I think there are 2 things we have to work on.... making good board members and making good residents. I think an information sheet could help to make a good resident.

By the way, I already have a Welcome Packet for new residents that contains all the information needed but they get this AFTER the purchase.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 10:47 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/26/2015 7:22 AM
There are BOD's that should tarred and feathered. There are owners that should be tarred and feathered. Now if asked which way I lean, I do lean toward the BOD.

One of the problems I have on this chat is someone that shows up and asks a question or asks for advice based on a set of delivered facts when quite often they have another agenda. It often goes from something simple like do we need to fill BOD vacancies to my BOD is useless and filled with cheaters, scumbags, senile old people, uneducated fools, cheaters, etc. Their issue(s) never was the BOD vacancy.

Many of us on here have seen and heard it all or at least most of it. Many you can see coming long before they get to their point(s). I am skeptical when one first starts posting. I ask myself where are they going? What is their end game?

Bingo John well said!

Yes, seems some who pull into this site driving their version of the crazy train often can't be bothered presenting an accurate or for that matter truthful representation of the facts.

Now some are willing to operate with just the evidence provided and have suggested questioning the posters here for details is " out of line" well I see that line of behavior to be limited. If you truly want opinions and information than present the truth. If you can only provide your version or hide the facts under multiple IDs or misrepresentations in my view you have no place here. If you can't provide the honest truth should tell your about the strength of your position. And please drop the "rape" analogies perhaps such sensationalism works on the slow and limited but rest assured that is a small audience for the simpleminded. And IF that is truly how you expect us to believe you feel then why do you return?

And of course when the latest engineer pulls their crazy train into the station we have resident posters who can't grab a seat in the front of the car hoping this god will take them to the promised land. Folks who have never served a day on any board. Folks who could never get elected to any board. And folks who got on the board it became to tough and they quit. Just to damn tough.

The thought some of the regular posters all live their lives in favor of HOAs and to group us all into that box is ignorant nonsense. I removed two board presidents, an entire board, two MCs, one lawyer, and multiple service providers to imply I have a blind spot to needed change is stupidity at its lowest level. Just in most cases those who post and whine about how the big bad board did them wrong well they don' have the balls, brains or willingness to get done what needs to be done.

Now we have this move to seek the help of politicians because politicians always offer solutions! Are you kidding? Many here have suggested due to personal experience working within the system in the long run is more effective and less costly to the property you claim to wish to protect. My removing two board presidents cost nothing. Just effort, time and a willingness to do the hard, dirty work necessary. Going to politicians in the hopes they might punish the board, remove the board, sanction the board, prevent them from serving, requiring certifications, is a fool's mission. In all the years I have served on our board, posted to this site, I have not heard one time some new brilliant set of HOA governance was passed and cured the ills of the HOA world. If you in involve politicians you end up with more laws, regulations and the need for the legal system to be involved. Or you end up with situations like California and Florida where in my opinion feel good efforts have come to hinder common sense operation. Whenever lawyers tel, you how to do things you cost just went up and you are in serious trouble.

The multiple personality Pam recently shared her views she presented to her local representatives. She "thinks" CAI needs to be reviewed because she does not share their views. On what grounds does she think the government can , should or will do so. CAI is a private organization not subject to approval by the government but because Pam she things differently big brother should take them on.
And of course the board should be required to be educated, certified and agree to abide by Pam's view of HOA governance. How much education will Pam be required to have before she can demand her views are the only views that matter? Any?

In my world if you have a problem with dog crap in your own backyard best to solve that problem first before you decide to take on the issue nationwide.
If you can't muster the effort required to clean up around your own house and community chances are running to the state capital, and hoping to find someone who should do that job for you are slim and none. Seems like spending 7 hours to present a 2 minute speech that falls on deaf, vote seeking ears is less productive than actually working for change locally.

As John states, I have heard every story, listened to every excuse, fielded every out of line demand. Not hard to read between the lines when the next ZEALOT who briefly hides their desire to bunch every HOA and every HOA board member into some evil group of "fascists" based on their distasteful experience on their one property. Let's not forget the board members are owners too. Let's not forget in most cases they recieved enough votes to win a position on the board. Something in many cases YOU could never do! Despite how smart you are, how much more you clearly know, and how it was done at you last HOA property. Amazes me how simpleminded folks come to believe they know how best to do a job they have never done!

So whether you are Mike from Ma. The clown who sued his property four times, promised to take the homes of board members as punishment for their acts, and reform HOA governance worldwide. In the end Mile the legal wizard lost all court cases.

Amin from Texas who saw HOAs as a cancer, who claimed to have found proof of insurance fraud but was afraid to visit the PM to review the records.

Ott who sued her property was awarded a minimal amount. Claimed some great moral victory which changed nothing.

Sam Judie, from Arizona who served on his board quit, and then began a crusade as an anti-HOA soldier to change the world through spreading websites and written propoganda.

Chris from New Jersey came to this site claimed her Baird was "rouge". Come to find out she too filed a lawsuit, she ceased the payment of her own common charges and when the court ruled against her she sued a sitting judge! Now Chris never bothered to provide any of this information because that might have put her in an irrational, over the top, unreasonable light.

And most recently Walter who filed a $10 small claims action over legal charges he deemed to be improper by a sitting board member. Although he allowed the board to cover the costs HE HIMSELF ran up using the services of the HOA attorney. When asked, Walter provided HIS version of the details all of which pointed to his righteousness in battling board corruption and illegally. When Walter was asked to post the ACTUAL LEGAL DOCUMENTS to provide the truth about the circumstances he represented. His limitations suddenly came to light along with his in ability to cut and paste a document. Rather simple act for most. Leaving us to accept Walter's version of reality which in the end was thrown out by the court on its face. Without any consideration.

In each case these crazy train engineers all pull into this site looking for passengers and supporters. In some cases spreading God's word. Some here are always to eager to climb aboard in the hopes they will be brought to the promised land. Where their version of reality exists. Where they get their way with no effort. Where what they have found impossible to achieve will be done for them. Where they can reclaim some of their own self respect back after being unsuccessfully in their own efforts.

Not once has the crazy train even left the station. The engineers all dry up and shrink away after realizing the audience they expected to find is not as gullible and naive as they needed. After their plans for world domination land them flat on their faces. Where their best plans accomplish NOTHING.

So to the folks like Pam who come here and post under multiple names pretending to be someone they are not, liken this site to being raped and return on their own, post lies and misrepresentations, hold out the possibility their big case which " looks good" which MIGHT become newsworthy should be supported while refusing to give any details understand you are just another in a small line of anti-HOA zealots who use the words, terms, and phrases of others trying to drum up supporters with limited understanding, limited experience and an axe to grind against their own HOAs. Although we have a few folks here willing to jump on any train that pulls in most here aren't buying the nonsense you are selling. The fact is you can't even sell it on your own property! And rather than examine YOUR OWN part in any of this all you can find is blame to place on others.
You were not banned by Tim as you claimed and continue to claim. You were not raped when the door out was a click away, and you return again under another username. Enough with the BS and lies. Or perhaps that is all you have........

JonD1,
YOU are the poster here who sows the most discord on this site and that is the truth. All one has to do is read the above post to confirm it.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Allison

I believe there needs to be better education in regards to HOA living, as it is now almost mandatory, especially if you are considering buying new(er) property.

I would NEVER allow a Board to be in charge of interviewing prospecting homeowners into their community. I see nothing but problems and legal challenges.

As an owner of a management company, I have welcome packets as part of the escrow process and send it out after the sale closes. I have a one page sign out sheet that no one has ever returned.

Some states provide that an attorney is the closing agent. In California, half the state operates with a title company the lower half with either title company or more commonly an escrow office. Closing documents are done by notaries, who quite frankly, are not that knowledgeable about the documents they are having clients sign, just my experience.

Information sheets do no good. CAI provides them and they make nice glossy wallpaper. Education is the key and just to the residents, after all, they are also the Board members to be. As a management company, we provide free training for Board members and homeowners wanting to become Board members.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BanksS on 07/26/2015 11:25 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 10:47 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/26/2015 7:22 AM
There are BOD's that should tarred and feathered. There are owners that should be tarred and feathered. Now if asked which way I lean, I do lean toward the BOD.

One of the problems I have on this chat is someone that shows up and asks a question or asks for advice based on a set of delivered facts when quite often they have another agenda. It often goes from something simple like do we need to fill BOD vacancies to my BOD is useless and filled with cheaters, scumbags, senile old people, uneducated fools, cheaters, etc. Their issue(s) never was the BOD vacancy.

Many of us on here have seen and heard it all or at least most of it. Many you can see coming long before they get to their point(s). I am skeptical when one first starts posting. I ask myself where are they going? What is their end game?

Bingo John well said!

Yes, seems some who pull into this site driving their version of the crazy train often can't be bothered presenting an accurate or for that matter truthful representation of the facts.

Now some are willing to operate with just the evidence provided and have suggested questioning the posters here for details is " out of line" well I see that line of behavior to be limited. If you truly want opinions and information than present the truth. If you can only provide your version or hide the facts under multiple IDs or misrepresentations in my view you have no place here. If you can't provide the honest truth should tell your about the strength of your position. And please drop the "rape" analogies perhaps such sensationalism works on the slow and limited but rest assured that is a small audience for the simpleminded. And IF that is truly how you expect us to believe you feel then why do you return?

And of course when the latest engineer pulls their crazy train into the station we have resident posters who can't grab a seat in the front of the car hoping this god will take them to the promised land. Folks who have never served a day on any board. Folks who could never get elected to any board. And folks who got on the board it became to tough and they quit. Just to damn tough.

The thought some of the regular posters all live their lives in favor of HOAs and to group us all into that box is ignorant nonsense. I removed two board presidents, an entire board, two MCs, one lawyer, and multiple service providers to imply I have a blind spot to needed change is stupidity at its lowest level. Just in most cases those who post and whine about how the big bad board did them wrong well they don' have the balls, brains or willingness to get done what needs to be done.

Now we have this move to seek the help of politicians because politicians always offer solutions! Are you kidding? Many here have suggested due to personal experience working within the system in the long run is more effective and less costly to the property you claim to wish to protect. My removing two board presidents cost nothing. Just effort, time and a willingness to do the hard, dirty work necessary. Going to politicians in the hopes they might punish the board, remove the board, sanction the board, prevent them from serving, requiring certifications, is a fool's mission. In all the years I have served on our board, posted to this site, I have not heard one time some new brilliant set of HOA governance was passed and cured the ills of the HOA world. If you in involve politicians you end up with more laws, regulations and the need for the legal system to be involved. Or you end up with situations like California and Florida where in my opinion feel good efforts have come to hinder common sense operation. Whenever lawyers tel, you how to do things you cost just went up and you are in serious trouble.

The multiple personality Pam recently shared her views she presented to her local representatives. She "thinks" CAI needs to be reviewed because she does not share their views. On what grounds does she think the government can , should or will do so. CAI is a private organization not subject to approval by the government but because Pam she things differently big brother should take them on.
And of course the board should be required to be educated, certified and agree to abide by Pam's view of HOA governance. How much education will Pam be required to have before she can demand her views are the only views that matter? Any?

In my world if you have a problem with dog crap in your own backyard best to solve that problem first before you decide to take on the issue nationwide.
If you can't muster the effort required to clean up around your own house and community chances are running to the state capital, and hoping to find someone who should do that job for you are slim and none. Seems like spending 7 hours to present a 2 minute speech that falls on deaf, vote seeking ears is less productive than actually working for change locally.

As John states, I have heard every story, listened to every excuse, fielded every out of line demand. Not hard to read between the lines when the next ZEALOT who briefly hides their desire to bunch every HOA and every HOA board member into some evil group of "fascists" based on their distasteful experience on their one property. Let's not forget the board members are owners too. Let's not forget in most cases they recieved enough votes to win a position on the board. Something in many cases YOU could never do! Despite how smart you are, how much more you clearly know, and how it was done at you last HOA property. Amazes me how simpleminded folks come to believe they know how best to do a job they have never done!

So whether you are Mike from Ma. The clown who sued his property four times, promised to take the homes of board members as punishment for their acts, and reform HOA governance worldwide. In the end Mile the legal wizard lost all court cases.

Amin from Texas who saw HOAs as a cancer, who claimed to have found proof of insurance fraud but was afraid to visit the PM to review the records.

Ott who sued her property was awarded a minimal amount. Claimed some great moral victory which changed nothing.

Sam Judie, from Arizona who served on his board quit, and then began a crusade as an anti-HOA soldier to change the world through spreading websites and written propoganda.

Chris from New Jersey came to this site claimed her Baird was "rouge". Come to find out she too filed a lawsuit, she ceased the payment of her own common charges and when the court ruled against her she sued a sitting judge! Now Chris never bothered to provide any of this information because that might have put her in an irrational, over the top, unreasonable light.

And most recently Walter who filed a $10 small claims action over legal charges he deemed to be improper by a sitting board member. Although he allowed the board to cover the costs HE HIMSELF ran up using the services of the HOA attorney. When asked, Walter provided HIS version of the details all of which pointed to his righteousness in battling board corruption and illegally. When Walter was asked to post the ACTUAL LEGAL DOCUMENTS to provide the truth about the circumstances he represented. His limitations suddenly came to light along with his in ability to cut and paste a document. Rather simple act for most. Leaving us to accept Walter's version of reality which in the end was thrown out by the court on its face. Without any consideration.

In each case these crazy train engineers all pull into this site looking for passengers and supporters. In some cases spreading God's word. Some here are always to eager to climb aboard in the hopes they will be brought to the promised land. Where their version of reality exists. Where they get their way with no effort. Where what they have found impossible to achieve will be done for them. Where they can reclaim some of their own self respect back after being unsuccessfully in their own efforts.

Not once has the crazy train even left the station. The engineers all dry up and shrink away after realizing the audience they expected to find is not as gullible and naive as they needed. After their plans for world domination land them flat on their faces. Where their best plans accomplish NOTHING.

So to the folks like Pam who come here and post under multiple names pretending to be someone they are not, liken this site to being raped and return on their own, post lies and misrepresentations, hold out the possibility their big case which " looks good" which MIGHT become newsworthy should be supported while refusing to give any details understand you are just another in a small line of anti-HOA zealots who use the words, terms, and phrases of others trying to drum up supporters with limited understanding, limited experience and an axe to grind against their own HOAs. Although we have a few folks here willing to jump on any train that pulls in most here aren't buying the nonsense you are selling. The fact is you can't even sell it on your own property! And rather than examine YOUR OWN part in any of this all you can find is blame to place on others.
You were not banned by Tim as you claimed and continue to claim. You were not raped when the door out was a click away, and you return again under another username. Enough with the BS and lies. Or perhaps that is all you have........

JonD1,
YOU are the poster here who sows the most discord on this site and that is the truth. All one has to do is read the above post to confirm it.

And you continue to come this site never having served on any board. Hoping to recover from the ill feelings and lasting label of having been sued by your own HOA. To whine about thousands people who serve on boards you know nothing about. Always willing to see the opinions of folks like Mike, Frank, Pam, Amanda as valid because misery, laziness and playing the victim is the role you are most comfortable with.
If it's a pity party you are looking to have Banks is the person to invite.
As as far as you distaste for the election process now occurring in your home state of Iowa. I seem to remember last time around Iowa voted for Rick Santorum who now sits at less than 1% in the pools this year. Talking about boarding the crazy train!

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

I agree with Banks. But unlike Banks, I have served as President of my HOA and have managed 50 others. Saying most of your remarks are condescending would be putting it mildly.

You sees to always defend Boards and their behavior, yet didn't you have an issue with your own Board years ago and what did it take you 5 years to make any kind of meaningful changes.

I often wonder, how bad were they really?

Just my 0.02.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 11:31 AM
Allison

I believe there needs to be better education in regards to HOA living, as it is now almost mandatory, especially if you are considering buying new(er) property.

I would NEVER allow a Board to be in charge of interviewing prospecting homeowners into their community. I see nothing but problems and legal challenges.

As an owner of a management company, I have welcome packets as part of the escrow process and send it out after the sale closes. I have a one page sign out sheet that no one has ever returned.

Some states provide that an attorney is the closing agent. In California, half the state operates with a title company the lower half with either title company or more commonly an escrow office. Closing documents are done by notaries, who quite frankly, are not that knowledgeable about the documents they are having clients sign, just my experience.

Information sheets do no good. CAI provides them and they make nice glossy wallpaper. Education is the key and just to the residents, after all, they are also the Board members to be. As a management company, we provide free training for Board members and homeowners wanting to become Board members.

The CAI provides general information, who provides the specific information for that particular community? How does the buyer get the information or a sense of what home ownership is like in that community without more specific information? I do not do interviews, I agree they can be problematic. When I purchased my first home in NY not in an HOA community, I drove there after becoming interested in the house, scoped out the neighborhood and watched my potential neighbors interact with each other and spoke to them about living there. HOA buyers cannot do that. How do we get buyers to understand what they are buying into? The attorney explaining it at closing is too late, in my opinion. I would like buyers to consider this prior to putting in an offer on the house.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 10:47 AM

Sam Judie, from Arizona

Actually, Sam was from Nevada.
As we have all learned from the news, Nevada did have major issues.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/25/2015 5:15 PM

I don't want the thread to become a source of division within the forum or the need to defend or attack someone else.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 12:20 PM

yet didn't you have an issue with your own Board years ago and what did it take you 5 years to make any kind of meaningful changes.

I often wonder, how bad were they really?

I can only speak for me.

It took three years for me to start to make changes.
It took four years before I was elected to the Board (but served on the Architectural Committee before that).

It took that time to actually educate the membership and rally enough support to make the changes that needed to be made. When an issue doesn't affect someone directly, it can take time to educate them enough to see how not addressing the issue now, could affect them in the future.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 12:21 PM [emphasis added]

When I purchased my first home in NY not in an HOA community, I drove there after becoming interested in the house, scoped out the neighborhood and watched my potential neighbors interact with each other and spoke to them about living there. HOA buyers cannot do that.

Why not?

I did the exact same thing you did when I purchased my home and it is in an HOA.
Unless it's a gated community, there is nothing really preventing someone from doing that.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 12:21 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 11:31 AM
Allison

I believe there needs to be better education in regards to HOA living, as it is now almost mandatory, especially if you are considering buying new(er) property.

I would NEVER allow a Board to be in charge of interviewing prospecting homeowners into their community. I see nothing but problems and legal challenges.

As an owner of a management company, I have welcome packets as part of the escrow process and send it out after the sale closes. I have a one page sign out sheet that no one has ever returned.

Some states provide that an attorney is the closing agent. In California, half the state operates with a title company the lower half with either title company or more commonly an escrow office. Closing documents are done by notaries, who quite frankly, are not that knowledgeable about the documents they are having clients sign, just my experience.

Information sheets do no good. CAI provides them and they make nice glossy wallpaper. Education is the key and just to the residents, after all, they are also the Board members to be. As a management company, we provide free training for Board members and homeowners wanting to become Board members.

The CAI provides general information, who provides the specific information for that particular community? How does the buyer get the information or a sense of what home ownership is like in that community without more specific information? I do not do interviews, I agree they can be problematic. When I purchased my first home in NY not in an HOA community, I drove there after becoming interested in the house, scoped out the neighborhood and watched my potential neighbors interact with each other and spoke to them about living there. HOA buyers cannot do that. How do we get buyers to understand what they are buying into? The attorney explaining it at closing is too late, in my opinion. I would like buyers to consider this prior to putting in an offer on the house.

Homeowners need to know HOA living in a general sense so they can then go into their own communities with the right questions to ask in that specific community. I am working on a program through my local chapter of CAI. Again, unless you made education in some form mandatory, you can't get them to drink.

Back around 2005-2006, there was a specific loan program that had partial funding from a local communities that required completion of a class outlining the program and any implication it might have.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/26/2015 12:38 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 12:20 PM

yet didn't you have an issue with your own Board years ago and what did it take you 5 years to make any kind of meaningful changes.

I often wonder, how bad were they really?

I can only speak for me.

It took three years for me to start to make changes.
It took four years before I was elected to the Board (but served on the Architectural Committee before that).

It took that time to actually educate the membership and rally enough support to make the changes that needed to be made. When an issue doesn't affect someone directly, it can take time to educate them enough to see how not addressing the issue now, could affect them in the future.

It didn't take me take that long, but then I can be short on patience. I could have done it sooner, but I had to wait for those damn 30 day comment periods, 30 window to vote, both for Bylaws changes and two elections. Petty little things like that took up most of the time..LOL

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/26/2015 10:26 AM
I consider myself a pretty smart person and having come from an "industry" that was financing many properties inside HOA's, thought I knew what an HOA was. As many others later found out, I was wrong. Once you go behind the gates, you lose your freedoms. I have a better chance of fighting a speeding ticket than a fine for not placing my trash cans behind my fence. Some if those fines are as much as a speeding ticket, go figure.

Geno, if a buyer is suppose to understand and educate themselves of the contract between a HOA and homeowners, should we not demand that the Board members running these corporations have some sort of basic training. I know Florida is supposedly trying to do this. Before you say it, yes it will diminish the pool of volunteers.

If we blame them for not knowing what they were getting themselves into, do we blame them for the crappy loans they got themselves into? Not, in that case, lets blame the banker.

Fair enough. I think "losing your freedoms" a little strong, "giving up some rights" might be a better way to put it, but that's what all contracts are: you give up something to get something. If I sign a 2-year cellphone contract then not paying is not an option. I've given up the right to keep that $100 (or whatever amount) in my pocket every month. There's give and take, you give up some things to gain others.

In an HOA you give up the right to paint your house lime green but you gain the right to not have to put up with a neighbor fixing junk cars on his lot. Some people will complain that they should have the right to paint their house lime green. There's a tradeoff. People who do not understand that shouldn't buy in an HOA. So yeah, educating potential buyers should be a thing. I agree that board members should be held to a higher standard and I'm in favor of states enacting penalty clauses to encourage that. Florida does have some decent laws on the books in this area, but who ya gonna call when your board has a meeting without giving the full 48-hour notice? The lack of enforcement is a problem.

As for homeowners who got themselves into some crappy loans, there's plenty of blame to go around there and yes, I do put a large share of the blame on someone making $20,000 a year buying an $800,000 home during the bubble. If they were unable to recognize they were taking on a debt they could never hope to repay, they bear a large share of the responsibility in my opinion. Not all, but a significant share nonetheless.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

07/26 8:54p, I agree with what Geno wrote:

"Fair enough. I think "losing your freedoms" a little strong, "giving up some rights" might be a better way to put it, but that's what all contracts are: you give up something to get something. If I sign a 2-year cellphone contract then not paying is not an option. I've given up the right to keep that $100 (or whatever amount) in my pocket every month. There's give and take, you give up some things to gain others.

In an HOA you give up the right to paint your house lime green but you gain the right to not have to put up with a neighbor fixing junk cars on his lot. Some people will complain that they should have the right to paint their house lime green. There's a tradeoff. People who do not understand that shouldn't buy in an HOA. "

I like the tradeoff too. In our twin-town tower high rise set-up, I like that my human or dog neighbors can't howl at the moon because it's a "freedom" they cherish. I like that my neighbors' dogs must be under their control and that they don't have the "right" to do their business in our common areas.

These rules and covenants are available in my state for days ahead of someone signing off to close escrow. I like it that prospective buyers don't have to visit a courthouse to get these. Their realtor will have them for them to review.

We are gated, but all perspective buyers wander our common areas with their realtors and certainly may ask residents questions. I, indeed, have been asked questions while working out in our gym which, of course, always is shown.

It took us about two years to figure out that our board was a mess an another 1-1/2 years (2 elections cycles) to get rid of the rogue board. No attorneys or lawsuits, just hard work, learning our governing docs with a small group, going to open board meetings every month and politely erasing ours concerns, and campaigning honestly & effectively.

PamM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 41

Posted:

It's amazing you all are so busy with managing your HOA and have so much time for this site. LOL ... talk about crayz

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Geno

I, as many others, understood the issues with having odd colors on houses, cleaning up after your pets. My issues were really the enforcement parts. Having 317 owners paying dues and 5 appointed directors, along with a PM and attorney being dictators, just because they could and in the past, no one could stop them. So someone on the Board could fine you for something, yet their next door neighbor no because they play golf together, etc.

If a person is suppose to understand a contract whether buying into a HOA or purchasing a homeowner, then full accountability lies with the buyer. Just because it was offered, doesn't mean you have to buy it. Just say no thank you.

Just a thought, maybe the Board or PM could do an orientation for perspective buyers. Seems on another thread they have time to screen buyers.

I love HOA's, just trying to make them better, one person at a time.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamM6 on 07/26/2015 1:46 PM
It's amazing you all are so busy with managing your HOA and have so much time for this site. LOL ... talk about crayz

It's Sunday, my day off.

PamM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 41

Posted:

By the way, I enjoyed Jon's rant above. I imagine he's run to the moderators to have many banned from the site. Or, perhaps newbies to the site are so tired of his rants that they high-tail it off as quick as possible.

Look at the posters to this thread ... how many of those who have joined this site recently are willing to take on the barracudas? None! It is overwhelmingly a conversation between you with an attack on me. Have I really got you that excited bc I came back as different people asking different questions to get answers I needed? I would have been happy to ask those same questions under my original ID, but it was you and the team who threw me off the site. I would have been happy to remain honest, but you would not have any part of it. Why? Bc I was (and still am) in the learning mode and you couldn't tolerate me bucking YOUR system. Overwhelmingly the comments on this thread are the same as all the other threads ... "I got involved bc I didn't like the board, and I did everything the right way to change the board". Tim has said that 10,000 times! My way isn't wrong. What makes you think I have tried some of your suggestions?

I've been banned bc 1) I fought back and 2) you didn't like the questions I asked. Jon wasn't able to give his stock boilerplate answers. Melissa got tired of yelling at me "when you sue the HOA you are suing yourself". Tim took the time to research everything on line and then rewrote to show off his superior intelligence. Banks, I like. Think she's wonderful. Kerry over-loves the high rise condo and fails to see that her HOA is a micro-govt intended to control. Richard is reasoned.

I have no intention of trying to change the laws to suit me. I have every intention of correcting the behavior of a corrupt rogue board. Jon your rant didn't sway me. However, do continue to rant and rail against me and others like me. It keeps you in your pjs, shoving Mars candy bars in your mouth and off the streets. I've learned much in my 3 yrs of fighting corruption in this small community. I learned first that with my situation I could not do it alone. I learned it's typical. So you can smear me all you want. Each of us goes about solving a problem in our own way. Provided I am not banned again, I'll let you know how the court case turns out. Jon might be able to put another notch on his bed and call it a loss for me. But then again, maybe not.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

From my point of view, Pam, I can't get what it is you want from this Forum?

PamM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 41

Posted:

Dang it Kerry ... I'm doing the same thing you are; participating in a thread. Why are you so threatened? I've asked questions and now I have answers. Those answers have been helpful. I've taken what's been useful and used it to my advantage while rejecting plenty. Why are you here? It seems to me you're looking for validation and confirmation on the wonderful world of HOA's. You can love living in a LA HOA high-rise with all the controls necessary for your perfect small-minded totally controlled life. I don't like HOA's and recognize I made a mistake in choosing one. I'm trying to find out how to make it more tolerable and that brings out my independent streak. Relax. Take a deep breath, look out at your million dollar view of those beautiful tarred AC roofs, listen to the sounds of car horns and breathe in those exhaust fumes. Go for a swim on the rooftop. You're in heaven and you know it.

Quick! type as fast as you can to the moderator and make sure I'm banned.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/26/2015 12:33 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/25/2015 5:15 PM

I don't want the thread to become a source of division within the forum or the need to defend or attack someone else.

Sorry Tim but it's not in me to let Jon's behavior go unchallenged. I'm used to babysitting naughty 6th grade boys in my school and chatting with them about proper behavior at school and how to treat each other even if you don't agree with them. You know that golden rule. Treat others as you want to be treated. It applies to adults too. Jon needs to be reminded of that now and then.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PamM6 on 07/26/2015 2:13 PM
By the way, I enjoyed Jon's rant above. I imagine he's run to the moderators to have many banned from the site. Or, perhaps newbies to the site are so tired of his rants that they high-tail it off as quick as possible.

Look at the posters to this thread ... how many of those who have joined this site recently are willing to take on the barracudas? None! It is overwhelmingly a conversation between you with an attack on me. Have I really got you that excited bc I came back as different people asking different questions to get answers I needed? I would have been happy to ask those same questions under my original ID, but it was you and the team who threw me off the site. I would have been happy to remain honest, but you would not have any part of it. Why? Bc I was (and still am) in the learning mode and you couldn't tolerate me bucking YOUR system. Overwhelmingly the comments on this thread are the same as all the other threads ... "I got involved bc I didn't like the board, and I did everything the right way to change the board". Tim has said that 10,000 times! My way isn't wrong. What makes you think I have tried some of your suggestions?

I've been banned bc 1) I fought back and 2) you didn't like the questions I asked. Jon wasn't able to give his stock boilerplate answers. Melissa got tired of yelling at me "when you sue the HOA you are suing yourself". Tim took the time to research everything on line and then rewrote to show off his superior intelligence. Banks, I like. Think she's wonderful. Kerry over-loves the high rise condo and fails to see that her HOA is a micro-govt intended to control. Richard is reasoned.

I have no intention of trying to change the laws to suit me. I have every intention of correcting the behavior of a corrupt rogue board. Jon your rant didn't sway me. However, do continue to rant and rail against me and others like me. It keeps you in your pjs, shoving Mars candy bars in your mouth and off the streets. I've learned much in my 3 yrs of fighting corruption in this small community. I learned first that with my situation I could not do it alone. I learned it's typical. So you can smear me all you want. Each of us goes about solving a problem in our own way. Provided I am not banned again, I'll let you know how the court case turns out. Jon might be able to put another notch on his bed and call it a loss for me. But then again, maybe not.

Pam no one posting here banned you. Not Tim not Melissa not me. Now you can keep claiming that reality but it is not true. Pure delusional fantasy.

The fact you are unwilling to accept any role in why you were banned speaks volumes.

Blame someone else. Blame it on someone because Pam is a victim.

How about your comparison to being raped? Clearly, you are delusional knowing you continue to appear of your own free will. But make ridiculous claims and hopefully the simpleminded will agree.

To boast about "your big lawsuit, in the big court, by the big law firm". And according to you it "looks good". That must be a new legal term based on nothing and used to support the expenditure of more funds on your part. Walter's case looked REAL GOOD according to him it was dismissed before he got to open his mouth.

Now no one can judge you action because it is so solid you can't provide the details for fear of having different opinions as to its merit expressed.

Pam you have proven to be a fraud and a liar. Your first personality failed so you returned with a toned down version suggesting you lived within a decently run property only to find out the truth is your have filed a lawsuit. That makes you a liar under most people's understanding of the word.
So keep posting about your big lawsuit, and how good it looks and I am sure Banks will jump into the first car of your train. She too loves to play the poor victim of the big bad HOA.

AndI am sure myself and others would look forward to hearing the outcome. Understanding none of us has ever been to the "big" court. Is that how you lawyer explained this process to you? Small court, medium court but Pam we are going to the big court! Wow!
And only big law firms get to go to the big court. Color me impressed!
So Pam keep hiding the facts, make up whatever you think serves your version of reality and tell yourself the ends justifies the means.

As Walter would say lets WAIT and see just how good your lawsuit ends up being.
His didn't turn out all that well. Fortunately for him he was in small court. His costs to file were minimum. He represented himself.
Your costs will be much higher.

Having been to the "big " court once or twice liars and frauds don't do well. Neither do people who fabricate reality.
Anyway this ends, thankfully, has no affect on me what so ever.
I pity your neighbors and fellow property owners.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

I want to confess that I didn't end up in a pretty good HOA (7 out of 10 in my book) because my wife and I did our own outstanding due diligence ahead of time. We were given very old copies of HOA governing documents by the seller, which was not good enough under Florida law. Amendments were missing left and right. Among them was a sheet containing the contact information for a management company that hasn't been here for 20 years. When our insurance company tried to contact them for some information on the HOA's umbrella master insurance coverage, they were unable to get ahold of anybody, naturally. We were 3 days from pulling the plug on the deal until we finally spoke directly with the president who gave us the correct up-to-date information. Ultimately, before closing, we did obtain a full set of documents and amendments from our title insurance agency. Even then, there was no information at all regarding the reserves.

It shouldn't have been that hard.

We were extremely fortunate and every day we thank God, goodness, and our lucky stars that we didn't end up in the middle of a nightmare. We could have, and there was very little opportunity for us to discover that ahead of time. So we can't claim it was because we were diligent and did our homework as informed, educated buyers that we ended up in a "good" HOA. My posts here could easily have been of a much different tone and character if things had turned out differently.

Our governing documents are a mess and that's something I hope to help get sorted out in the next few years. Our reserves are in decent shape, but I have my doubts as to whether they conform 100% with Florida law. That's something else I hope to work on. If the reserves aren't on track to be fully funded by the time the next big expenditures are due - painting, roofs, roads, irrigation system, clubhouse HVAC, pool mechanical - in the coming years (5 years until the first of those reaches the end of its useful life) then we will probably bail out in a few years unless things are set right. A large-ish special assessment is not something we want to deal with, and I plan to use that fear, if necessary, to convince our neighbors and fellow homeowners that we need to step up our reserve contributions starting next year. I expect substantial resistance to paying for a professional reserve study. Our VP and Finance Committee chairman is a retired CPA and he doesn't see the need for one. Hard to go up against his take on the situation. I'm an engineer, not an accountant, Jim. But I am fairly certain we do not meet Florida's statutory requirements for reserve calculations and disclosure.

Anyway, I do think that people in not-so-great HOA situations should have more resources available to them in order to help them obtain accurate and timely information about their HOAs, the finances, election procedures, and ways to stop little tyrants from lording over their associations because their egos demand they get off on their power trips. And finally, once again, I thank the good lord every day that we ended up in an HOA that's nowhere near as bad as some of the ones I hear about, here and elsewhere. I have no illusions that they're all like this one, but I'm pretty sure the only sure-fire way of improving one is by influencing or taking over the board. If you wait for the government to come to your rescue you're going to be waiting a long time.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 12:08 PM

Posted By BanksS on 07/26/2015 11:25 AM

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 10:47 AM

Posted By JohnC46 on 07/26/2015 7:22 AM
There are BOD's that should tarred and feathered. There are owners that should be tarred and feathered. Now if asked which way I lean, I do lean toward the BOD.

One of the problems I have on this chat is someone that shows up and asks a question or asks for advice based on a set of delivered facts when quite often they have another agenda. It often goes from something simple like do we need to fill BOD vacancies to my BOD is useless and filled with cheaters, scumbags, senile old people, uneducated fools, cheaters, etc. Their issue(s) never was the BOD vacancy.

Many of us on here have seen and heard it all or at least most of it. Many you can see coming long before they get to their point(s). I am skeptical when one first starts posting. I ask myself where are they going? What is their end game?

Bingo John well said!

Yes, seems some who pull into this site driving their version of the crazy train often can't be bothered presenting an accurate or for that matter truthful representation of the facts.

Now some are willing to operate with just the evidence provided and have suggested questioning the posters here for details is " out of line" well I see that line of behavior to be limited. If you truly want opinions and information than present the truth. If you can only provide your version or hide the facts under multiple IDs or misrepresentations in my view you have no place here. If you can't provide the honest truth should tell your about the strength of your position. And please drop the "rape" analogies perhaps such sensationalism works on the slow and limited but rest assured that is a small audience for the simpleminded. And IF that is truly how you expect us to believe you feel then why do you return?

And of course when the latest engineer pulls their crazy train into the station we have resident posters who can't grab a seat in the front of the car hoping this god will take them to the promised land. Folks who have never served a day on any board. Folks who could never get elected to any board. And folks who got on the board it became to tough and they quit. Just to damn tough.

The thought some of the regular posters all live their lives in favor of HOAs and to group us all into that box is ignorant nonsense. I removed two board presidents, an entire board, two MCs, one lawyer, and multiple service providers to imply I have a blind spot to needed change is stupidity at its lowest level. Just in most cases those who post and whine about how the big bad board did them wrong well they don' have the balls, brains or willingness to get done what needs to be done.

Now we have this move to seek the help of politicians because politicians always offer solutions! Are you kidding? Many here have suggested due to personal experience working within the system in the long run is more effective and less costly to the property you claim to wish to protect. My removing two board presidents cost nothing. Just effort, time and a willingness to do the hard, dirty work necessary. Going to politicians in the hopes they might punish the board, remove the board, sanction the board, prevent them from serving, requiring certifications, is a fool's mission. In all the years I have served on our board, posted to this site, I have not heard one time some new brilliant set of HOA governance was passed and cured the ills of the HOA world. If you in involve politicians you end up with more laws, regulations and the need for the legal system to be involved. Or you end up with situations like California and Florida where in my opinion feel good efforts have come to hinder common sense operation. Whenever lawyers tel, you how to do things you cost just went up and you are in serious trouble.

The multiple personality Pam recently shared her views she presented to her local representatives. She "thinks" CAI needs to be reviewed because she does not share their views. On what grounds does she think the government can , should or will do so. CAI is a private organization not subject to approval by the government but because Pam she things differently big brother should take them on.
And of course the board should be required to be educated, certified and agree to abide by Pam's view of HOA governance. How much education will Pam be required to have before she can demand her views are the only views that matter? Any?

In my world if you have a problem with dog crap in your own backyard best to solve that problem first before you decide to take on the issue nationwide.
If you can't muster the effort required to clean up around your own house and community chances are running to the state capital, and hoping to find someone who should do that job for you are slim and none. Seems like spending 7 hours to present a 2 minute speech that falls on deaf, vote seeking ears is less productive than actually working for change locally.

As John states, I have heard every story, listened to every excuse, fielded every out of line demand. Not hard to read between the lines when the next ZEALOT who briefly hides their desire to bunch every HOA and every HOA board member into some evil group of "fascists" based on their distasteful experience on their one property. Let's not forget the board members are owners too. Let's not forget in most cases they recieved enough votes to win a position on the board. Something in many cases YOU could never do! Despite how smart you are, how much more you clearly know, and how it was done at you last HOA property. Amazes me how simpleminded folks come to believe they know how best to do a job they have never done!

So whether you are Mike from Ma. The clown who sued his property four times, promised to take the homes of board members as punishment for their acts, and reform HOA governance worldwide. In the end Mile the legal wizard lost all court cases.

Amin from Texas who saw HOAs as a cancer, who claimed to have found proof of insurance fraud but was afraid to visit the PM to review the records.

Ott who sued her property was awarded a minimal amount. Claimed some great moral victory which changed nothing.

Sam Judie, from Arizona who served on his board quit, and then began a crusade as an anti-HOA soldier to change the world through spreading websites and written propoganda.

Chris from New Jersey came to this site claimed her Baird was "rouge". Come to find out she too filed a lawsuit, she ceased the payment of her own common charges and when the court ruled against her she sued a sitting judge! Now Chris never bothered to provide any of this information because that might have put her in an irrational, over the top, unreasonable light.

And most recently Walter who filed a $10 small claims action over legal charges he deemed to be improper by a sitting board member. Although he allowed the board to cover the costs HE HIMSELF ran up using the services of the HOA attorney. When asked, Walter provided HIS version of the details all of which pointed to his righteousness in battling board corruption and illegally. When Walter was asked to post the ACTUAL LEGAL DOCUMENTS to provide the truth about the circumstances he represented. His limitations suddenly came to light along with his in ability to cut and paste a document. Rather simple act for most. Leaving us to accept Walter's version of reality which in the end was thrown out by the court on its face. Without any consideration.

In each case these crazy train engineers all pull into this site looking for passengers and supporters. In some cases spreading God's word. Some here are always to eager to climb aboard in the hopes they will be brought to the promised land. Where their version of reality exists. Where they get their way with no effort. Where what they have found impossible to achieve will be done for them. Where they can reclaim some of their own self respect back after being unsuccessfully in their own efforts.

Not once has the crazy train even left the station. The engineers all dry up and shrink away after realizing the audience they expected to find is not as gullible and naive as they needed. After their plans for world domination land them flat on their faces. Where their best plans accomplish NOTHING.

So to the folks like Pam who come here and post under multiple names pretending to be someone they are not, liken this site to being raped and return on their own, post lies and misrepresentations, hold out the possibility their big case which " looks good" which MIGHT become newsworthy should be supported while refusing to give any details understand you are just another in a small line of anti-HOA zealots who use the words, terms, and phrases of others trying to drum up supporters with limited understanding, limited experience and an axe to grind against their own HOAs. Although we have a few folks here willing to jump on any train that pulls in most here aren't buying the nonsense you are selling. The fact is you can't even sell it on your own property! And rather than examine YOUR OWN part in any of this all you can find is blame to place on others.
You were not banned by Tim as you claimed and continue to claim. You were not raped when the door out was a click away, and you return again under another username. Enough with the BS and lies. Or perhaps that is all you have........

JonD1,
YOU are the poster here who sows the most discord on this site and that is the truth. All one has to do is read the above post to confirm it.

And you continue to come this site never having served on any board. Hoping to recover from the ill feelings and lasting label of having been sued by your own HOA. To whine about thousands people who serve on boards you know nothing about. Always willing to see the opinions of folks like Mike, Frank, Pam, Amanda as valid because misery, laziness and playing the victim is the role you are most comfortable with.
If it's a pity party you are looking to have Banks is the person to invite.
As as far as you distaste for the election process now occurring in your home state of Iowa. I seem to remember last time around Iowa voted for Rick Santorum who now sits at less than 1% in the pools this year. Talking about boarding the crazy train!

Jon,

I do pride myself in seeing others point of view. Nothing wrong with that.

I stuck up for myself when I got sued. That is hardly the behavior of a victim. I have made some positive changes in my community by speaking up. Just as you did. I was even nominated for a board seat this year but I turned it down for personal reasons.

. Kind of presumptuous of you to say that all Iowans borded that "crazy train." I was just making commentary about Iowa now being bombarded with political saturation. Afterall Iowa leads the country holding the first caucus of the political process. We are first so the process seems to go on and on and on. By election time I am weary of it. That's all I was saying.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BanksS on 07/26/2015 3:16 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/26/2015 12:33 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/25/2015 5:15 PM

I don't want the thread to become a source of division within the forum or the need to defend or attack someone else.

Sorry Tim but it's not in me to let Jon's behavior go unchallenged. I'm used to babysitting naughty 6th grade boys in my school and chatting with them about proper behavior at school and how to treat each other even if you don't agree with them. You know that golden rule. Treat others as you want to be treated. It applies to adults too. Jon needs to be reminded of that now and then.

Just for the record Banks you have never served on your HOA board. You claim to fame is you were taken to court by your HOA and that did not end well for you or the HOA. You have no role other than a nuisance.

I have to wonder why you find the ability to be so bold in speaking your mind on this anonymous site but when your HOA president suggested to you that you should pray for God's forgiveness you stared down at the ground turned and walked away in silence. When it was time to put up you folded.

Just another victim....... Who can only whine and cry about how they were done wrong and blame people who had nothing to do with their misfortune.

No doubt you voted for Santurum last time around along with your fellow Hawkeyes. The crazy train is where you feel most comfortable.
Pam has quite a few empty seats all aboard!

My guess the 6th graders might teach you about self respect, accountability and taking responsibility for your own actions. You got sued Banks the time to get overvthatvhas passed long ago. Or you can wallow in the victim role for the rest of your life. Perhaps wearing a scarlet letter "S". SUED

PamM6 (Michigan)
Posts: 41

Posted:

Geno, thanks for your comments. Those are helpful. Banks thanks for agreeing about Jon. I'm now out for a run then to bed. I'll catch up with the attacks in a week or so. God bless.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Wait, now that's familiar--there was a "female" a couple of years ago or less who seemed appalled that a few of us like urban living. I remember comments from "her" about cockroaches and stinky hallways. This was compared to "her" superior lifestyle of breathing fresh country air. That "woman" also disliked HOAs intensely. Now "Pam's" speculation about where I live and what my condo is like is waaay off base, of course. And her dime-store psychological analysis is too.

I still can't grasp how "her" personal speculation about my life benefits HOA homeowners or leaders.

I will say that the reason I bought an urban high rise is because I rented in one in Chicago for a year at 3100 N. Lakeshore Dr. and really liked the way of life. The rules about colors of window treatments and noise suit me just fine. I and others have plenty of freedoms to decorate our interiors as we like. And to walk at the spur of the moment to all kinds of creative events that expand my thinking and horizons is indeed a dream! But it's not for everyone! No, I am not "free" to get creative with our common area corridor. This might really bother some, but I, frankly, don't spend much time in my hallway. These rules do not threaten my independence.

As I've written way more than once there was an ignorant arrogant board here that we, showing great flashes of independence, overthrew. A group of us acted together and used our combined talents & creativity & new knowledge to get in just before the statutes of limitation expired on the construction defeats that we suspected. We got a damn good settlement from him.

I'd say we prevailed because of the American values of working hard together, by being thrifty, and by continuously seeking input from our community and encouraging members to serve on committee to freshen the pipeline for board service.

Is this HOA perfect now? No. Our reserves aren't as well funded as they should be either. I cannot persuade the board to update our governing docs. After doing well for three years, our last PM slipped into some bad habits, but our new one seems mush better. Some directors only focus on their pet projects and can't see the larger picture. Still yes, I'm very content--but that's just me, here, now.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Back around 2005-2006, there was a specific loan program that had partial funding from a local communities that required completion of a class outlining the program and any implication it might have.

That is a great idea, make the borrowers take a class on home-ownership in general and HOA life when applicable.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/26/2015 12:41 PM

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 12:21 PM [emphasis added]

When I purchased my first home in NY not in an HOA community, I drove there after becoming interested in the house, scoped out the neighborhood and watched my potential neighbors interact with each other and spoke to them about living there. HOA buyers cannot do that.

Why not?

I did the exact same thing you did when I purchased my home and it is in an HOA.
Unless it's a gated community, there is nothing really preventing someone from doing that.

I was referring to a gated community. But glad to see others have the same idea as me!! :-)

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 07/26/2015 3:37 PM
I want to confess that I didn't end up in a pretty good HOA (7 out of 10 in my book) because my wife and I did our own outstanding due diligence ahead of time. We were given very old copies of HOA governing documents by the seller, which was not good enough under Florida law. Amendments were missing left and right. Among them was a sheet containing the contact information for a management company that hasn't been here for 20 years. When our insurance company tried to contact them for some information on the HOA's umbrella master insurance coverage, they were unable to get ahold of anybody, naturally. We were 3 days from pulling the plug on the deal until we finally spoke directly with the president who gave us the correct up-to-date information. Ultimately, before closing, we did obtain a full set of documents and amendments from our title insurance agency. Even then, there was no information at all regarding the reserves.

It shouldn't have been that hard.

We were extremely fortunate and every day we thank God, goodness, and our lucky stars that we didn't end up in the middle of a nightmare. We could have, and there was very little opportunity for us to discover that ahead of time. So we can't claim it was because we were diligent and did our homework as informed, educated buyers that we ended up in a "good" HOA. My posts here could easily have been of a much different tone and character if things had turned out differently.

Our governing documents are a mess and that's something I hope to help get sorted out in the next few years. Our reserves are in decent shape, but I have my doubts as to whether they conform 100% with Florida law. That's something else I hope to work on. If the reserves aren't on track to be fully funded by the time the next big expenditures are due - painting, roofs, roads, irrigation system, clubhouse HVAC, pool mechanical - in the coming years (5 years until the first of those reaches the end of its useful life) then we will probably bail out in a few years unless things are set right. A large-ish special assessment is not something we want to deal with, and I plan to use that fear, if necessary, to convince our neighbors and fellow homeowners that we need to step up our reserve contributions starting next year. I expect substantial resistance to paying for a professional reserve study. Our VP and Finance Committee chairman is a retired CPA and he doesn't see the need for one. Hard to go up against his take on the situation. I'm an engineer, not an accountant, Jim. But I am fairly certain we do not meet Florida's statutory requirements for reserve calculations and disclosure.

Anyway, I do think that people in not-so-great HOA situations should have more resources available to them in order to help them obtain accurate and timely information about their HOAs, the finances, election procedures, and ways to stop little tyrants from lording over their associations because their egos demand they get off on their power trips. And finally, once again, I thank the good lord every day that we ended up in an HOA that's nowhere near as bad as some of the ones I hear about, here and elsewhere. I have no illusions that they're all like this one, but I'm pretty sure the only sure-fire way of improving one is by influencing or taking over the board. If you wait for the government to come to your rescue you're going to be waiting a long time.

Geno, dont you think the realtors have some responsibility to obtain current governing documents for buyers? They are making lots of money on these sales, and it irritates me that they do so little work to earn their money.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Maybe it was on another thread, Allison, but I pointed out that Realtors show their prospective buyers all over our gated urban high rise. If I'm working out, they often will ask me question in our gym.

In CA, Allison, Sellers are required to provide a whole lot of HOA materials to prospective buyers. These, in our case, are given to the listing agent and title company. Some of them are on our HOA's website home page for anyone to visit. Good examples are our rules & regs, ARC Guidelines, Newsletter copies, and on & on.

Aren't such docs required before closing in FL?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 5:34 PM
Geno, dont you think the realtors have some responsibility to obtain current governing documents for buyers? They are making lots of money on these sales, and it irritates me that they do so little work to earn their money.

Yes I do. The docs we got from the seller actually came through our broker, and he should have known better considering the seller's agent worked for the same company. Making RE brokers responsible for providing potential buyers with current documents would be a good step in the right direction. I'm sure the RE industry would lobby hard against it, but it wouldn't have to be onerous. We're working on a community/HOA website that will have all our documents and amendments available to the public (which includes brokers). All the docs are already available on the county official records website with a little searching. By making them convenient to find maybe it will help someone. There are community websites in the area that offer to sell you the community documents. Not sure how I feel about that. They are all part of the public record. I wouldn't be against a small fee to offset the cost of keeping them up to date, but I believe the places currently selling them are asking hundreds of dollars for a set, which I think is excessive.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh, always a good idea to check out the community. When we were raising our kids, we'd cruise the neighborhoods in the early evening to look for signs of other kids. One could ride a bike around a neighborhood and get a good feel for it too.

When we were to rent a high rise condo in Chicago, I'd flown there for a successful job interview, rented a car, and visited the areas where we (only two grown-ups by now) would rent. Since I didn't have a rental agent or much time, I could only view the buildings I'd seen in ads from the outside. But I parked by a local bar, went in, bellied-up, ordered a beer and grilled the clearly long-term neighbors about the buildings I'd seen and the neighborhood in general. Got great info!

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

When our builder was selling homes, one could put $500.00 down to reserve a lot for 30 days. During that time one would pick a model and options and arrive at a final price. You could cancel at anytime for any reason during the 30 days and your money was refunded.

More importantly was when you put down the lot reserve, you received and signed for a copy of the Covenants, Bylaws, and Rules & Regulations. If you did not like them you could cancel. We still had people down the road that claimed they did not get such or they did not understand them. No matter what you do, you cannot protect some people from themselves.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 07/26/2015 3:58 PM

Posted By BanksS on 07/26/2015 3:16 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/26/2015 12:33 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 07/25/2015 5:15 PM

I don't want the thread to become a source of division within the forum or the need to defend or attack someone else.

Sorry Tim but it's not in me to let Jon's behavior go unchallenged. I'm used to babysitting naughty 6th grade boys in my school and chatting with them about proper behavior at school and how to treat each other even if you don't agree with them. You know that golden rule. Treat others as you want to be treated. It applies to adults too. Jon needs to be reminded of that now and then.

Just for the record Banks you have never served on your HOA board. You claim to fame is you were taken to court by your HOA and that did not end well for you or the HOA. You have no role other than a nuisance.

I have to wonder why you find the ability to be so bold in speaking your mind on this anonymous site but when your HOA president suggested to you that you should pray for God's forgiveness you stared down at the ground turned and walked away in silence. When it was time to put up you folded.

Just another victim....... Who can only whine and cry about how they were done wrong and blame people who had nothing to do with their misfortune.

No doubt you voted for Santurum last time around along with your fellow Hawkeyes. The crazy train is where you feel most comfortable.
Pam has quite a few empty seats all aboard!

My guess the 6th graders might teach you about self respect, accountability and taking responsibility for your own actions. You got sued Banks the time to get overvthatvhas passed long ago. Or you can wallow in the victim role for the rest of your life. Perhaps wearing a scarlet letter "S". SUED

Sounds just like Facebook nonsense. GROW UP!!

NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254

Posted:

One of the reasons that I don't bother to visit this forum is the petty infighting and superior attitudes of some of the folks here.

I first came here because I was having some problems with my HOA regarding deed restrictions, a little later I posted about the fact that the board was not following its governing docs (supposed to be 3 members, but had only two and an apparent refusal to appoint as required). I also pointed out that the board had apparently increased dues in violation of Texas State law. Subsequently, I was elected to the board at the annual meeting and appointed Pres at the first directors meeting. I was looking for advise, because now I was in the drivers seat and wanted to fix the problems that I'd seen. While many on here were helpful, there was one who was dismissive and thought I was making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Once I was able to review things, I determined that the previous board had authorized the community manager to have a credit card. Because no-one on the board had any oversight over the payment of bills and did not even have approval authority on the management company's website - the property manager was able to charge over $4,000 for her own benefit and hide it in the HOA budget.

This site has the potential to provide a great deal of help to folks seeking answers, but it is real turn off to see that this forum is getting like a lot of social media stuff giving folks the ability to criticize and try to exert their self perceived superiority.

The petty infighting and bickering will just turn folks away

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I agree I hate it when we fight...

Many of us regulars do come here for a good purpose. We've been to many other HOA sites that were just filled with hate mongering, attacks, and just places to wholler in your own stew... We wanted something different to help every level of HOA member. Although many of us are former or current board members. We don't forget we also are just HOA members or owners too. It's just in reality that many people who work so hard to make it to Board level to make positive changes, receive such little support or education. You get to the board but now everyone wants to tear you down or criticize everything you have done. You need to have place to gain some strength and perspective. I hope that many of us have provided that to the posters.

We aren't perfect here. That is for sure. I think at times we sound like the HOA board in heaven if there was one... Even they would disagree but most likely in musical harmony... Eventually you will see the light... or it's really the light of a train at the end of the tunnel... Just understand we do the best that we can and at times it's not that pretty or perfect...

Former HOA President

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NigelB on 07/29/2015 10:12 AM
One of the reasons that I don't bother to visit this forum is the petty infighting and superior attitudes of some of the folks here.

...

The petty infighting and bickering will just turn folks away

You're going to get the former pretty much anywhere on the internet no matter the topic of conversation, almost without exception. The latter is easily avoidable. I skim right past the bickering, no one is forcing me to read it and I have no interest in the dramatics. Scroll to the next post or the next thread and don't waste the time.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/26/2015 5:55 PM
Maybe it was on another thread, Allison, but I pointed out that Realtors show their prospective buyers all over our gated urban high rise. If I'm working out, they often will ask me question in our gym.

In CA, Allison, Sellers are required to provide a whole lot of HOA materials to prospective buyers. These, in our case, are given to the listing agent and title company. Some of them are on our HOA's website home page for anyone to visit. Good examples are our rules & regs, ARC Guidelines, Newsletter copies, and on & on.

Aren't such docs required before closing in FL?

As far as I know, no such documents are required and in fact, anyone can purchase a house without an attorney, the closing can happen in less than a week if the buyer wants it that quickly. I am in agreement with how you do it in CA, the buyer should have all the available information to make an informed decision. But until that happens by law here in Fl, I think the seller/HOA Board together can present all the information a buyer would need.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 07/26/2015 6:26 PM

Posted By AllisonD on 07/26/2015 5:34 PM
Geno, dont you think the realtors have some responsibility to obtain current governing documents for buyers? They are making lots of money on these sales, and it irritates me that they do so little work to earn their money.

Yes I do. The docs we got from the seller actually came through our broker, and he should have known better considering the seller's agent worked for the same company. Making RE brokers responsible for providing potential buyers with current documents would be a good step in the right direction. I'm sure the RE industry would lobby hard against it, but it wouldn't have to be onerous. We're working on a community/HOA website that will have all our documents and amendments available to the public (which includes brokers). All the docs are already available on the county official records website with a little searching. By making them convenient to find maybe it will help someone. There are community websites in the area that offer to sell you the community documents. Not sure how I feel about that. They are all part of the public record. I wouldn't be against a small fee to offset the cost of keeping them up to date, but I believe the places currently selling them are asking hundreds of dollars for a set, which I think is excessive.

Everything is public record found on the clerks website so making them available on your website is a great idea.