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Can our Board demanding me not to communicate with our property manager using email?

Started by BrendaL5 โ€ข 19 replies โ€ข 2396 views

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BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hi, I was on issues related to updated Bylaws & CC&Rs, etc. in our HOA earlier this year. Thanks for everyone's input. Our Board got enough ballots and is in the process to get Judge's approval.

Late April I got a letter from Association's attorney prohibiting me from communicating with our community manager via email, all future communications must go through U.S. mail or go to the monthly Board meeting. Can they do that using the reason that I've wasted too much of our community manager's precious time? Right around that time, I asked to see our accounting record. I was trying to re-construct an inventory list; the result of no one knows where about of an expensive equipment that I thought we bought years ago and no one knows there's even an inventory list exist. Obviously, the Board is trying to make it difficult for me to access our accounting records.

We, a 200 units community in CA, were in the process of going out knocking everyone's door to get updated Bylaws & CC&Rs ballots back then (I was in the Rules committee). I I did not agree with certain important issues that caused the corruption in our community and I decided to pass out the flyer to H.O. encouraging them to vote against the update when I received attorney's letter.

The day I left for my trip in early May, I received a Friendly Reminder from our community manager that some neighbors complaint that my garbage cans blocked their carports. A lie since I didn't leave my cans in front of anyone's carport. Obviously, a retaliation of my flyer.

Meanwhile, someone in our community sent out postcards to all of the H.O. asking for a total recall of our Board of Directors when I was away. A couple of neighbors asked me to move as the result (one of them in the Rules committee that went online to stab me when I was running for our Board of Director earlier).

I also found that I've been kicking out of both Rules & Finance committees when I came back from my 1 1/2 month trip abroad late June.

It's time to deal with these issues. Question:

1. Is it legal for our Board to demand me not using email to communicate? The Association encourage people to use email communication.

2. Our old, current Bylaws does not specify how many years of record an owner can access. Per our community manager only 3 years is allowed, under Davis-Sterling Act. The Board estimated it will take 3 months for the judge to okay our proposed update, i.e. around Sept. the updated documents will be officially adopted.

It's time to deal with these issues. Any comments is greatly appreciated.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Your management company works for the BOARD NOT you as an individual. The HOA board is to tell the management company what to do. They are hired contractors to the board/HOA. So yes, they can request you communicate through them instead of directly to the management company. It's called "Chain of command". Which you need to understand that relationship.


Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Brenda,

The HOA attorney has no lawful authority to dictate how you communicate with anyone. The recipient, however, may choose to ignore, block, or not respond to your messages.

If you are on the board and a majority of the board feels you are sending too many requests to the community manager, the board may pass a resolution limiting your activities. Until such time, you have no obligation to follow the dictates of the attorney. He is there to advise the board and not to take the place of the board.

Technically, the board cannot limit your activities but they might advise the community manager to ignore requests from individual board members unless the requests have been approved by the board. I have seen that happen when a board member is perceived, rightly or wrongly, to be a pest.

Regarding the records: This comes from Davis-Stirling:
"Records are the property of the association and members are limited on how far back in time they can request records. Members may only request records for the current fiscal year, and the previous two (2) fiscal years. (Civ. Code ยง5210.) This limitation does not apply to minutes."

Source: http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/1575/Default.aspx#ixzz3fzCP8IY9
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, it sounds like you are not on the board, correct, Brenda?

The board must feel very strongly that you send too many emails to the PM for it to hire an attorney to ask you to cease & desist. I don't see how there'd be anything "illegal" about it. But as Larry pointed out, it would have been cheaper for your HOA if the board simply directed the PM to not reply to your emails.

Why is US mail a problem for you, Brenda? And why do you not submit requests in writing to have various topics placed on the board's open meeting agenda?

(In the HOAs, that I know about that have PMs, Melissa, the PM does handle correspondence & emails from owners. It's sure in our contract with our MC!)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
And Larry also found a good citation for you, Brenda. The Board need not supply any records any further back than what Larry quoted (except for meeting minutes).

I'm not understanding the relationship among your search for records, being kept form emailing the PM and the vote to update your documents. Very murky to me!
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Brenda

As a owner of a management company, and more importantly, from personal experience, I'll try and answer your question(s)

As someone pointed out, incorrectly I might add, the PM works FOR the association and its members, BUT is given direction through its elected BOD.

Since the BOD and PM won't respond to you except at a Board meeting, here is what I would ask.

1) Did the BOD give direction to the PM not to communicate via email or phone with you?
2) If they didn't, did the PM, acting on their own, contact the association's attorney, using association funds to have them write you this letter?

Sorry to say, some PM's wrongly get involved in the politics of an association when they shouldn't. If the association has too many internal, it might be best for them to run things on their owe. In the end, and under this scenario, the association and its members lose.

Most arrangements I have with associations, is they are the POINT person in handling all association manners, such as correctly billing errors, making payments, getting access to association records, getting replacement keys or remotes, etc. Most associations that employ management companies don't have Board email address available to them. They want to be Board members, BUT don't want to be bothered.

When I changed the Bylaws in 2010, the management company and the attorney came after me. I did what everyone here said to do, get community support and by-in. Out of 317 homes, we got support from over 240 homes. As they say, we put our money where our mouth was.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thank you for confirming the 3 years look back period. I knew about the Davis-Sterling site info but not sure about if that applies to our current Bylaws since it was written about 50 years ago.

What about made up claim of neighbors' complain about my garbage cans blocking their carports by the Association? A total lie since I don't leave my cans in front of anyone's carport. I'm sure they can use the excuse of protecting neighbors to not giving out names. Is there any thing I can do other then knocking neighbor's door to get the signatures to proof the Board made things up?

I did ask all kinds of information after I found out our community was managed poorly. I started to volunteer in our Rules & Finance committees about 1 1/2 years ago (result of being mistreated in a board meeting when I brought up the unethical behavior of our then Maintenance Manager, instead of listening to my complaint, one of the Board members questioned my honesty). Examples of poor management: Over billing, no detailed breakdown on vendor's billing, no supporting documents to back up the billings, ridiculer high amount limit that allowed our managers to hire/initiate works without Board's approval ($5,000 for P.M. & $2,500 for M.M., the amount has been reduced to $500 since my finding), etc.

More Background:
Previous President (sitting on that position for over 10 or 12 years) and the Board of Director (6 years) who protected our then M.M. stepped down last year.
Both M.M. & P.M. were finally let go because of poor performance under new Board. (M.M., worked for us for 10 years, is the son of 2 of our committee chairs, both won't let go of positions, dad finally given up because of disability, mom actually die on the job, in her late 80s. P.M. was referred by previous P.M. when he retired, previous P.M. came in through connection with then Board of Director, ...)

The new Board hired 2 new managers. M.M. was let go a couple of month back. New P.M., got in last July through personal connection with our new President, stays on the position as part time contractor, got $4,000 bonus (equivalent of her regular 1 month pay) last year for working 6 month, part time. This year, the Association spent $2,600 sent her to school to learn more about managing our property), and her pay is bumped from $5,000 per month for regular, routine stuff (there are additional pay for non-routine stuff of $50 an hour), a 20% increase, after 6 month part time contract, from last year. Anyone knows the current market rate?

I recently asked for records in order to figure out how much inventory we have on top of other things. Bottom line, the board wants to forget (cover up) about what's going on and I want to find out what's going on.

Never thought being kicking out of our committees because I care too much.

BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
By the way, those managers are all individuals, independent contractor, not our employees.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Brenda

From experience, question authority, bad things can and most likely happen.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
You are right. What do you do when obviously the management team is corrupted. Our problem is we have unlimited term limits. The Board hired friends and appointed friends as committee chair and push people out when they have different ideas. Meanwhile, use the excuse of not enough volunteers to keep the unlimited term limits.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Change can only come through elections. If reaching quorum is an issue as is with most communities, then you will need to gather support. Realize though, you have now become the enemy. Be careful on how you tread.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
btw, current board of directors consists of 2 served over 10+ years, 1 over 5 years, 1 on the 3rd year. New member is appointed after serving as finance committee chair and in the rules committee for who knows how long, a guy who wanted to intervene H.O.'s in-home renovation, a guy who actually said "let them (H.O.) sue, who's going to sue anyway. Problem we have is no one goes to the monthly Board meeting other than committee chairs nowadays. H.O. only shows up when there's something really affect them personally, Board members want to sit on the chairs but do not want to spend more time to listen and do not want any changes.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks, Richard.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Brenda

I have no issue with the length of time an individual serves their community as long as they are doing so with the best interests of the community and the elections are open and fair.

Why punish someone if they are doing a good job and while others sit on the sidelines waiting for someone to serve them.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
I agree with you totally. I should have mentioned one director that sits there over 10 years is our Treasurer who sits in the finance committee as liaison, who kept on signing the checks without raising questions on the invoices that had no detailed breakdown, no supporting documents to back up the billings, and know nothing about inventory of our community.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Personally,

When requesting records, I prefer using letters over e-mail.

Since you have been told to utilize the USMail, I would now send everything certified via the registered agent of the Association (vs. the MC or Board). This gives you documentation when the letter was received and a known time for the clock to start.

In regards to the lawyers cease and desist letter, that would be the first step in documenting an issue of a nuisance or harassment. Cease and Desist letters are often use to threaten legal action if the activity continues. The next step would be a restraining order.

My advice is to utilize the US Mail. As I said, I would also send everything certified to the registered agent.

As for the issue of length of records request, the MC is correct.

Per CA Civil Code 5210 (scroll down the page), a member is only allowed to review records of the current and last two (2) years. The only exception is minutes which can be for any time frame.

A good resource for CA information is the davis-stirling website.

Keep in mind that if a record doesn't exist, the Association is under no obligation to create a document for you.

As for the issue of a judge reviewing the proposed Bylaws, I'm not sure why a judge would be involved. However, I don't follow CA requirements as closely as I do my own State.

Hope this helps,

Tim

BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Btw, our President is the one in the 5th year as a member of Board of Director, 2nd year as President, the one who continue to sign (without looking into the contents signed by previous President until I requested to see our managers' contracts) the contracts of our previous managers that allowed them the authorities to initiated works with contractors for anything below $2,500 and $5,000 without Board's prior approval. The one on the 3rd year as member of the Board of Directors is the one who told me to forget about it (i.e. not to complain about previous maintenance manager's unethical, unprofessional behavior because his mom was terminally ill) and turned against me while I did not listen to her. Obviously, the length of terms served is not necessary the right reason to use to blame those who serve without H.O.s' interests in mind.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
The HOA attorney has no lawful authority to dictate how you communicate with anyone. The recipient, however, may choose to ignore, block, or not respond to your messages.


D'OH
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks Tim & Pit.
BrendaL5 (California)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks Tim & Pit.

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