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LmG (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Background- 185 single family neighborhood in Virginia. Self managed HOA. 5 directors. Same President for 18 years.

I moved in 6 years ago, and have been to 4/5 last annual member meetings. The Annual meeting is where the board of directors are elected.
Our CC&R's say elections are supposed to be held by secret written ballot, and we are to have a nominating committee of 1 director and 2 members.

In reality, our President sends out the meeting announcement and asks that all nominations and Proxies be sent to her email. No one on the board has access to her email. This has occurred at all 5 of the last annual meetings, including 2 of which her seat was up for election.

Last November begore the meeting, I emailed her stating my interest on being on the board. She replied back about a treasurer (officer) position or making a event committe position for me. She failed to mention 4/5 director seats were up election that night, including hers.

Of the last 4/5 meetings I have attended there has never been a nominating committee, or even a ballot. There was never an announcement about how many seats, or what seats were open. She calls for a yay or nay on the floor.

It appears no one knew any better, or cared enough to speak up.

After finally picking up our by-laws, and governing documents two months ago I am appalled. Our President runs the show. There is a long list of other major issues. Including holding the president position along with the treasurer position for up to the last 10 years. Which is a violation of our by-laws.

My question, is do we have grounds to challenge the last election? If so what would that look like? How much do you think it would cost in legal fees? Rough estiment?

Thank you
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Your 5th paragraph says it all - it appears no one knew any better or cared enough to speak up. Your community has allowed the president to do whatever, maybe because they see things getting done and nothing's happened yet that threatens their wallet (the top motivator of most people). You seem to be well versed in what the documents say, so why did it take 4 or 5 annual meetings before you to realize something wasn't right? Have you discussed your concern with the President? What about the other Board members?

(And didn't you have the Bylaws and CCRs at the time you brought your home? Why haven't you taken a look at them until now?)

You don't need to haul anyone into court (at least not yet). Look around on this website and you'll see many people changed their communities when they did the hard work of speaking truth to power and rein in this president. To do that, you need to rally other homeowners and that will take time. Yes, you will probably find a lot of people really haven't thought about it and don't care, but it's possible you will find a few others who think like you, but didn't know where or how to start - or they were just scared to do so. You will all need to get together and share the load, and then we'll see what happens. TimB4, who's also in Virginia, often comments on this website and has had A LOT of great ideas and experience on how this is done.

By the way, did you get on the Board? If so, you can start by expressing your concern about the elections and poll the owners to see what they would like. For example, you may not need a nominating committee if people are willing to throw their hats in the ring. If there's a quorum of homeowners at your annual meeting, why not allow a voice vote and/or use of proxies? Of course, CCR changes will require homeowner approval so it's back to the documents to see how that's done.

Hold on to your knickers - you'll in for quite a ride, but depending on how well you and like minded homeowners state your case, you'll get there. Good luck!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LmG (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for your reply. I left quite a bit out in my previous post. It is complicated, and full of suspense as I'm sure most of these situations are.

To answer your questions- I did not get on the board. There were two of us at the meeting in November who stood up on the floor to show our interest in running. Our President told us we would have to run against one of the other members, who I am friends with. It was akward. At no time did anyone mention there were 3 other seats up, other than my friends. The November meeting had quadrouple the number of members than any other meeting I had been to. Later I found out that several members brought stacks of proxies signed by their neighbors. They wanted change. But, it was their first meeting, and just felt there was no right time to use them. There was no ballot, or really a valid vote.

I admittedly had never pulled out my docs and read them. I had been an active volunteer, and happily helped the board as often as I could. It was not until May of this year when our community pool opened that I, along with many others were upset. None of the repairs that were voted on at the annual meeting were completed. Part of the pool fence was unstable and falling in, the pool house roof is in a state of disrepair and was agreed to be replaced and was not, there was electrical wires hanging out from one of the pool lights in the water and the list goes on and on.

I have rallied the neighbors and have successfully had a petition signed by the required number of members in a matter of 3 days. However, in the mean time the president went on a political campaign in the neighborhood making it more about emotions rather than business and it pitted neighbors against neighbors. It was getting ugly. I have held off submitting the signatures, division is the last thing I want.

In the mean time I have requested and finally was given access to 3 years of financial, and other important documents. I have had an unofficial audit completed by a neighbor CPA and been working diligently to find the best course of action. The audit came back and showed thankfully no misappropriations of funds, but an absolute mismanagement of funds. Late fees, lack of contract oversight resulting in extra charges, and very possibly an immediate family meet working for both large contracts we have with no official disclosure.

We have never had a proper reserve study done, although required by state law. Which, helps explain the lack of planning for anticipated repairs/replacement ect. We have a reserve account that is far below where it should be. Last year we started spending more than we brought in, and that will likely continue for the subsequent years if nothing changes.

The city was called, not by me, for code enforcement on common property structures and it resulted in a laundry list of code violations. The city is working with our president to become compliant. However, no joke, some of the repairs have been done with duct tape and spray paint. The inspectors have been out mutiple times.

It is just a mess. The bod have sat by and let this happen. She has a strong personality, and is a master politician, despite the obvious lack of leadership skills, she has some very strong advocates.

Due to term limits, the best option would be to invalidate the entire 2014 elections. Which would essentially mean we would have all 5 directors seats open in a new election. Wipe the slate clean, and get people on there to clean up the mess. There are very good candidates who want to be on the board. We have several civil engineers who have offered to complete a proper reserve study if we have a new board, and what I believe is a good plan to just start fresh.

Now, I am trying to figure out what challenging an election would look like.
LmG (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for your reply. I left quite a bit out in my previous post. It is complicated, and full of suspense as I'm sure most of these situations are.

To answer your questions- I did not get on the board. There were two of us at the meeting in November who stood up on the floor to show our interest in running. Our President told us we would have to run against one of the other members, who I am friends with. It was akward. At no time did anyone mention there were 3 other seats up, other than my friends. The November meeting had quadrouple the number of members than any other meeting I had been to. Later I found out that several members brought stacks of proxies signed by their neighbors. They wanted change. But, it was their first meeting, and just felt there was no right time to use them. There was no ballot, or really a valid vote.

I admittedly had never pulled out my docs and read them. I had been an active volunteer, and happily helped the board as often as I could. It was not until May of this year when our community pool opened that I, along with many others were upset. None of the repairs that were voted on at the annual meeting were completed. Part of the pool fence was unstable and falling in, the pool house roof is in a state of disrepair and was agreed to be replaced and was not, there was electrical wires hanging out from one of the pool lights in the water and the list goes on and on.

I have rallied the neighbors and have successfully had a petition signed by the required number of members in a matter of 3 days. However, in the mean time the president went on a political campaign in the neighborhood making it more about emotions rather than business and it pitted neighbors against neighbors. It was getting ugly. I have held off submitting the signatures, division is the last thing I want.

In the mean time I have requested and finally was given access to 3 years of financial, and other important documents. I have had an unofficial audit completed by a neighbor CPA and been working diligently to find the best course of action. The audit came back and showed thankfully no misappropriations of funds, but an absolute mismanagement of funds. Late fees, lack of contract oversight resulting in extra charges, and very possibly an immediate family meet working for both large contracts we have with no official disclosure.

We have never had a proper reserve study done, although required by state law. Which, helps explain the lack of planning for anticipated repairs/replacement ect. We have a reserve account that is far below where it should be. Last year we started spending more than we brought in, and that will likely continue for the subsequent years if nothing changes.

The city was called, not by me, for code enforcement on common property structures and it resulted in a laundry list of code violations. The city is working with our president to become compliant. However, no joke, some of the repairs have been done with duct tape and spray paint. The inspectors have been out mutiple times.

It is just a mess. The bod have sat by and let this happen. She has a strong personality, and is a master politician, despite the obvious lack of leadership skills, she has some very strong advocates.

Due to term limits, the best option would be to invalidate the entire 2014 elections. Which would essentially mean we would have all 5 directors seats open in a new election. Wipe the slate clean, and get people on there to clean up the mess. There are very good candidates who want to be on the board. We have several civil engineers who have offered to complete a proper reserve study if we have a new board, and what I believe is a good plan to just start fresh.

Now, I am trying to figure out what challenging an election would look like.
LmG (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Mistake- not term limits, rather just the director terms. 4 directors seats were up in November 2014, and the remaining director is up in 2015.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Did you really think the president would say “whoops, my bad – so sorry for doing whatever I damn well pleased all these years, I’ll sit down now?”

I realize it may not be comfortable running against your friends, but then again, they’ve sat by and let this president have her way, so what good are they? You may as well put some mannequins up there. A board member’s prime directive is to make decisions that are in the best interests of the community and leave your personal agenda at the door. Those decisions aren’t always easy and even if they really make sense, folks get mad – that’s the price of the leadership ticket, so you’re either willing to pay it or not.

Your unofficial audit indicates that this Board (including the president and your friends on it) have some explaining to do if, in fact, the money’s being mismanaged. And, as you note, a reserve study needs to be done posthaste, otherwise everyone’s looking at a special assessment at some point – and then they’ll have no one else but themselves to blame. THAT’S who say by and let this happen, not just the other Board members.

Your next to last paragraph is probably what your association will have to do, it’s just a matter of you and the people who signed your petition having the…cashews to close ranks and demand what you want. And once you get the bad/ineffective folks out, be prepared to roll up your sleeves and get to work.

It sounds like you have some allies already, so you’ll have to get together and see what your documents say about recalls. If it doesn’t say anything, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re stuck. You got the petition signed before, so you’ll probably have to do that again – in addition to requesting a new election, you might need to present some sort of summary of your audit. Be willing and able to share those findings in writing with the Board and your fellow homeowners and see what happens. That might be enough to prompt the Board to step down or at least remove this president from her position (usually the Board elect the president), and then you can go on from there.

What will all this look like? Depends on the temperament of you and your allies. The president may have some strong advocates, but you can counter with your own and hopefully there are more of them. Some people do have that “la, la, la – I’ve made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts!” attitude, so you may need to figure out what will really set them off and push that button. If the money’s funny, that may be all you need (as I said earlier, nothing like a smack down of the wallet to get people good and riled up). Good luck – you’re going to need it!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM
It appears no one knew any better, or cared enough to speak up.

90% of all HOA/condo problems are due to that right there. Even if you do have grounds to challenge the last election (sounds like you might) my advice would be to look forward and plan for the next election instead. Going through the challenge process, whatever it is in VA, could be an arduous energy-sapping and soul-crushing experience. And that's if you prevail and win. Save that energy for the next election.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
How large is your budget?
Have you talked to any of the other 4 directors? What is their opinion?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

Our CC&R's say elections are supposed to be held by secret written ballot, and we are to have a nominating committee of 1 director and 2 members. . . .

Of the last 4/5 meetings I have attended there has never been a nominating committee, or even a ballot. There was never an announcement about how many seats, or what seats were open. She [the President] calls for a yay or nay on the floor.

Our nominating committee is a committee of the whole Board.
Why? Because, nobody has ever volunteered to be on the nominating committee that our Board simply fulfills the requirement by making a committee of the whole board.

As for written ballots, if there are the same number of nominees as there are available seats, then vote by affirmation is typically allowed.

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

In reality, our President sends out the meeting announcement and asks that all nominations and Proxies be sent to her email. No one on the board has access to her email.

Does your Association pay for an Association e-mail?

Our Association hosts a website. Part of that is having the ability to create Association e-mail accounts. Associations that don't have this ability do typically utilize their personal e-mails.

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

Last November begore the meeting, I emailed her stating my interest on being on the board. She replied back about a treasurer (officer) position or making a event committe position for me. She failed to mention 4/5 director seats were up election that night, including hers.

Typically, the nominating committee only has to nominate enough candidates as there are open seats. Unless nominations from the floor are allowed, or your State laws mandate, there may not be a requirement for the committee to accept your willingness to serve as a Director.

Keep in mind, you were not turned down. You were asked to serve as an Officer or a Committee chair.

Did you take them up on this offer?

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

Including holding the president position along with the treasurer position for up to the last 10 years. Which is a violation of our by-laws.

Well, perhaps nobody has volunteered to take on the Treasurer position.
If they haven't, then perhaps it's a good thing that she is willing to do two jobs instead of one. Again, she did offer that position to you which, if accepted, would eliminate that issue.

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

My question, is do we have grounds to challenge the last election?

Honestly, the answer is it depends.

It depends on what the language is in your governing documents.
It depends on what the language is in your States applicable laws.
It depends on what went on at the Board meetings prior to the annual meeting.
It depends if anybody made an objection at the annual meeting on the procedural process.
It depends on how much time has lapsed between the election and the desire to challenge the results.

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

If so what would that look like?

You would hire an attorney who would file the necessary documents in court.

Quote:
Posted By LmG on 07/21/2015 5:11 AM

How much do you think it would cost in legal fees? Rough estiment?

Legal fees vary based on the experience of the attorney, the going price in your area, the size of the firm and the complexity of the case. I would suspect somewhere between $100 to $300 an hour (keep in mind, you could have more than one person working on the case and the cost is per hour per individual).

When we last asked what we thought was a couple of simple questions of our attorney, it cost about $600.

My suggestion: Rather then challenge the election, accept the offer to serve as an Officer and see why things are being done the way they are. Then slowly make the changes needed to move things into compliance with the governing documents.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with this advice from Tim:
"Rather then challenge the election, accept the offer to serve as an Officer and see why things are being done the way they are. Then slowly make the changes needed to move things into compliance with the governing documents."

No point in spending any $$$$ on attorneys at this time. while you're learning the ropes, begin to enlarge your relationships so that she the next election rolls around there's a group of you who are able & ready to step up.

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