Noisy, yelling neighbor

My problem is not my HOA, or board members, but rather their inability to deal with a difficult neighbor. In my building, we have six units and on the end, an elderly woman lives with her adult daughter. Her daughter clearly has some mental problems as shown by her yelling, screaming and muttering. She talks about government conspiracies, or relives some kind of trauma, by having the same conversation over and over. This talking to herself and yelling happens at night, during the day, and early morning (6:15 today).

The main issue is that often this happens after 10 p.m. I have called the police as have a few other neighbors. She usually is not yelling by the time the police arrive. The police are not much help. The yelling is so loud it can be heard through closed windows and doors. Our HOA does not know what to do other than fine the owner, the elderly woman. The owner then pays her fine. Is there something else that we could do? Thanks to this woman, I have missed many hours of sleep, especially last night. Her yelling also scares my small children, ages 6 and 3, some of the time.

SimonB(Cal) " . . . Our HOA does not know what to do other than fine the owner, the elderly woman. The owner then pays her fine. Is there something else that we could do ? Thanks to this woman, I have missed many hours of sleep, especially last night. Her yelling also scares my small children, ages 6 and 3, some of the time"

The California posters should have interesting comments about this. Shows that sometimes fines are ineffective. If the disorder is entitled to "accommodation" (sucking it up) to the point of undue hardship, then the challenge would be to amass enough credible evidence to get a court or adjudication ordered compulsory unit sale, - IF - if such is within California judicial power.

Sounds scarey but the neighbours & council of one of our jurisdictions did exactly that last year. They obtained a court order that the parent & autistic child involved - both established disruptive beyond undue hardship - be expelled and their unit sold.

Sorry but that is so sad and terrible to hear that you fine a neighbor because of a mental/medical issues... What does fining do? This is not a punishable situation where it's causing monetary damages. Plus your HOA most likely can't lien or foreclose for fines. So it's not like they don't pay the fines, you have the right to kick/remove them...

I know first hand how it is to deal with a mentally ill persons. The laws are extremely frustrating and lacking. An adult typically can not be locked up or put in a mental health facility unless on their own free will. It is hard to get any kind of short court order to force the issue into a hospital. The mentally ill have rights to.

I would seek out mental ill advocates organizations. They may have the most up to date information on how to deal with this situation. Most recognize the short comings of the law and the importance of also treating the mentally ill with some level of respect. They may offer some guidance or support to the mother and daughter. It could be in the way of making sure someone visits to make sure the daughter is taking her meds correctly. It may be someone to just sit and listen...

It's about time to stop fining someone for a situation out of their control. Instead show some humanity and take the time to realize one simple change of tolerance or understanding can go much longer way...

Good point by Melissa : "It's about time to stop fining someone for a situation out of their control." If there really is a genuine disability requiring "accommodation", even a half competent lawyer or paralegal can cause you a lot of grief . . .

Thanks Geno. I have tolerated it a bunch. I probably could have officially complained 30-40 times in the last year, but have only twice.

I came on here to find out if there is anything else an HOA board could do, that they don't know about. Does anyone have ideas about this?

This woman negatively affects at least 10-15 people. She can control it too. She stops sometimes when I've yelled out the window. I bought my place here and she isn't even a homeowner - her mother is.

Many police agencies train some or all of their officers in what is called CIT Training (Crisis Intervention Team). Your local police or sheriff should be contacted to see if they are trained. If so, they may be able to respond quickly to your next complaint and the desired outcome is not to arrest her but to get her some help. There is the possibility that the daughter is mentally ill but not getting any treatment. The mom may be so used to it or embarrassed that she has never attempted to get help for her situation, Luckily there are mental health facilities that can try to help. The officers may decide to issue her an appearance ticket (instead of arresting her for whatever charge they can come up with in your area since jail is not the place for mentally ill people) with the goal of getting her into a Mental Health Court. That would be great because she could get plenty of services including possibly housing elsewhere. She may be yelling at the voices in her head and I realize it is disturbing you and your kids but this situation needs compassion and some help from your local law enforcement.

"If doubled, fines will work. We kept doubling the fines of 3 party renter guys in a unit for noise and when they reached $1600 they wrote a note to management and said they were moving back to a house in the 'burbs; they just weren't the type for condo living."

There is a debate about this. Fines may work to slow or halt sociopaths like above.

But if it is illness or the ( reverse caregiver ?) parent's inability to control or medicate, all fines may do is empty the caregiver's pockets without halting the disturbance. If there is a Public Guardian or Official Trustee etc, why not try that route.

Simon,

I understand your frustration as constant interrupted sleep is not healthy. My first house had railroad tracks just beyond my back yard. They were busy tracks and they even shook the house when they went by. Fans really worked. I had small children then and we all slept much better with the fans. There is something about that hum of the fan that helped us sleep and muffled the noise of the train.. To this day we all sleep with fans and have a hard time sleeping without them. My grandkids have even picked up the habit. Maybe worth a try.

My husband and I both have cell phones so we hear any weather alerts or Amber alerts above the fan noise. But then my husband can sleep thru just about anything. Once he slept thru fireworks that the kids were setting off right close to the lawn chair he was siting upright in LOL

Usually the person who petitions the court must be a relative. What I was trying to point out was that law enforcement specially trained in this area can issue an appearance ticket for pretty much any petty crime they can think of at the time, and that puts the daughter in the criminal justice system where she can get court ordered help. I did not google this stuff (not trying to insult or minimize your answer), I work in the criminal justice field and this is a viable option that the poster should try. Do not call 911....call the law enforcement number and ask to speak to someone who is CIT trained or who is on a mental health team. That person can give you the best advise for your area.

Ann and some others have got it right on the button : ( " Fining isn't going to stop a mentally ill person from yelling. . . ." ) The facts here may be different or not.

Tough as it might already be to sometimes halt comparatively 'unchallenged' disturbers, there is a huge extra load the further along many legal systems, just for starters.

Judges don't usually feel comfortable throwing ill disrupters onto the street largely for illness-generated havoc, because it is merely shifting problems elsewhere. Underlying also may be a fear of misuse of consent & capacity processes just to end a mere 'complaints' issue.

I looked longingly & hard at the (capacity) process within my own jurisdiction to address a potential physical danger in absence of relatives outside the prison system. I was struck by the deliberate costs, complexity and implied risks built into that process if being sought merely by a landlord, property manager etc. Being caught punishing and expelling for illness and contrary to technicals, may attract opportunistic pro bono lawyers like bears to honey.

The supervised medication or shifting-out or whatever may have to be best left to the OPs lawyer (if at all ) and other disturber's relatives/friends if supportive.

Steady fines, imo, may nudge the mother into getting better and different help for her disturbed daughter. The OP shouldn't have to have his life disrupted constantly by noise nuisances no what the source.

Some of the resources other posters have provided look very good!