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RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
See this article on the home page.

There are over 2 million homeowners in HOAs in Colorado in about 12,000 HOAs. Meanwhile only 336 people have taking the Colorado licening tests; and one in four has failed to pass which leaves about 252 managers eligible to be licensed. This could present a major problem for those HOAs who's manager is not licensed by 7/1/15. The state appears to be addressing this problem in 3 ways: (1) by extending the deadline to 12/31/15 by creating a "provisional license"; (2) by setting up a one year "apprenticeship program"; and (3) by "dumming down" the two licensing tests.

The article states there are 100 questions and 75 must be answered correctly. When I took the 2 tests on 2/14/15 it was required to get atleast 80% correct on each of the two tests! I had no problem passing both tests in 1/3 of the alloted time. My wife who owns our management company, DARCO, got atleast 95% correct on each test. Based on our personal experiences taking the two tests many managers may need to be "weeded out". Removing poor managers was one of the stated objectives for requiring licensure.

Unfortunately, I do not believe passing these two test proves that one will be a good community association manager(CAM). There are many aspects of being a good CAM which can not be tested with a mulitple choice exam. Just like getting good grades and advanced degrees does not qualify one to perform well in their chosen profession.

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This goes to show the importance of always hiring LICENSED contractors. Obtaining a License means someone should be competent in their field enough to pass a test and pay dues to keep it. If you have a choice to hire one without a license, then you get what you pay for. A person either too lazy, poor, or incompetent to make the effort to be official.

I went to school to become an Electrician. Have a degree in Electricity and experience. However, I am NOT a licensed Electrician nor have I made the effort to do so. If I want to become licensed, I would have to pass an exam and such. For me, I do not want to be an Electrician but I know enough that I could do it. Just would NOT recommend hiring me if you have a choice for a licensed person instead.

Keep in mind this is NOT for HOA members/board. This is for actual paid Management Companies who do this for a business. This would not translate very well for actual HOA board members. The only requirement to be in a HOA is to be an owner. Although I wouldn't mind if there was a test on the rules for people to know their potential board candidates read the documents....

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It sounds like the test is not really designed to determine who would be a good CAM, but rather to determine a grasp of basic facts. A written test for a drivers license in many states is required even though the written test doesn't actually predict whether someone will be a good driver. You still want the applicant to demonstrate a degree of competence in the basics. Anyone who can't pass a multiple-choice test of basic material is exactly who the test was designed to weed out.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The original article said that the majority of the questions (70%) were on Federal issues and only 30% on Colorado issues. Seems to me the Colorado exam preparers took a "cheap" way out.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/17/2015 1:06 PM
The original article said that the majority of the questions (70%) were on Federal issues and only 30% on Colorado issues. Seems to me the Colorado exam preparers took a "cheap" way out.

John, the preparers of the two tests were trying to provide reasonable question which would fairly determine the knowledge of persons who want to be licensed. One of the two tests is specific to Colorado and IMO is mainly on CCIOA and the Non-Profit Act. The other test is referred to as a "General" test. This test does have a few questions on Federal laws, such as the Fair Housing Act, the FCC OTARD rule of 1996, and others Federal laws which are applicable to all states. However, there are also questions on maintenance, risk management, accounting, budgeting, and other activities which a manager does on a daily basis. I think it is misleading to state 70% of the questions were on Federal issues when they could have stated General issues rather than Federal issues; since the questions are applicable to all states.
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
RogerB,

It has been interesting watching as this plays out. I subscribe to a “Colorado Law Blog” as I assume you do also.

(Why Colorado, since I am in Vermont? Because I am also interested in other states, and Colorado Statutes are somewhat similar to Vermont’s).

Also we are a completely self-managed Condominium Association – so in effect anyone of our Directors, including myself, should be able to pass any Community Association Manager exam.

For anyone interested, here are some Colorado links from the past few weeks or so:

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-manager-licensure-exam-pass-rate-its-not-all-doom-and-gloom.html

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-manager-licensure-cleanup-bill-signed-into-law.html

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-licensure-for-managers-employed-by-common-interest-communities-clearing-up-the-confusion.html

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-emergency-rules-addressing-provisional-and-apprentice-licenses.html

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-revised-manager-licensure-application-in-the-works.html

http://www.cohoalaw.com/from-capitol-hilllegislation-updated-community-association-manager-licensure-application-is-complete.html
WillR2 (Colorado)
Posts: 29
Posted:
The licensing requirement is good though there is room for improvement. In our high-rise, we have a management company and an on-site manger. The on-site manager we had last year quit his job of 9 years with us rather than take the test. The next one took it, passed and moved to CA. The one we have now is going to take it and is taking classes weekly. Personally, I think this is good. It will add a level of professionalism that was lacking. Its refreshing to hear the guy we have now point out where we have been ignoring the law either intentionally or out of ignorance. In the winter months, since I am retired, I have served as an aide at the General Assembly. The leadership of both parties in CO are really not interested in HOA matters so I am glad we at least got this legislation. That lack of interest is changing though with the new group which took office last year.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
WillR2, I agree with your statement "Personally, I think this is good. It will add a level of professionalism that was lacking. Its refreshing to hear the guy we have now point out where we have been ignoring the law either intentionally or out of ignorance."
Your manager appears to be doing his job by pointing out these things which if not followed could lead to significant expenses if there were a law suit.
RobertB49 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Just took the 24 hour class, and the test last week. I thought the test was reasonably difficult and covered the important stuff.
I'm still hustling trying to get it all done in the next three weeks. Just sent my fingerprint card to CBI and have my applications in for E&O and fidelity insurance.

This all took me by surprise, I only became aware of it a couple months ago when one of my board members mentioned that another HOA he is involved with was working on compliance.

I'm not sure how DORA went about notifying all the managers in the state, but they never let me know.

In day to day chat, I've come across a couple mangers in my area that are completely unaware still, and have no intention of becoming licensed. I don't know how CCIOA plans to enforce the rule for those that operate w/o a license.
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
What idiot(s) would hire an unlicensed vendor?

Oh, yeah, the well meaning clueless volunteers!
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 06/16/2015 3:00 PM
What idiot(s) would hire an unlicensed vendor?

Oh, yeah, the well meaning clueless volunteers!

Many vendors whom we hire are not required to be licensed. The licensing of CAMs (Community Association Managers) is required in Colorado as of 7/1/15 and will have some bumps to iron out for awhile. IMO the required certification and 2 state tests do not, and can not, cover most of the daily operational expertise needed and will not make someone a good CAM. But it definitely educates CAMs on Colorado and federal statutes related to association management. Meanwhile, CAM licensure creates "red tape" and greater expenses for an HOA which utilizes professional management.
RobertB49 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Almost done with the requirements in time for the July 1 deadline

The cost is sure adding up, as will my price for management.

Online Cam Course $400
Drive to Denver and take the test, $90 for the test and $90 in gas
Fingerprint and background check, $45
E and O insurance for managing one 44 unit HOA, $1650
Crime Fidelity, $350
Manager License $175

Cha Ching
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 05/17/2015 12:35 PM
It sounds like the test is not really designed to determine who would be a good CAM, but rather to determine a grasp of basic facts. A written test for a drivers license in many states is required even though the written test doesn't actually predict whether someone will be a good driver. You still want the applicant to demonstrate a degree of competence in the basics. Anyone who can't pass a multiple-choice test of basic material is exactly who the test was designed to weed out.

Excellent analogy~
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
You could say the same thing about lawyers... just going to law school and passing the bar exam doesn't mean you're going to be a good, effective, ethical lawyer.

RobertB49, how many of those expenses are on an annual recurring basis? Sounds a LOT cheaper than going to law school!

Also, aren't E&O and Crime fidelity insurance already required? Is that something CAMs normally operate without in Colorado? Hypothetically, of course, if you are planning dastardly deeds than you probably wouldn't give a flying F about bonding and insurance anyway.
RobertB49 (Colorado)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Colorado had a requirement for a dishonesty bond that covered me as well as the board of directors.
The E&O is a new requirement and is a coverage I did not have, I own a small construction company and had general liability only.

I manage one 44 unit hoa and had to form a separate business entity to do my management under.
Insurers were not willing to give E and O coverage to a construction company.

The insurance costs will be something I'm hit with every year, as well as license renewal and refresher course. The yearly costs work out to about 10% of my gross revenue for HOA management and will be passed along to the customer.
WillR2 (Colorado)
Posts: 29
Posted:
We realize we will pay more for our manager having obtained his license. In fact, the Board is looking at giving him a bonus - we don't want another HOA to take him.

Managers are failing the test, others, like the manger of the building next to mine are leaving the field. The legislation is not perfect and is hitting small communities the hardest, yet all in all, this is needed in Colorado. Boards in our state have a lot of authority; in older communities like mine, owners don't even get to vote on the budget. Rogue boards and managers are not a common theme here. When it comes to boards, they need someone to tell them that what they are doing is wrong.

My only regret about the law is that it is not more rigorous - it doesn't fine those who are licensed who don't report illegal board action, it does't have a mechanism for punishing rogue boards. The legislature will refine this law in the future I am sure.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WillR2 on 06/25/2015 6:49 AM
We realize we will pay more for our manager having obtained his license. In fact, the Board is looking at giving him a bonus - we don't want another HOA to take him.

Managers are failing the test, others, like the manger of the building next to mine are leaving the field. The legislation is not perfect and is hitting small communities the hardest, yet all in all, this is needed in Colorado. Boards in our state have a lot of authority; in older communities like mine, owners don't even get to vote on the budget. Rogue boards and managers are not a common theme here. When it comes to boards, they need someone to tell them that what they are doing is wrong.

My only regret about the law is that it is not more rigorous - it doesn't fine those who are licensed who don't report illegal board action, it does't have a mechanism for punishing rogue boards. The legislature will refine this law in the future I am sure.

WillR2, I think policing can only be achieved by providing sufficient funding. I think such funding was defeated when voted on by the Colorado legislature. Thus when a Board choses to make decisions which violates their association Rules or state laws it is difficult to get any government agency to act. In such cases the members could replace the Board members involved. Unfortunately, there is so much apathy that I have only seen this done one time in the past decade. What our management company has done, on one such occasion, is to terminate our management agreement. Meanwhile, a management company must be careful when giving guidance to a Board. I know of one case where the manager was charged with giving legal advice.

Regarding budgets, generally the Board approves the budget with many associations Covenants requiring a percentage of all members approval when the assessment increase is over 5.0%. I have not found it reasonable, from an operations standpoint, to have the association members involved in budget preparation beyond those who are knowledgeable and those members could volunteer to be on a finance committee.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WillR2 on 06/25/2015 6:49 AM

it [the law] does't have a mechanism for punishing rogue boards.

Keep in mind that the governing documents and applicable corporate and hoa/coa laws are considered civil laws. Your governing documents are considered a civil issue (vs. criminal).

The State enforces the criminal statutes. The parties involved enforce civil statutes, either amongst themselves or through the courts.

With HOA/COAs, the parties involved are the members. The membership is the check and balance to the Board. If the membership allows the Board to go rogue (either by apathy or the majority thinking it's not an issue) then don't expect others to do the memberships work for them.

The members have full control. They have the authority to change the terms of the contract (governing documents) and who will or won't serve on their Board to represent them. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, membership apathy can prevent other members from exercising that authority (except through the courts).

At our last annual meeting we had a whole 20% participation and half of that was by proxy. If the other 80% got involved, they have the voting power to dictate to the 20% how things will be ran. Instead, that 80% allow the 20% to tell them how things will be ran.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Is there anything in the test concerning saving money?

The reason I ask is that the test has a cost, which gets passed on to the association, so are there savings for a typical association?

Examples might include obtaining bids, avoiding lawsuits, preventive maintenance, etc.
WillR2 (Colorado)
Posts: 29
Posted:
It is correct that these are civil cases - usually. But it would be nice not to have to resort to the courts. Most folks don't have the time or the money and so only large cases go to court.

We have great participation at our annual meeting. Its not an understatement to say folks look forward to it. After the meeting, we have a party, wine and beer and food. Usually it is standing room only.

There have been some cases where Boards have been silent in the face of illegal activity. The one I am most familiar with was in the Cherry Creek area of Denver, not far from me. Another was in Englewood. Another was up in the mountains, but which resort right now escapes me.

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