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DebbiC (Illinois)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I was approached by home owners in our chicago condo to run for a position on the board.

The present board has been in that position for over 5 years and don't seem to know anything about running a condo assn.

We are self managed at the present time.

I was told that we do not have D&O Insurance, so I told them that I would run once I was guaranteed that they had D&O Insurance.

Is there anyone who you can report them to, because they do not have sufficient insurance. No insurance, no debbi
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Best to verify for yourself whether that coverage is in place.

Normally, standard coverage with a master policy covering the condo.

I would suggest you read your documents to see what insurance coverage is required if any.

Just how many units do you have?

Just curious, you implying this board doesn't know how to run the property suggests you feel your ability to be superior to theirs just wondering where you acquired that insight? Sometimes boards take the easy way out and fail to act because they can't collectively agree on a course or are just in over their heads.

If that should be the case perhaps you might wish to run.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Debbie

The link below should help in new Illinois requirements for Condo associations.

http://www.aaisonline.com/AAISFrame/ConnectFrame/AdvisoryFrame/tabid/143/ArticleID/848/Illinois-Enacts-Condo-Association-Insurance-Requirements.aspx

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
D&O insurance is probably not required, hence nobody would care.
DebbiC (Illinois)
Posts: 10
Posted:
D&O insurance is required in IL
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DebbiC on 06/26/2015 7:24 AM
D&O insurance is required in IL

Source?
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
Mark,

I am sure Debbi can supply the source, but since I had just looked it up, here is the link to the Illinois Act:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2200&ChapterID=62

Sec. 12. Insurance.
(a) Required coverage.

(D) The board of directors must obtain directors and officers liability coverage at a level deemed reasonable by the board, if not otherwise established by the declaration or bylaws. Directors and officers liability coverage must extend to all contracts and other actions taken by the board in their official capacity as directors and officers, but this coverage shall exclude actions for which the directors are not entitled to indemnification under the General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986 or the declaration and bylaws of the association.

(3) Fidelity bond; directors and officers coverage.
(A) An association with 6 or more dwelling units must obtain and maintain a fidelity bond covering persons, including the managing agent and its employees who control or disburse funds of the association, for the maximum amount of coverage available to protect funds in the custody or control of the association, plus the association reserve fund.

------------------

And from the link that RichardP13, California, provided, part of which reads:

Other newly-enacted provisions of the Illinois Condominium Property Act provide that:
Directors and officers (D&O) insurance for condominium associations shall include, but not be limited to, coverage for defense of non-monetary actions, breach of contract, and decisions related to insurance; and Insured status under condo association policies shall extend to past, present, and future board members (acting in their capacity as board members), the managing agent, and employees of the board and managing agent.

----------------------------------------

Also, Mark, would you serve as an Officer or Director on a Homeowner or Condominium Board if there was not D&O Insurance in effect?
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Fidelity insurance is not D&O, and the board can decide that a reasonable amount of directors insurance is zero
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EllieD on 06/26/2015 8:14 AM

Also, Mark, would you serve as an Officer or Director on a Homeowner or Condominium Board if there was not D&O Insurance in effect?

That's not the question. She is looking to where she can report this board. I contend that:
1) There is no office to handle this
2) There is no remedy other than the courts
3) It is possible that no rules are being broken
DebbiC (Illinois)
Posts: 10
Posted:
When I was approached by a board member, I started looking up the IL Condo Act, as well as the Chicago Condo stuff, and Bldg Codes, etc., and found that the present board lacks the knowledge that is listed, and when I told them they could find the info that I asked for, in IL Condo Property Act, I was told that they were not interested in doing any of that. In addition, I was told by other home owners, that they haven't done anything. They hired family members to repair roofs, doors, etc.

I think they just don't care, but liked the way the title looked on their resume.
DebbiC (Illinois)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thank you. And there is a rule in IL that they have to have D&O Insurance, but I didn't know if there was some regulating agency overseeing this. They also have lost their incorporation. I was told that they don't have a copy of the Articles of Incorporation. I can get one from the state, but I would rather not have to pay $25 or $50 for it.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DebbiC on 06/26/2015 5:09 PM
Thank you. And there is a rule in IL that they have to have D&O Insurance, but I didn't know if there was some regulating agency overseeing this. They also have lost their incorporation. I was told that they don't have a copy of the Articles of Incorporation. I can get one from the state, but I would rather not have to pay $25 or $50 for it.

Debbi, a copy of the AIC should be on file with the County Recorder's Office and may be available on-line, to check the current status of the corporation visit the IL Secretary of State's site. Depending on the market and your circumstances I would advise you to sell and move ASAP, way too many red flags flying. But if you can't then, if it were me, I would get on the Board and drag them kicking and screaming into compliance. If they have no D&O insurance, who knows what other coverage they might have let fall to the wayside in an effort to keep from raising assessments. Something else to keep you up at night: Do you know the status of the Reserve Accounts or if they even have budgeted reserves????

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JimR26 (Alabama)
Posts: 27
Posted:
I just looked at the Insurance policy for my HOA. It says that the D&O Liability for Errors and Omissions is $2,000,000 for each D or O. Does that mean they would be covered in the event that the escalated a situation in a willful manner? I don't have anything specific. Only curious.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DebbiC on 06/26/2015 5:09 PM
Thank you. And there is a rule in IL that they have to have D&O Insurance

Please define reasonable, and why zero (i.e.: self insured) is not reasonable
Quote:


(D) The board of directors must obtain directors and officers liability coverage at a level deemed reasonable by the board, if not otherwise established by the declaration or bylaws. Directors and officers liability coverage must extend to all contracts and other actions taken by the board in their official capacity as directors and officers, but this coverage shall exclude actions for which the directors are not entitled to indemnification under the General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986 or the declaration and bylaws of the association.


NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 06/26/2015 7:58 PM
Posted By DebbiC on 06/26/2015 5:09 PM
Thank you. And there is a rule in IL that they have to have D&O Insurance


Please define reasonable, and why zero (i.e.: self insured) is not reasonable
Quote:


(D) The board of directors must obtain directors and officers liability coverage at a level deemed reasonable by the board, if not otherwise established by the declaration or bylaws. Directors and officers liability coverage must extend to all contracts and other actions taken by the board in their official capacity as directors and officers, but this coverage shall exclude actions for which the directors are not entitled to indemnification under the General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986 or the declaration and bylaws of the association.


IMO, zero is not reasonable because, at minimum, the insurance must cover "all contracts and other actions taken by the board in their official capacity ..." That would cost more than zero.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
In your opinion. Others may feel differently.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 06/26/2015 9:23 PM
In your opinion. Others may feel differently.


Others may read the statute differently I suppose, but how they feel is IMO irrelevant.

In the language of the statute, I saw a requirement for insurance coverage - and I merely stated the obvious - that mandatory coverage costs money.

If you read those words differently Mark, I'm interested in learning how you read them. Perhaps you can convince me that another interpretation is also viable.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
I read it as vague and toothless: "a reasonable amount t decided on by the board". There is no metric there, if the individuals feel they are able to self-insure, then the reasonable amount is zero, and there is no mechanism in the law to say otherwise.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 06/26/2015 10:28 PM
I read it as vague and toothless: "a reasonable amount t decided on by the board". There is no metric there, if the individuals feel they are able to self-insure, then the reasonable amount is zero, and there is no mechanism in the law to say otherwise.


It seems that you are trying to read the words "Directors and officers liability coverage must extend to all contracts and other actions taken by the board in their official capacity as directors and officers" out of the statute as if they don't exist. IMO, that's a rewrite, not an interpretation. While you may think they are vague and toothless, they are the statute - Any attempt to give meaning to the actual language should be attempted before throwing inconvenient parts away.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 06/26/2015 10:28 PM
I read it as vague and toothless: "a reasonable amount t decided on by the board". There is no metric there, if the individuals feel they are able to self-insure, then the reasonable amount is zero, and there is no mechanism in the law to say otherwise.

Mark,

If you want to recommend to individuals in Illinois to self insure, go and price one of those policies at $2M. Not cheap and you want them to volunteer their time. Are you for real?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Does that mean they would be covered in the event that the escalated a situation in a willful manner?


NO, they would NOT be covered for malfeasance.

Nor would they be covered for nonfeasance.

They are, however, covered for misfeasance.

Hence the reason said coverage is sometimes known as 'errors and omissions' coverage.

if y'all doubt this info: READ THE ACTUAL POLICY (not the declarations or synopsis)
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 06/26/2015 11:04 PM
Posted By MarkM31 on 06/26/2015 10:28 PM
I read it as vague and toothless: "a reasonable amount t decided on by the board". There is no metric there, if the individuals feel they are able to self-insure, then the reasonable amount is zero, and there is no mechanism in the law to say otherwise.


Mark,

If you want to recommend to individuals in Illinois to self insure, go and price one of those policies at $2M. Not cheap and you want them to volunteer their time. Are you for real?

Put words in my mouth why don't you.

The OP was complaining that her HOA did not have D&O insurance, and was looking for a place to report them to. I was demonstrating that not only is there no office to report them to, I was showing how toothless and liable to interpretation the Illinois law is.

Debbi should point out to the board and the membership at large how the lack of D&O insurance is probably limiting those who wish to participate.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Lots of states pass laws regulating HOAs, but for the most part, there doesn't seem to be much enforcement, there typically isn't a state "HOA Police" that you can contact when the rules are broken. You could try the State Attorney's office, but I don't recall ever reading any threads here or elsewhere where the SA actually took any action. Unfortunately, that leaves enforcement to lawsuit in the civil courts.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TinaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/28/2015 7:01 PM
Lots of states pass laws regulating HOAs, but for the most part, there doesn't seem to be much enforcement, there typically isn't a state "HOA Police" that you can contact when the rules are broken. You could try the State Attorney's office, but I don't recall ever reading any threads here or elsewhere where the SA actually took any action. Unfortunately, that leaves enforcement to lawsuit in the civil courts.

I'm finding this to be all too true in Florida, even the arbitration is a joke, the state is not helpful at all.
JimR26 (Alabama)
Posts: 27
Posted:
Douglas ... I think you have arrived at the most intelligent position of anything I've ever read on this site.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Legal action is one path, JimR, but can be time consuming and expensive. We eliminated our rogue Board by voting the bums out via several of us newer owners banding together, studying our governing documents, launching good candidates and mailing out forceful, factual campaign letters. We took it to the people. Sure it took over a year, but our HOA was an still is stronger for it!

We also held the bad board's heels to the fire at every monthly board mtng. (must be open in CA). We asked valid carefully worded important questions of directors and their answers (or fumbled attempts to answer) showed other Owners that those directors were both ignorant & arrogant. we took it to the people in that way too.

Acting alone through the courts is the "American" way, but....so acting together to make change via the vote.

And so, JimR, what is or was your leadership role in your HOA?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimR26 on 06/26/2015 7:53 PM
I just looked at the Insurance policy for my HOA. It says that the D&O Liability for Errors and Omissions is $2,000,000 for each D or O. Does that mean they would be covered in the event that the escalated a situation in a willful manner? I don't have anything specific. Only curious.

It depends if the policy is inclusive or exclusive.

One will cover all defense costs and judgments up to $2 Mil. cap.
The other will cover a judgement up to 2 Mil. and all defense costs regardless of the amount.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
neither type will cover malfeasance

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