BarbaraM21 (California)
Posts: 39
Posts: 39
Posted:
President refuses to put his/her name on a "fine" letter from HOA for breaking rules. Who should sign, if anyone? I think it's his/her job!
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What if President doesn't want to sign letters issuing fines?
Started by BarbaraM21 • 22 replies • 2931 views
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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If there is not a separate enforcement committee, then simply sign the letter "the Board of Directors" with no actual signature.
Technically, it would be typical for the President to sign communications on behalf of the Board. However, the Secretary could sign as well.
As I suggested, there are many letters that we don't have an actual signature on, simply ending the letter:
Thank you,
The Board of Directors
OR
Thank you,
The 2015 Board of Directors
Technically, it would be typical for the President to sign communications on behalf of the Board. However, the Secretary could sign as well.
As I suggested, there are many letters that we don't have an actual signature on, simply ending the letter:
Thank you,
The Board of Directors
OR
Thank you,
The 2015 Board of Directors
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
+ the corporate seal +
KimR4 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 07/12/2015 4:13 PM
+ the corporate seal +
+ the corporate seal +
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
The notice is being sent out by the board. The President need not sign the violation. Simply sign the notice from the _________ _______ Board of Directors.
Don't concern yourself with finding or using the corporate seal. Waste of time.
Don't concern yourself with finding or using the corporate seal. Waste of time.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimR4 on 07/12/2015 5:16 PM
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
Our Bylaws say the Secretary shall have custody of the corporate seal. I'm the secretary and I've never seen it. I know it used to exist because some of our document amendments over the year have it impressed on them, but as for where the thing is physically today? It might as well be on Mars for all anyone here knows.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 07/12/2015 7:48 PM
Posted By KimR4 on 07/12/2015 5:16 PM
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
Our Bylaws say the Secretary shall have custody of the corporate seal. I'm the secretary and I've never seen it. I know it used to exist because some of our document amendments over the year have it impressed on them, but as for where the thing is physically today? It might as well be on Mars for all anyone here knows.
Can have one made at Staples for $30 to replace the lost one.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimR4 on 07/12/2015 5:16 PM
Posted By PitA on 07/12/2015 4:13 PM
+ the corporate seal +
+ the corporate seal +
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
We have one.
To my knowledge, it hasn't been used.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
w/o an actual signature it is not an official/actual corporate document
generally, no one wants to sign and be the 'bad guy'
the seal acts as a signature
therefor:
use 'Board of Directors' above the seal's impression
or
imbibe some testosterone and sign the document
generally, no one wants to sign and be the 'bad guy'
the seal acts as a signature
therefor:
use 'Board of Directors' above the seal's impression
or
imbibe some testosterone and sign the document
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posts: 457
Posted:
I believe the capabilities of the internet has voided the corp. seal useless because you can look the corp up for it's "standing" with the state. Which is what banks now do, they look up the state charter or it's equivalent, per the Patriot Act to make sure it's legit.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Physical SEALs may have been abolished as validating a sale or lease transaction within some of your jurisdictions, as it was in mine 30 years ago as an essential for conveyancing.
If your jurisdiction provides that the Indoor Management Rule allows condos/ maybe other to later merrily repudiate substantial agreements signed without a Board Resolution & Affidavit, then contractors/ utility companies etc are assuming some degree of risk if they ignore lack of those formal attachments from times of illiteracy etc. Suppliers in many jurisdictions relying on biggy contracts, run additional risks ( if deals later go sour or Board changes) without attached resolution & affidavit of authority to execute bindingly.
( How much protection either way ? One condo management company here faked entire Resolutions & borrowing by-laws, then cheated lenders who relied on title-registered genuine loans fraudulently secured by these fake commitments. He fled four years ago to Bangladesh beyond extradition. )
Notices are a different matter. Worth checking to rule out seals or attached resolution or literal requirement within state laws and/or site-specific governance documents.
If your jurisdiction provides that the Indoor Management Rule allows condos/ maybe other to later merrily repudiate substantial agreements signed without a Board Resolution & Affidavit, then contractors/ utility companies etc are assuming some degree of risk if they ignore lack of those formal attachments from times of illiteracy etc. Suppliers in many jurisdictions relying on biggy contracts, run additional risks ( if deals later go sour or Board changes) without attached resolution & affidavit of authority to execute bindingly.
( How much protection either way ? One condo management company here faked entire Resolutions & borrowing by-laws, then cheated lenders who relied on title-registered genuine loans fraudulently secured by these fake commitments. He fled four years ago to Bangladesh beyond extradition. )
Notices are a different matter. Worth checking to rule out seals or attached resolution or literal requirement within state laws and/or site-specific governance documents.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
forgot to add : the fraudster above fled with $ 21.6 Millions cheated from lenders whose claims were left on condo corporation titles. As contracted property management company he possibly could have had access to seals even if had needed them.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 07/13/2015 6:32 AM
Notices are a different matter. Worth checking to rule out seals or attached resolution or literal requirement within state laws and/or site-specific governance documents.
Notices are a different matter. Worth checking to rule out seals or attached resolution or literal requirement within state laws and/or site-specific governance documents.
Good point Bob.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
nope - only the secretary should have access to seal
just like - only the treasurer/BOD should have access to funds
in the case of 'my' HOA the seal is used in lieu of signature
the HOA then becomes the 'bad guy', not the signer
just like - only the treasurer/BOD should have access to funds
in the case of 'my' HOA the seal is used in lieu of signature
the HOA then becomes the 'bad guy', not the signer
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
ps.
the seal is not required
it is, however, authorized by our CCRs and recommended by the SC Sec. of State
the seal is not required
it is, however, authorized by our CCRs and recommended by the SC Sec. of State
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Seals misused (or duplicated for fraud)& Bogus documents are dangers out there needing vigilence. Some jurisdictions have even legalized "electronic signatures" to actually & formally bind as mine did for realty agreements 13 days ago. Directors need to be 'on top of things' more than ever.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Keep in mind that there is another option:
If the President doesn't want to perform all the duties of their office, ask them to step down or motion that they be removed as President.
If the President doesn't want to perform all the duties of their office, ask them to step down or motion that they be removed as President.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yeah, Tim, this is the same prez who, according to Barbara on a different post --on his own--hired the VP to do installation do a slider on a non-complying home
DennisG7 (Georgia)
Posts: 155
Posts: 155
Posted:
One of the five things in life that really tick me off...no signature! That way there is no one to blame or take responsibility. I see the unsinged letter every where. Heck they put my name at the top of the letter, where is the person that composed and sent it. In the military we used call it the blame line. If the HOA President refuses to sign it or the Secretary, time to get a replacement.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
DITTO
however
Corporate Seal
Similar to a state seal, the corporate seal was the official mark of the corporation. Since a corporation is considered a separate entity, the corporate seal acted as the signature of the corporation. Any legal or official document that emanated from the corporation required a corporate seal. Individuals were not allowed to authorize certain corporate acts and so a corporate seal was necessary to prove corporate authority. However, as business became more fluid and as technology ushered in the digital age, the corporate seal became obsolete and to a certain extent, a hindrance. Today, a corporate seal may be used for deeds and for bank accounts, but even these uses of the corporate seal are becoming more and more rare. Rather than a corporate seal, state laws recognize the signature of an individual(s) with actual authority (i.e. CEO, director) as binding upon the corporation. Corporate seals in the past were imprinted on wax upon a document. As time passed, rubber stamps were preferred and today, most corporate seals are embossed upon a document. Although no longer required, the corporate seal still retains a sense of authenticity and a mark of identity for a corporation. - See more at: http://www.mycorporation.com/learningcenter/is-a-corporate-seal-required.jsp#sthash.gV906MsA.dpuf
while no longer REQUIRED, it is still a good idea to have and use
however
Corporate Seal
Similar to a state seal, the corporate seal was the official mark of the corporation. Since a corporation is considered a separate entity, the corporate seal acted as the signature of the corporation. Any legal or official document that emanated from the corporation required a corporate seal. Individuals were not allowed to authorize certain corporate acts and so a corporate seal was necessary to prove corporate authority. However, as business became more fluid and as technology ushered in the digital age, the corporate seal became obsolete and to a certain extent, a hindrance. Today, a corporate seal may be used for deeds and for bank accounts, but even these uses of the corporate seal are becoming more and more rare. Rather than a corporate seal, state laws recognize the signature of an individual(s) with actual authority (i.e. CEO, director) as binding upon the corporation. Corporate seals in the past were imprinted on wax upon a document. As time passed, rubber stamps were preferred and today, most corporate seals are embossed upon a document. Although no longer required, the corporate seal still retains a sense of authenticity and a mark of identity for a corporation. - See more at: http://www.mycorporation.com/learningcenter/is-a-corporate-seal-required.jsp#sthash.gV906MsA.dpuf
while no longer REQUIRED, it is still a good idea to have and use
BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimR4 on 07/12/2015 5:16 PM
Posted By PitA on 07/12/2015 4:13 PM
+ the corporate seal +
+ the corporate seal +
Oh lord. Dare I ask? Do hoas have corporate seals? Going into my fourth year on the board. Haven't seen or used a corporate seal.
Our documents prevent us from having a corporate seal.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
? The exact wording of said restriction ?
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