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JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
I've been tasked with the job of improving our Articles of Association & Bylaws so that we have an election procedure that is fair and more appropriate for our members who live a long way away in the main. There is nothing whatsoever in our HOA Documents in relation to elections and there are also other problems which can make it very easy for the sitting Directors to stay on beyond their terms if they want to.

We're also looking at introducing staggered terms for Directors (the terms for all 5 seats end at the same time) and there are also one or two other problems with the definition & process of achieving a quorum.

Our Articles can be amended if two thirds of the BOD agree which I'm told is very unusual and useful in this instance but one of the things that needs changing in my opinion.

I am to make proposals to the BOD and they will then review and if they agree have an attorney check the proposals for any potential problems.

I was wondering if anybody could point me in the direction of Articles/Bylaws which have detailed election procedures in them? I'm thinking along the lines of either postal ballots or the mandatory use of a limited proxy.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
First you should review the applicable FL statutes to verify that any changes you propose will be in compliance with current law. Here are some links:

FL 617 Florida Not For Profit Corporation Act

FL 718 Florida Condominium Act.

CFL 720 HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATIONS

Second, you should do an internet search for HOA Bylaws [name of county]. Some Associations have their Bylaws published on the web and the Associations that are within your County will likely be the best source.

Third, per your request, here is some language for elections via mail:

Staggered Terms - There shall be staggered terms of office for Directors so that one-third of the directorships shall be up for election each year (or if the number does not evenly divide by thirds, the board shall be divided as close to thirds as possible). The system for staggered terms of office shall be implemented as follows: At the meeting of the Board of Directors at which these bylaws are adopted there shall be a drawing in order to determine the initial terms of the Directors. [The following clause is for boards with five original members, adjust accordingly for boards with more members]. After the drawing, one board member shall have an initial term of one year, two board members shall have terms of two years, and two board members shall have terms of three years. The minutes of this board meeting shall show the results of the drawing.

Hope this helps,

Tim
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I've looked for similar wording and haven't found any yet. Thanks for your sample, Tim.

In my opinion relatively short and clear wording will suffice 99% of the time, but it's the other 1% of the time - the edge cases - that will bite you. The initial start dates and term lengths are easy enough to figure out. Complications arise, however, when dealing with vacancies due to resignations.

Our documents are silent on much of the election process, too. The bylaws say the board shall consist of a minimum of 3 people. And that's it! No maximum number, no staggered terms, no nothing. Everyone, including myself, thinks a past board must have passed a resolution to extend the number of directors to 7 and stagger their terms, but nobody can find it.

Interesting Bylaws anecdote: I recently started taking notice of another HOA a couple of miles from here. Similar to ours, but bigger, newer, homes a little more expensive. Google Maps and Bing show it's a nice looking commmunity. So for no other reason than curiosity I set out to find their HOA documents, which is really easy to do in my county. Before long I had a PDF of their Bylaws. I started looking them over and became disoriented because all of a sudden I was reading my own Bylaws! Did I mistakenly download from an old bookmark perhaps? NO. As it turns out, they either coppied 80% of the wording from our bylaws or there was some developer overlap 15 or 20 years ago and both sets were derived from the same boilerplate language the developer had on hand. It was a very strange experience. Many of the paragraphs are word-for-word identical, including the above referenced vagueness about the election process and number of directors.

So common language between HOAs does exist, I know that for a fact. It's just a matter of finding what you're looking for or, if you've got money to spend, ask an attorney to get it for you. Either way you'll want an attorney to look over and approve the language of any amendments you want to propose.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Just curious, JohnL: What in your Articles of Corporation (I assume) needs to be changed.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
John,

I have incorporated two businesses in AZ over the last 20 years. When I write my own Articles of Incorporation, they run just a little over one page yet I have seen Articles written by attorneys that run seven or eight pages. My corporations are just as legal as those whose AI's were written by attorneys. The reason they differ so drastically is that the attorneys insist on including a lot of material that the state just does not care about. BTW, I have never once considered amending either of my AI's because there is nothing I need to change.

Among the things that one can include in his AI are: the number of directors; the length of their terms; the qualification for being a director; the qualification for being a member. You can put all that and other crap in AI but the state does not care.

My suggestion is to remove all the extraneous nonsense from your AI. Make this the last time anyone has reason to amend it. Your bylaws should cover the topics of who may be a director and how long the term of office is. Your AI should have no reference whatsoever to elections; that belongs in your bylaws.

Florida statute 617.0202(1) sets forth what you need to include at a minimum. Should you choose to amend your AI, include nothing beyond what is required and remove all that is not required.

JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Thanks all.

TimB4, thanks for the references and sample.

GenoS, you mention it's easy in Florida to get hold of other HOA's bylaws. How do I do this?

KerryL1, the Articles & Bylaws make it hard to hold an election and easy for a particular BOD to stay longer than their terms. They don't comply with FS 617.0202 (1)(d). Neither of the Articles or Bylaws allow for staggered terms. They are unclear about proxy forms, unclear about notices, unclear about how a vote is taken.

The Articles can also be amended by the BOD which is good in that we can change them in this instance but bad if the members of the board decide that in future their terms will be for 100 years or that proxy voting is no longer allowed etc, etc.

LarryB13, I note what you are saying and will en-devour to keep things simple. However simple can often mean vague and the BOD can interpret how they want. We have just managed to achieve our first election in 9 years. Like somebody mentioned, trying to achieve the quorum was like herding cats. We mostly live overseas or hundreds of miles from our community and only 3 owners attended who offered to be Proxy for the rest of us. I asked the BOD to allow a proxy form which let owners choose who they wanted from the candidates but they ignored my request. In the end one owner decided who the new board members would be. It transpired that the decision to ignore my request was simply that neither they, nor the CAM knew about limited proxies and they didn't want to ask an attorney. Homeowners were put off voting because they didn't want to give their vote to somebody who they didn't know. We need an election process that suits the membership and encourages them to take part and allows all members a fair chance of becoming board members.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
John,

Instead of saying limited proxies try using the term directed proxies. They both do the same thing but one is clearer.

Like limited proxies, Directed proxies identifies someone as a proxy representative but "directs" them to cast your vote a specific way.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Maybe I should have said some HOA bylaws are easy to find. You can find a lot just with a Google internet search. Start at http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/sto/file_download/public-records-CTMH.html and download the "Homeowner Association Reporting" csv file. After you download it, open it with Excel or another spreadsheet program. It lists all 14,000 HOAs in Florida (and that's not including condos). Just as an example, I scrolled about halfway down and found one ... the posting rules for this site prevent me from giving the name here ... then used Google to search for "xyz homeowners association bylaws" and immediately had a link to their own HOA website where their bylaws were publicly available.

Not all are that easy to find. You can go to a lot of individual county appraiser websites and use a map-selection feature to pick individual parcels for further info. If you Google (again that word) an HOA, even if their docs are not available online, you can usually find a realtor listing for properties there for sale. Find that property or one nearby on the county appraiser website and in many cases there will be a sales history with the book and page number in the county Official Records where the deed is recorded, and many counties have those publicly available online also. With luck, the deed itself will refer to restrictions that are filed in the county's official records and you can look them up there. Many times an HOA will file their CCRs and Bylaws (and sometimes their Articles of Incorporation) in a single batch (not including amendments) and the county official records' websites will serve them up without any hassle whatsoever.

I don't always look for other HOA documents, but when I do, I always find them online in less than an hour, anonymously and free of charge. I'm sure they're not ALL that easy to find, however.
JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 06/27/2015 2:03 AM
John,

Instead of saying limited proxies try using the term directed proxies. They both do the same thing but one is clearer.

Like limited proxies, Directed proxies identifies someone as a proxy representative but "directs" them to cast your vote a specific way.


OK, thanks.

I've just quickly read quite a few (5 or 6) samples of Articles/Bylaws that have been sent to me. They are all different but all completely clear. Not one of them allows the BOD to amend the articles. This must be a mistake with our documents. To amend the Bylaws we need a majority of a quorum of members, yet to amend the Articles , just two thirds of the BOD.

One of the sets of documents allows for postal ballots with the member qualifying as part of the quorum. That might be the way to go.
JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 06/27/2015 2:39 AM
Start at http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/sto/file_download/public-records-CTMH.html and download the "Homeowner Association Reporting" csv file. After you download it, open it with Excel or another spreadsheet program. It lists all 14,000 HOAs in Florida (and that's not including condos). Just as an example, I scrolled about halfway down and found one ... the posting rules for this site prevent me from giving the name here ... then used Google to search for "xyz homeowners association bylaws" and immediately had a link to their own HOA website where their bylaws were publicly available.

Many thanks.

I'm getting a good feel for it now.

Hopefully I won't need to see all 14,000 before being happy
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
John, also have a look at the 5th bullet point on the first page of this pdf http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=53889. The new law which takes effect July 1st allows "electronic voting" for HOAs, condos and co-ops. This is not as simple as "vote by email". Eventually CAMs and PMs will probably be able to run elections where members may vote using the internet from anywhere in the world if they so choose. One important bit: the online voting method must conform with the association's bylaws. If you're amending your bylaws then maybe you should take that into account. Furthermore, a board must adopt a resolution to authorize online voting and, from my reading, that can be done on an election-by-election basis. You can do it next year, for instance, but you don't have to do it the year after that. Et cetera.

I think this new wrinkle in the law is going to make it much easier for associations with far-flung members to hold elections (and other votes, such as approval of amendments) and get meaningful participation. This is an interesting development.
JohnL26 (Florida)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Quote:


I think this new wrinkle in the law is going to make it much easier for associations with far-flung members to hold elections (and other votes, such as approval of amendments) and get meaningful participation. This is an interesting development.

Excellent - thanks!
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
wow : a huge tool for Florida consumers & potential buyers from anywhere. Thanks
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnL26 on 06/27/2015 12:03 AM
LarryB13, I note what you are saying and will en-devour to keep things simple. However simple can often mean vague and the BOD can interpret how they want.


No. It means you put the specifics in your bylaws. What I am saying is that your Articles of Incorporation should not be filled up with crap that the state does not care about. The state does not care about how many directors you have, or what their terms of office are, or whether you vote by secret ballot, or the airspeed of an unladen swallow. I don't know about Florida but in Arizona articles are a royal pain to amend so it is best to write them without a lot of unrequired data.

Quote:

We have just managed to achieve our first election in 9 years. Like somebody mentioned, trying to achieve the quorum was like herding cats. We mostly live overseas or hundreds of miles from our community and only 3 owners attended who offered to be Proxy for the rest of us. I asked the BOD to allow a proxy form which let owners choose who they wanted from the candidates but they ignored my request. In the end one owner decided who the new board members would be. It transpired that the decision to ignore my request was simply that neither they, nor the CAM knew about limited proxies and they didn't want to ask an attorney. Homeowners were put off voting because they didn't want to give their vote to somebody who they didn't know. We need an election process that suits the membership and encourages them to take part and allows all members a fair chance of becoming board members.


This is one of those times when I want to hug my legislators. In Arizona, proxies are not permitted in HOA elections. Ballots must be voted by the member either in person or by mail. This totally eliminates the problems you have described.

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