HOA President demands my respect

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

A year ago I moved into a gated community of 124 homes in Utah. In January of this year I submitted a maintenance request to have the tree in front of my home trimmed when the proper time came. Someone from the Board was supposed to send me an email letting me know what to expect. No one did. A few weeks ago I saw a crew trimming a tree at the HOA Presidents house then they where gone. The next day while walking through the community I saw the tree trimmers having a break so I asked if they had a list of trees to trim. No list but asked if I wanted to leave my name and house number they would give it to the HOA President as soon as he returned. Two - three hours later the crew was in my front yard trimming off the lower branches. As they where finishing up I came out and noticed one small branch left behind so I asked if they could please cut it, the whole thing took less than 15 seconds. I didn't notice the HOA President standing a crossed the street until he yelled at me to "leave the workers alone, they work much faster without your instruction and besides that tree isn't yours anyway." I walked over to him and asked him why he was so angry? After some discussion he told me that I don't wave at him when he drives by. He also told me that he was waiting for me to come out and say something to the workers rather than knocking on my door and fill me in.

When I moved in I was told that there is a process to follow in getting things done and I am following that process right up to the point where this one person is dropping the ball. According to our CC&R's the board has 30 days to respond in writing and if they fail to do so the request is automatically approved, but the board doesn't follow the document.

My question is how do I deal with this situation and does the President have the right to bully at me? He tells me he does.

JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399

Posted:

Well, in my humble opinion, no one has the right to bully another - regardless of the circumstances.

All depends on who you want to have as neighbors. My thinking is that neighbors ought to be friendly, to the extent possible. Don't have to be friends...however, it's definitely the high road to be friendly.

Just my $.02 worth.

oljim, in texas

Quote:

Posted By MikeR on 04/29/2015 9:34 AM
A year ago I moved into a gated community of 124 homes in Utah. In January of this year I submitted a maintenance request to have the tree in front of my home trimmed when the proper time came. Someone from the Board was supposed to send me an email letting me know what to expect. No one did. A few weeks ago I saw a crew trimming a tree at the HOA Presidents house then they where gone. The next day while walking through the community I saw the tree trimmers having a break so I asked if they had a list of trees to trim. No list but asked if I wanted to leave my name and house number they would give it to the HOA President as soon as he returned. Two - three hours later the crew was in my front yard trimming off the lower branches. As they where finishing up I came out and noticed one small branch left behind so I asked if they could please cut it, the whole thing took less than 15 seconds. I didn't notice the HOA President standing a crossed the street until he yelled at me to "leave the workers alone, they work much faster without your instruction and besides that tree isn't yours anyway." I walked over to him and asked him why he was so angry? After some discussion he told me that I don't wave at him when he drives by. He also told me that he was waiting for me to come out and say something to the workers rather than knocking on my door and fill me in.

When I moved in I was told that there is a process to follow in getting things done and I am following that process right up to the point where this one person is dropping the ball. According to our CC&R's the board has 30 days to respond in writing and if they fail to do so the request is automatically approved, but the board doesn't follow the document.

My question is how do I deal with this situation and does the President have the right to bully at me? He tells me he does.

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas

PitA
Posts: 311

Posted:

According to our CC&R's the board has 30 days to respond in writing and if they fail to do so the request is automatically approved, but the board doesn't follow the document.

I believe that refers to an architectural approval request form.

Maintenance requests would be handled at the BOD's discretion (but should not be ignored entirely).

As far as 'cordiality' is concerned:

While nice, there is no requirement (on either side).

Actual abuse/harassment would be a L.E. issue.

In any event:

You will never regret being cordial and polite,

you may regret the other option.

Good Luck in your new HOA

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR on 04/29/2015 9:34 AM

My question is how do I deal with this situation and does the President have the right to bully at me? He tells me he does.

What do your docs say?

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

My documents don't tell me how to deal with a bully.

Also Architecural Contol includes landscaping.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

He doesn't have a right to bully you - methinks he may have just been sarcastic and having a bad day for whatever reason (maybe someone else yelled at him about the trees and he was taking it out on you). Not an excuse of course, but I'd be more concerned if this was a pattern of bad behavior.

For the most part, I'd ignore it - you got the work done and perhaps the man will realize what an ass he was that day and apologize the next time he sees you. You might also want to attend the next board meeting and see if he says something first - if he tries to bully you, calmly explain to everyone what happened that day and your intent was to get the work done according to the rules.

Sometimes, the best approach is to let people steam for a bit and when they realize you're not responding in kind, it's not as much fun and they stop. In any event, if he goes off at the meeting, this may show the other board members that he's unprofessional as hell and he'll look like an idiot. If THEY have any backbone, one or two of them may pull him to the side and point that out. If this sort of thing has happened with other residents, they may need to go into executive session and have a "come to Jesus meeting" with the guy.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

I was joking, you said that the Pres, told you that he has a right to bully you.

GertrudeC (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

I am sorry that you are dealing with a Bully. We have a Bully who trims trees for whomever he likes, if you dare cross him you will get nothing done. If he likes you he uses our paid workers to do your work. There is no line he will not cross from the most disgusting fowl language, physical confrontations you name he has been there. What I am doing is taking pictures and saving all my complaints in order to defend myself. I wish you luck and offer my condolences for having to deal with him.

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

The yelling event happened a couple of weeks ago, so I left it alone. When I approched him yesterday his attitude remained the same. Thats when he told me "At least it got your attention." I just want to be able to get things done and with this guys its up to him.

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

It sounds like you have the same President.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Those that demand respect have none for others.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JimR24 on 04/29/2015 9:43 AM
Well, in my humble opinion, no one has the right to bully another - regardless of the circumstances.

All depends on who you want to have as neighbors. My thinking is that neighbors ought to be friendly, to the extent possible. Don't have to be friends...however, it's definitely the high road to be friendly.

Just my $.02 worth.

oljim, in texas

Posted By MikeR on 04/29/2015 9:34 AM.

Jim,

You are such a gentleman and your words contain a lot of wisdom.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So Mike the board President told you directly " he has the right to bully you" ?

And in what context did he make that statement? Hello how are you, by the way I have the right to bully you????

Seems you just might be making much to do about very little.

The tree was trimmed just as you required. So just how much future contact to you plan to have with the President and over what issues?

And I agree your understanding of the CCRs sounds a bit confused. Best to understand them before you quote them as support for your position.

My suggestion tap your brakes a few times and slow down the search for personal issues over trimming a tree.

Perhaps rather than a bullying situation this might simply be two people who don't see things the same way..

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Jon, I think you missed the point. A person doesn't have to tell you that you are being bullied to know that you are.

The point is that he doesn't have the right to yell at anyone when hes the problem. If he did his job the way he is supposed to this situation wouldn't exist. Being President to a HOA doesn't give anyone the right to be a bully.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Hi mike

The simple fact is you can't pick your neighbors, but you can pick your board members. The best way to get rid of a bully is to replace him with someone who isn't a bully. If the situation is truly intolerable -then get yourself on the board -and put him in a position where ha has no choice but to deal with you on an equal footing as a fellow board member.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

When you crossed the street to address him, did you don your angel wings and halo, holding your hands up in prayer position, and as you approached him, did you ask him in an angelic voice what his problem was? Leaving your own frustration and properly placed anger at the board for not including you on "the list"?

I think not as you are as human as the rest of us. So perhaps he was not bullying you, but standing his own ground, a ground that he is constantly battling and defending because sheeple only point fingers at HOA boards.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Mike, we've heard your side of the story. I'm sure the President has his own view of the situation which is probably somewhat contrary to yours. In reality, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

To actually answer your question . . . certainly the President has the right to be a bully . . . just as much as you have the same right. But it really just sounds like he got irritated and let out some frustration on you, probably unnecessarily. But I've been in his shoes. Everyone knows how to do things better than the people who volunteer; however, nobody else is willing to volunteer. It's very frustrating.

And nowadays we toss the word "bully" around so casually. One definition of bully is "a person who habitually uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker." This sounds like a couple of separate instances where he was just being a jerk. Doesn't appear to be bullying unless he's habitually outside your house making your life difficult.

My suggestion . . . invite him over for a beer. Try making a friend instead of an enemy. Maybe the next time your tree needs to be trimmed, it might be exactly to your liking. Most importantly . . . start waving at him when he drives by, that's just being neighborly!

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Before living in this community I lived in another HOA for 17 years and spent 4 of those early years as the President of that HOA. The first set of officers and board there did very little. When my group took over the goal was to get things moving smoothly. We had one guy that stored a motor home on the side of his house so we asked him to store it somewhere else. He went on a letter and list writing spree, got into shouting matches with neighbors. The board stayed calm never engaging with this person. I asked a neighboring HOA if I could sit in on their meetings to learn, I hired an Attorney and paid for his advise and would send him the letters and lists for a legal oppinion. No one on those two boards ever got into it with one of the members. The President of this HOA has a reputation placing himself outside of the box. When I moved here I went to meetings and asked a lot of questions about the process that I would need to follow to get things done. I've submitted 5 or 6 Maintenance Requests in writing as I've been instructed and All but one have been ignored by this President the only one not ignored was under the juisdiction of a different board member. So, I've never been given the chance to discuss the maintenance request and I thought the tree would go untrimmed like my other requests. Rather than knock on my door and say we are here to trim your tree what are your thoughts he waited out side for me so he could first yell and second tell me the tree isn't mine. Yes, I stood up to him and I pointed out the fact that since he wouldn't get back to me as he is suppossed to I was concerned they would miss me all togeather. So I've been it his shoes before and there is never a reason to yell at a homeowner when they are trying to do it right.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Y not step up again Mike?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

PitA
Posts: 311

Posted:

respect is earned, not demanded

civility is a prerequisite of civilization

be civil and give the respect YOU believe is merited

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Got it Mike. From the way you describe things, the guy kind of sounds like a power-hungry jerk . . . definitely not someone I'd want to have over for a beer . . . forget I recommended that.

Where is the rest of the Board in all of this? While the Pres may be the vocal figurehead, he doesn't make the decisions . . . the Board does. Or maybe he does make the decisions while the other Board Members do little to nothing and allow his reign to continue.

Not that it justifies his behavior, but maybe you've rubbed him and other Board Members the wrong way with having been in the neighborhood for about a year and already attending numerous meetings, asking a lot of questions, submitting 5-6 maintenance requests. Kudos to you for trying to do the right thing, but you may be going overboard and overtaxing him and the other Board Members. Imagine if all 124 homes did the same. Again, not saying that justifies him being a jerk or the Board not following their own approval processes. But the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease . . . sometimes it just gets ignored.

As someone recommended, perhaps you should seek to join this Board. Seems like you've been successful in the past and maybe your current Board could use some assistance.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR on 04/29/2015 8:47 PM
Jon, I think you missed the point. A person doesn't have to tell you that you are being bullied to know that you are.

The point is that he doesn't have the right to yell at anyone when hes the problem. If he did his job the way he is supposed to this situation wouldn't exist. Being President to a HOA doesn't give anyone the right to be a bully.

Mike sorry but you stated he told you he had the right to bully you. In fact that now is your interpretation.

And just maybe your view that he is failing to do his job right just might have something to do with his attitude.

And perhaps his plate just might be full with others who think whenever they make requests the world should stop and they be given what they demand.

And let me offer this sometimes it can be annoying when owners decide they have the right to direct people hired by the board to do as they instruct.
As President of my community board more than once we have had people approach service providers and give them their wish list of items they need to have done.

The bottom line the limbs were trimmed off the tree. You and the President need not be BFFs. And more than likely that won't be happening.

Might help to remember sometimes your actions might just play a role in how people perceive you and how they treat you.

GertrudeC (California)
Posts: 23

Posted:

I walked over to him and asked him why he was so angry? After some discussion he told me that I don't wave at him when he drives by. He also told me that he was waiting for me to come out and say something to the workers rather than knocking on my door and fill me in.

Simple case of he baited you and was hoping you would speak with the workers or ask hey why did you not tell me they were going to start work...then he waited for your response out of view, He is spiteful and will never change, so what if you do not wave to him? If you are stuck in that Community I would suck it up since he will never change only your reactions will give him his much needed power trip. Obviously he has cronies who elected him so trying to change him or make enemies of him will put you as odd man out with some folks. Its all about Politics. again am sorry but hope you can put up with him

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GertrudeC on 05/01/2015 3:41 AM
I walked over to him and asked him why he was so angry? After some discussion he told me that I don't wave at him when he drives by. He also told me that he was waiting for me to come out and say something to the workers rather than knocking on my door and fill me in.

Simple case of he baited you and was hoping you would speak with the workers or ask hey why did you not tell me they were going to start work...then he waited for your response out of view, He is spiteful and will never change, so what if you do not wave to him? If you are stuck in that Community I would suck it up since he will never change only your reactions will give him his much needed power trip. Obviously he has cronies who elected him so trying to change him or make enemies of him will put you as odd man out with some folks. Its all about Politics. again am sorry but hope you can put up with him

Gertrude since you feel comfortable jumping to your own conclusions allow me.

You are basing your views on the OP perception and representation alone. There are two sides to the story.

My guess with 124 homes there might be a few maintenance issues coming in to be handled. Trimming one particular tree might not find its way to the top of the list.

My guess requesting trees to be trimmed in Utah in the month of January might be jumping the gun just a bit.

My guess perhaps the President was elected because either A he is doing a decent job or B no one else will bother to make the effort.

Now I lean towards B because the OP decided to purchase a home there. Did he buy there due to appearance, desirability,
condition or some other factors? Something made this property worth moving into. And would not this President have some role in the condition and presentation of the property?

My guess the OP has played a role in establishing a reputation for being a high maintenance resident. Who requests tree trimming in the middle of Winter, expects notifications from members of the board, micromanages the work performed, takes it upon himself to direct the workers,
Is not then satisfied when his tree is trimmed, and then holds the opinion the President is not doing what he thinks is their job.

Maybe just a tad on the annoying side and just maybe that is the cause of his attitude. Sounds to me like OP requires lots of attention and
time. You wanted the tree trimmed it got trimmed. You want someone to do what you say when you say how you say get a pet.

The President in most cases is not hired help. They volunteer their time. And if they weren't doing their job to some acceptable level why would you have moved there?

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GertrudeC on 05/01/2015 3:41 AM
I walked over to him and asked him why he was so angry? After some discussion he told me that I don't wave at him when he drives by. He also told me that he was waiting for me to come out and say something to the workers rather than knocking on my door and fill me in.

Simple case of he baited you and was hoping you would speak with the workers or ask hey why did you not tell me they were going to start work...then he waited for your response out of view, He is spiteful and will never change, so what if you do not wave to him? If you are stuck in that Community I would suck it up since he will never change only your reactions will give him his much needed power trip. Obviously he has cronies who elected him so trying to change him or make enemies of him will put you as odd man out with some folks. Its all about Politics. again am sorry but hope you can put up with him

What a massive conclusion you've drawn with one side of the story. Sad commentary on why the US is swirling the toilet.

MikeR (Utah)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Jon, I knew you where an HOA President by your first response to my post. I must have hit a nerve!

Again, my point is that a HOA President never has the right to yell at or bully one of the homeowners. Also, you can't demand respect, you have to earn it.

And again, you don't have to explain to me how hard it is to be an unpaid officer in a HOA. I've been there.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeR on 05/01/2015 9:29 AM
Jon, I knew you where an HOA President by your first response to my post. I must have hit a nerve!

Again, my point is that a HOA President never has the right to yell at or bully one of the homeowners. Also, you can't demand respect, you have to earn it.

And again, you don't have to explain to me how hard it is to be an unpaid officer in a HOA. I've been there.

Mike it amazes me you can't even consider the possibility your behavior has contributed to the existing relationship between you and the President.

Your tree got trimmed. Time to find the next maintenance issue so you can submit your written request.

Just maybe the President does not like you nor does he feel the need to take instructions from you as to how things should be done.

It is clear to me you twist and fabricate your version so it serves your agenda. The President NEVER said he was allowed to bully you.
That's your perception. And today's buzz word bully come on did he take your lunch money?

Sounds to me like you have given some the impression you are a PIA. Do you not think anyone is capable of trimming trees without YOUR input?
And do you really think they need to knock on your door, announce themselves and check for your input? After all this is not your tree they were trimming right?

Sounds like you have some need for others to do as you say. Sounds like you have a touch of victim you like to depend on.

The President according to most documents is not required to like you or follow your directions. My guess there is a reason he views you as he does.
My guess you can't begin to understand why.

Here we trim trees several times each year. We hire a tree service give them general direction. We don't knock on doors and ask for input from each resident. Nor do we allow residents to direct the work being done. Seems to work here just fine and it eliminates the need for owners like yourself to submit tree trimming requests.

But when you are looking to create an issue keep ringing the bully bell in the hopes someone might jump on that train. Excuse me I am not interested in the version you are pedaling.

Just what is it your are seeking? It's over move on.......or play the poor victim some more.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Mike - Been in position you are in. The way I found out to handle a bully is to just ignore them. When you see them just smile and keep on going. No conversation no nothing. Keep them guessing what you are doing. You got the tree trimmed this is what you wanted. Follow your declarations when you need work done. Hope this helps.

Nancy

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 05/01/2015 5:54 PM

Posted By MikeR on 05/01/2015 9:29 AM
Jon, I knew you where an HOA President by your first response to my post. I must have hit a nerve!

Again, my point is that a HOA President never has the right to yell at or bully one of the homeowners. Also, you can't demand respect, you have to earn it.

And again, you don't have to explain to me how hard it is to be an unpaid officer in a HOA. I've been there.

Mike it amazes me you can't even consider the possibility your behavior has contributed to the existing relationship between you and the President.

Your tree got trimmed. Time to find the next maintenance issue so you can submit your written request.

Just maybe the President does not like you nor does he feel the need to take instructions from you as to how things should be done.

It is clear to me you twist and fabricate your version so it serves your agenda. The President NEVER said he was allowed to bully you.
That's your perception. And today's buzz word bully come on did he take your lunch money?

Sounds to me like you have given some the impression you are a PIA. Do you not think anyone is capable of trimming trees without YOUR input?
And do you really think they need to knock on your door, announce themselves and check for your input? After all this is not your tree they were trimming right?

Sounds like you have some need for others to do as you say. Sounds like you have a touch of victim you like to depend on.

The President according to most documents is not required to like you or follow your directions. My guess there is a reason he views you as he does.
My guess you can't begin to understand why.

Here we trim trees several times each year. We hire a tree service give them general direction. We don't knock on doors and ask for input from each resident. Nor do we allow residents to direct the work being done. Seems to work here just fine and it eliminates the need for owners like yourself to submit tree trimming requests.

But when you are looking to create an issue keep ringing the bully bell in the hopes someone might jump on that train. Excuse me I am not interested in the version you are pedaling.

Just what is it your are seeking? It's over move on.......or play the poor victim some more.

I am not a PM, but agree 110% with Jon's reply to the over-dramatization of said HO.