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BarbaraB10 (California)
Posts: 117
Posted:


Anyone have an idea how much a key card program would cost which identifies member and time / date of use for over 500 homes?
We currently have electronic cards that unlock a door or gate but do not provide a record as to who used the card or when the member used it.

The desired system would also need to allow the HOA to deactivate individual cards if a change in ownership or if a tenant should move as well as deactivate in the event of suspension of privileges.

The pros to such a system might encourage prompt registrations, encourage staying current with assessments and pretty much track potential problems that could be corrected before widespread abuse.

The cons are a big brother atmosphere and potential abuse if due process is not followed as prescribed in our governing docs and civil/corp codes.

Any thoughts or feedback are appreciated.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry that I cannot recall the cost here as the system was installed 14 years ago, but it does all that you'd like to do.

I have never heard of anyone complain that it feels like a Big Brother atmosphere. This might be because since all "fobs" are used for our common areas, not our private condos. WE also have camera in our elevators and no complaints of "Big Brother."

I cannot see "abuse" arising unless the Board would be abusive in all kinds of situations and fails to follow due process in general.

The way they're most effective in our 211 twin towers is if owners have repeats of the same offense in 6 months, or if they fail to pay on an agreed upon payment plan. In those case, there fobs to the recreational common areas are deactivated after notice & hearing.
BarbaraB10 (California)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Thanks Kerry!

I am told a sophisticated system as described in the original post costs about "$21,000" as opposed to $700 paid last year to change the code and distribute new cards.

It was 7 years since the last code change, which kinda defeats the security aspect and common sense.
The HOA does not know how many cards have been distributed, how many are actively used or how many are in existence for people who no longer reside here.

With the number of people who come & go such as changes in ownership, short term/long term rentals, visitors & guests, I feel it's time
to upgrade to the better system which could be a positive thing from a management (board of directors) perspective.

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
There I such a system in my community. It can be abused by those who have the power to control the system. For example, if a person who can activate key cards decides to give out extra cards or grant unlimited access when others have limited access or unlawfully cut off someone's access (I know of all 3 such examples in my community). The cards can also be shared with others (ie one owner shares with a non-resident or with a non-paying member).

The only pro is that a card can be deactivated for nonpayment of assessments or to revoke privileges for rule infractions. It does seem easier to manage than an actual key and it is more secure than a code that typically will get passed around.

Our system does keep track of when the card is used. While I suppose that may be useful if trying to track down some vandalism within a specific time frame, I have never heard of our Board successfully doing this.

If you have concerns about access to common areas, it is a system best used to rescind privileges for non-payment. Ultimately, it is not a system that keeps people out though. All it takes is for someone to share their card.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I believe there have been court cases concerning what can be denied. As I understand it, one cannot be denied access to the building/gate, etc. and access to their own unit/home. They can be denied access to amenities like the pool, free parking garage, clubhouse, etc. but not to their "home".

I think many looking to establish a "control system" are looking for a total lockout, you cannot come in, punishment, you owe a fine so be gone, etc. type control situation. Like the he!! with them noisy low life renters. Lock them out if they fart.

Be very, very, very careful of any "lockout" system.

BarbaraB10 (California)
Posts: 117
Posted:


Thank you everyone for the great comments.

To be clear, the new system would be only for access to the amenities.

Vandalism and petty theft have been a problem the last 12 months.
We have no idea if specific members, guests or non-residents are the cause unless an image is on video surveillance tape. Connecting the dots is another story.

JerryV (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
Barbara,
We are in the process of having a proximity card lock system installed on our pool gate. Total cost is around $5K, but that includes 200 key fobs @ $5 each and some minor fence alterations. With this system we hope to restrict access to MIGS and only during posted pool hours. We can deactivate/activate the fobs when people move. Every home will get one fob at no charge with their paid annual assessment. We plan to charge a $50 fee for lost or stolen cards.

This system is replacing a mechanical code lock which is worn out and we were having problems with renters actually posting the new code on Facebook every time we changed it.
BarbaraB10 (California)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Thanks Jerry.

>>> With this system we hope to restrict access to MIGS .....<<< What are "MIGS"?

5 gates and 2 doors require a key card. Our current system does not require a keypad to punch in a code.

The ability to deactivate when people move out is a plus; activating new residents is a plus to require prompt registration. A $50 replacement fee seems reasonable for a more sophisticated system; our replacement fee is $25.

Now it just boils down to finding the right price for the program and installation.

JerryV (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
Barbara
MIGS = members-in-good-standing. We decided to go with a $50 replacement fee to discourage people from "loaning" out their fobs to friends. Our rules require members to accompany their guests at the pool. If this works out, we plan to have the same kind of lock installed on our clubhouse door to replace a traditional keyed lock.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I would suggest that "MIGS" be clearly identified as I detect somewhat of a them (renters) and we (owners) undertone in this discussion.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Unlawful misuse of a technology with otherwise lawful uses, at the very least could cost a lot of money.

If your jurisdiction expressly legislates eg a right to BAR OWNERS from shared amenities- eg a condo By-law enacted from a legislated DIRECT right to bar non-resident landlord-owners but not their registered tenants from recreation facilities - then selectively denying access at least has some legal basis. ( My jurisdiction expressly legislates that right for condo corporations, and buyers bought into that. )

But if barring front gate access to an alleged defaulter's home (or owner-owned parking) as some sort of quick self-help remedy instead of lawful liens & litigation - then a very different matter. Any WRONGFUL denial of front gate or amenity access throws gas on the fire. Doesn't matter if it's been going on for a long time, if lacking a clear legislated right it is no different in principle from illegally seizing family members.

Innkeeper Act - type thinking ( if applied to this technology ) is shaky other than than in genuine Innkeeping type scenarios, given the levels of competence /skillsets kicking around many communities.

JerryV (Florida)
Posts: 45
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/06/2015 4:50 PM
I believe there have been court cases concerning what can be denied. As I understand it, one cannot be denied access to the building/gate, etc. and access to their own unit/home. They can be denied access to amenities like the pool, free parking garage, clubhouse, etc. but not to their "home".

I think many looking to establish a "control system" are looking for a total lockout, you cannot come in, punishment, you owe a fine so be gone, etc. type control situation. Like the he!! with them noisy low life renters. Lock them out if they fart.

Be very, very, very careful of any "lockout" system.


Whoa! Why the hostility? It's simple, we provide an amenity...you break the rules or not pay your assessment, you can't use the amenity. We're not denying access to your home, just the pool. As far as "low-life farting renters, if the shoe fits...

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