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AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Here is our bylaws:

17.4 (3)
Fencing or other imprudent obstructing devices across driveway , or which will interfere with the use of the driveways or garages , are not desired and must have special approval of the Committee .

I been told by the HOA when I was asking for approval :clearly interpret the by-laws to forbid any encumbrance on the driveway between the entrance and the garage.

In my opinion, it is not.
1, not clearly because didn't say gate
2, didn't stated no, it said the board can approve it.

How can I win this, i need a gate because too many burglary lately in my neighborhood . We live in TX , if it helps.
I attached a photo.
[IMG]http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae342/Atti_Mac/20150614_163458.jpg[/IMG]
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
see an attorney
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
It is too expensive... $225 / hour for a simple question ?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AttilaC on 07/14/2015 1:37 PM
It is too expensive... $225 / hour for a simple question ?

Aww gee! Try 1-800-CRY-ME-A-RIVER

You bought the big house and the big pickup and the minivan and the gate but you cannot afford to protect your assets with a visit to an attorney. What a shame!

BTW, for the last year my wife and I have had two attorneys in Philadelphia handling some legal matters for us. One charges $350 per hour and the other $500 an hour. $225 an hour is a bargain.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
...I must be contagious...
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you sure your bylaw says "imprudent"? Just curious. In any case it looks like you were warned before you bought your place that impediments aren't welcome, which does give the Board or ARC the authority to deny your request.

Did your follow your HOA's guidelines about submitting your architectural change request?

It wouldn't be a simple question for an attorney because s/he's going to have to review a lot of your HOA documents before giving an answer.

Whether or not you have a big house, SUV, etc., is none of our business--just Larry jumping to conclusions that are irrelevant.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Attila,

If your looking for a legal opinion, you need to ask an attorney. You will not get a legal opinion on this site.

Based on what you provided, I do believe that you are correct that a gate across the driveway is not prohibited. However, it does say that they are not desired and that any such gate requires special approval.

You requested said approval and the request was denied.

It was denied because, as your Bylaws say, they are not desirable and, apparently, you haven't provided enough of a reason for the Board/Committee to grant such request.

Now for your options concerning this issue:

1) Get yourself elected to the Board so you can be part of the decision process to perhaps change the opinion that said gates are not desirable.

2) Get yourself appointed to the approving Committee so you can be part of the decision process to perhaps change the opinion that said gates are not desirable.

3) Spend funds to consult with a local attorney who will have access to all of your governing documents, is knowledgeable of applicable laws and cases, and can provide you with options through the legal system.

4) Instal the gate without prior approval and hope that the Association doesn't take legal action against you to force removal or that, once built, any legal action can result in a compromise that will allow you to keep the gate. Please note, that even though this is an option it is not one I recommend. If this option is exercised, it would likely cost you far more than the $225 you don't want to spend for an actual legal opinion. Worst case, it may even cost you your home.

AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Larry, just for the record. I work offshore and they cut our hours and hour pay. So I have 2 jobs now to able to pay the mortgage. So think before you say something...
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
You don't need a lawyer to find out that a gate is an obstructing device.

The rest of the text (which I assumed was not word for word) says to me that the board is unlikely to approve a gate.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> imprudent obstructing devices

I'm still trying to guess what the text really was. Impudent? Impotent?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:

IMPRUDENT:

: not prudent : lacking discretion, wisdom, or good judgment

Synonyms
brash, graceless, ill-advised, indiscreet, inadvisable, indelicate, injudicious, tactless, undiplomatic, unwise
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
imprudent
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
This is why I asked , because I wasn't sure what does at cover . I thought they only against fence over the driveway , or something permanent. Gate can be open, so it didn't make a point. Especially when at least other 15 people has gate in my neighborhood...
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Atilla

What do you not understand about:

and must have special approval of the Committee

You asked, they said no.
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
But they said the reason their "NO" is because the bylaws! The bylaws stated the board can approve it! Others have it, so I wanted to know why they are discriminating me...
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AttilaC on 07/14/2015 6:22 PM

Especially when at least other 15 people has gate in my neighborhood...

That makes a difference.

Expecting that your gate is no different then those already approved, I would suggest that you resubmit your request (or appeal the decision to the Board) stating that you are not asking for anything different then what has been approved for others in the past. Provide pictures, along with addresses of the other gates.

Now, if your gate is different then what has been approved in the past, ask what you need to do to be allowed what others have already been allowed to have, as you don't believe it was the Board's intention to selectively enforce a covenant.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> brash, graceless, ill-advised, indiscreet, inadvisable, indelicate, injudicious, tactless, undiplomatic, unwise

Well, yeah, but NONE of these seem to be a particularly good adjective to apply to a fence.

Maybe graceless (because a feathery fence could be graceful).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good one, Fred. I do know what imprudent means, but it's such odd usage.

Attila, again: Are you sure you applied EXACTLY as required by your documents?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Just because it says the board is to approve does NOT mean they have to. It is up to their discretion on what they approve or not. You don't know the situation with the other fences except the people have them. Do you know if they are being fined for it? Have they been told to remove them? Were they grandfathered in? Does their location make sense to have? I know in our HOA what may work for one home does not work for others. Would you be the only one in your section to have it? That would look very odd and potentially unattractive to potential buyers.

So not giving enough details of the situation. Seems to me there is more reason to the denial than you are stating.

Former HOA President
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Yes, I found exact same layout Gates than mine , this is how I got an idea. Nobody ever asked for any permission, and the board only "complained) about 1 of those because it was 8' high. It is only 1 person in the board who is a very disgusting person, and she was actually all against it. I will find out tonight if she even a board member or just a "secretary" of the office, because in that case she had no right to vote against me. It is all personal, nothing to do with the gate.... I will go and hire a lawyer , I am tired to listening them, It is my house, my life, and If they want me to take the gate down, they have to show they do with all the others .
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
AttilaC Texas :

1- IF you cannot persuade an approval out of the committee nor new bylaws/ replacement Board members out of your fellow owners, at some point continuing will require that you develop or hire skillsets to challenge the validity of the by-law or of your HOA/condo or of both. respectfully , do Texas paralegals or lawyers work for free ? Does anyone else ?

2- Have you already erected the fence & gate ? Is what is shown in the photos what you already have in place or that you want to install ? No wonder the HOA refused. I would hate to live opposite that. Is it really privacy that you want ?

3 If its security, what makes you think a fence will meaningfully deter thieves & trespassers ? Dont' you live in Texas ? open carry for pre-schoolers etc ?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Attila

Is there a fence height restriction in your HOA? I have rarely seen an HOA that allows fences over 6ft tall.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
While I was posting the preceding, you indicated that the gate is actually already in place.

There is a difference between these :

"Once upon a time such fences & gates were legal if prior approved by our committee. We treat all applicants the same even though our criteria may evolve. We are not prisoners of the past. The same yardstick is applied uniformly even if the criteria may evolve from time to time "

vs

"Because we are biased we are refusing your request. If somebody else made it today we might approve it"
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again my advice is: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... It is NOT all about you and what you want. It's about what the community of which you live wants. If your okay with the consequences of a lawsuit to get your way, then go for it. However, once you realize the battle isn't worth the war, and you don't win anyone on your side... you may want to rethink your desires...

Former HOA President
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Well the thing is lot's of people in my neighborhood is on my side, and lot's of them tired of this people in the office. We will going together few of us tomorrow to the meeting, and will see what is going on. I think it is a time for changes...
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
In addition to Tim's list of possible actions, I would like to add one. Gather support of your fellow homeowners to amend the Covenants to specifically allow gates.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AttilaC (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posted:
This is what I try to do actually, get the community together , and get enough signatures.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AttilaC on 07/15/2015 12:06 PM
This is what I try to do actually, get the community together , and get enough signatures.

You need to read your CC&R's and state law very closely as to how the Covenants may be amended, in some places it it done by ballot but in others the homeowners must sign a document stating their affirmative vote, it must then be filed with the County Recorder's office. There may also be a requirement to get approval of the mortgage holders, a simple petition won't be enough.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

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