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AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Hello,

I am seeking an information/opinion/advice about the dispute my mom got involved with her board of directors. My mom lives in a condominium for past 10 years and a previous board allowed members to plant flowers and bushes in a common area. For years my mom invested a lot of money in maintaining the area around her condo. In 2012 a new board started sending her violations to remove birch tree, bushes and perennial flowers. The violations were appearing gradually until the end of 2013. In 2014 a fee of $100 was assessed to her for plant removal. We requested a hearing and it was obvious that the board had no prove. In 2015 she received a determination letter stating that she was found guilty and now she has to pay $595 for landscaping removal and what the board ordered a landscaping company to plant. They also sent a picture as a proof, but the picture clearly shows her cleaning a dead leaves and watering the area.
In addition the president of the board was harassing my mom in the past on many occasions when she was for example cleaning the sidewalk, removing ice in winter, etc.
It seems to me that this board is acting unfairly. In declaration it is said that the decision of the board shall be rendered within 3 days. They waited almost whole year.
When we tried to reach the president we were told that the case is closed and there would be no more discussions about it.
We feel powerless.
Hiring an attorney would be a very costly expense for my mom; she is 68 years old and doesn’t have that kind of income.
What are our options? Do we have any?
Can the board implement new rules without asking the members for approval? Do the new rules have to be recorded? How can we check that?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Welcome Anna

Boards can change rules. But there are a few questions that should be investigated:

1. Was your mom in compliance when she did the planting? Or were the rules always there but not enforced by the prior board?

2. Did other homeowners do similar planting? Did they receive similar violation notices? If your mom is being singled out, she could argue selective enforcement.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Hello,

In the declaration it is said that:"Certain portions of the Common Elements may be designated as being reserved for the exclusive use of the Residents of a particular Dwelling Unit as a flower or vegetable garden ('Planting Area")...an Owner may lanscape his planting area in a manner which compliments and enhances the aestethic appearance of the Condominum Property...".
The majority of the homeowners were taking care of their areas but none of them have a written approval as the property manager at that time was giving a verbal approval. In one of the board meetings homeowners were asking the board to stop violations but that didn't work. Many people had to pay a $100. When my mom and I went around and ask others if they had to pay for landscaping and it seems my mom is the only one.

This whole situation created a very ill relationship with the board. Many homeowners are angry and feel powerless same as us.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
If there is any evidence that previous Board gave approval or if there is any common knowledge, that information needs to be submitted to the current Board. That can include a letter from the property management company (current or former). It also needs to be acknowledged by the former Board to the current Board.

If so many owners have been affected by a "change in policy", it seems to me that either the current Board recognizes it and accepts that decisions were made by a previous Board OR they get voted out.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Also, in the Declaration it is said that:"the provisions of this Declaration may be amended, modified, enlarged or otherwise changed in whole or in part by the affirmative vote of Voting Members (either in person or by proxy), or by an instrument executed by Owners, representing at least 75% of th Undivided Intrests....No amendment shall become effective until Recorded."
The Board of Directores never cast any voiting they simply sent out the copies of new rules.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Small claims? But there it is possible that only your mother will be allowed to talk, not you.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
The majority of homeowners are polish community and most of them don't know the law nor speak English. In their new rules I saw a section when stated that no other flag than Americal glag shall be displayed. That to be sounds as discrimination.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 9:09 AM
The majority of homeowners are polish community and most of them don't know the law nor speak English. In their new rules I saw a section when stated that no other flag than Americal flag shall be displayed. That to be sounds as discrimination.

JimR26 (Alabama)
Posts: 27
Posted:
i really feel for you mother. I believe this site will give you lots of ideas that will likely result in nothing changing. I've watched it for months. Current boards and past boards are all defensive. Lawyers cost a lot. As hard as this is, and it's coming from the mouth of a stubborn old coot, ask your mom to go along with them. It will be hard at first, but she will get over it. Tyrants run HOA's with much inconsistency, and no worthwhile experience. That's the reality. HOAs might protect property values ... but they ruin the spirit of the individual. Any collectivist environment, anywhere, anytime does the same.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
I'm just afraid once she pays they will always find something else to fine her.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 8:45 AM
Hello,

In the declaration it is said that:"Certain portions of the Common Elements may be designated as being reserved for the exclusive use of the Residents of a particular Dwelling Unit as a flower or vegetable garden ('Planting Area")...an Owner may lanscape his planting area in a manner which compliments and enhances the aestethic appearance of the Condominum Property...".
The majority of the homeowners were taking care of their areas but none of them have a written approval as the property manager at that time was giving a verbal approval.


Your declaration obviously allows residents to have designated "planting areas." While it would have been nice for your mom to get written approval, the fact that the property manager gave verbal approvals should not work against her. If many homeowners received these verbal approvals, that works in your favor.

Aesthetic appearance is weak as a standard. It's subject too much to personal interpretation.

In your shoes, I would write a letter to the board saying that what your mom did was in compliance with the "planting area" rules. Offer to remove anything that was planted after she started receiving violation notices, but explain that you think that whatever was planted previously should be grandfathered. Let them know how long the bushes have been in place.

On the other hand, if your mom is the only one who is resisting, you may want to just back away from this one. The real question is whether this is worth fighting over.

2 separate issues to consider. Removal of bushes. Payment of fines/removal fees. She can allow the removal but refuse to pay fees. What does she want to do?


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
WillR2 (Colorado)
Posts: 29
Posted:
If there is a dispute with a rogue board, one must either let them have their way or be prepared for grief. Since you mother is a senior, you might ask if there are any attorneys who are doing pro-bono work for seniors. If the HOA uses a management company, they are part of the problem and they might be informed a complaint will be filed against them. The Fair Debts Collections Practices Act might come into play with fines and harassment.

Another option is to contact an investigative reporter.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
My mom removed everything that she was asked to remove in 2013. She feels she should not pay for any landscaping they installed in 2014 nor pay any fee for plant removal. She feels this president is using his power to collect money for no reason.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 9:52 AM
My mom removed everything that she was asked to remove in 2013. She feels she should not pay for any landscaping they installed in 2014 nor pay any fee for plant removal. She feels this president is using his power to collect money for no reason.


If she removed everything they wanted in 2013, what was the $100 for in 2014?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
The fine was for plant removal!
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 11:14 AM
The fine was for plant removal!

What made it go from $100 to $595?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
They ordered a landscaper to plant three bushes and two roses and they charged my mom for that $595.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 9:09 AM
The majority of homeowners are polish community and most of them don't know the law nor speak English. In their new rules I saw a section when stated that no other flag than Americal glag shall be displayed. That to be sounds as discrimination.

A quick look at Illinois's condo law shows that no condo association can prohibit an owner from displaying "the American flag or a military flag, or both". This is, after all, the United States of America. I'm not generally a rah rah USA! USA! USA! kind of guy, but I would suggest if someone wants to display the flag of Poland they should move to Poland and stop accusing Americans of discrimination against them.

Good luck working out your mom's problems. I suspect a language barrier might exist in all this.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Anna,

Your mom needs to find the documentation that showed a previous board allowed members to plant in the common area. If she can't find the documentation to counter what the current board is saying, then she is basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 12:01 PM
They ordered a landscaper to plant three bushes and two roses and they charged my mom for that $595.

Never heard of planting shrubs and charging individual homeowner without giving prior notice of the fee amount and providing an opportunity to object. Could be challenged, but is it worth it?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Geno,

My intention was not to accuse but instead of creating anger in people why not try to find a peaceful solution when both parties could be satisfied? Why not instead offer a better solution like for example; the other nation’s flag should be display with American flag?
The issue here is not a flag but a man who does not care what other people want. The Board, in my opinion, supposed to represent residents and honor what majority votes for. After all this is their home.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaR2 on 05/25/2015 9:15 AM
I'm just afraid once she pays they will always find something else to fine her.

That is a sad statement to make, how is it you arrived at that conclusion?
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
The Board, in my opinion, supposed to represent residents and honor what majority votes for.


Not really.

The BOD represents the CORPORATION and has a fiduciary duty to the CORPORATION.

The BOD's job is to be the EXECUTOR of the 'governing documents', said documents main purpose was to insure the operation and maintenance of the common elements.

It is NOT majority rule - It is PLURALITY rule (usually 2/3) regarding the Covenant.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Anna,

I would also recommend that, if your going to become involved in this, to take the time to listen to both sides.

We reassigned parking spaces in 2011 in order to comply with our own governing documents. One lady who thought the unassigned spaces that were next to her home was hers alone to use and was rather upset that we moved them and that after so many years we were not allowed to do this. We wrote back, cited the governing documents showing that the original assignments were incorrect, pointed out the unassigned spaces are not anyones, but a first come first serve space and even cited applicable State law that supported the Boards authority to reassign the spaces.

Well, that lady died and her grand daughter has moved into the property. The grand daughter is now bringing up the exact same arguments that her grandmother did.

All, I'm saying is that there are two sides to every story and it may be best to approach the board and find out their side.
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
The violations were appearing gradually until the end of 2013.


Now, in 2015, she was assessed $575 !

Sounds really cheap - pay up and move along.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/26/2015 11:35 AM
Well, that lady died and her grand daughter has moved into the property. The grand daughter is now bringing up the exact same arguments that her grandmother did.

Do you think your letters will kill the granddaughter too? ... Just kidding Tim.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/26/2015 11:35 AM
Anna,

I would also recommend that, if your going to become involved in this, to take the time to listen to both sides.

We reassigned parking spaces in 2011 in order to comply with our own governing documents. One lady who thought the unassigned spaces that were next to her home was hers alone to use and was rather upset that we moved them and that after so many years we were not allowed to do this. We wrote back, cited the governing documents showing that the original assignments were incorrect, pointed out the unassigned spaces are not anyones, but a first come first serve space and even cited applicable State law that supported the Boards authority to reassign the spaces.

Well, that lady died and her grand daughter has moved into the property. The grand daughter is now bringing up the exact same arguments that her grandmother did.

All, I'm saying is that there are two sides to every story and it may be best to approach the board and find out their side.

Yes I agree there are always two sides to every story that’s why when my mom received a $100 fine I went to the hearing. During the hearing all I heard from the president is that he observed my mom on many occasions that she was removing plants. I was puzzled because that’s what the Board asked her to do in 2013 and that’s what she did. When I asked for specific days and plants he was not able to tell us anything. We left and after three days the Board, according to the rules, supposed to inform us of the decision. They failed to do that. I was trying to contact them several times with no success.
When this year she received a determination letter the amount has changed from $100 to $595. I e-mailed the board asking for explanation and I was told the case was closed and the Board will not entertain any hearing at this moment.
I had a feeling that the whole hearing was pointless. So how do you deal with people who don’t even want to listen?
AnnaR2 (Illinois)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 05/26/2015 12:26 PM
The violations were appearing gradually until the end of 2013.


Now, in 2015, she was assessed $575 !

Sounds really cheap - pay up and move along.

I meant the violation notices were coming every two months not fees to remove different things every time which my mom obeyed every time.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I'd request an itemized list of what the $575 is paying for.

Unless your mother did more than add plantings and then subsequently remove them when asked, then ultimately she made no changes to the landscaping beds.

She cannot (in my opinion) be charged for re-landscaping the beds if things are being removed that she didn't plant or other things are being added based on the decisions of others or the landscaping company. She can only be charged to undo things that she actually did.

However, if she moved or removed things that were originally in the bed, then yes she should probably be charged to put it back how it was.

PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
D'OH

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