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BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I am an owner in a 260 condominium unit association in California. I've been on the Board in the past, but am not now. It has recently come to my attention that one Board member is single-handedly handling all of our HOA reserve investments. She works with a stock broker, but we have no official portfolio manager. He claims to have no fiduciary responsibility for our funds whatsoever. He just does what she tells him to do. She has no training, no certifications and no insurance, were she to make mistakes. She has for years been going for the highest rate of return, but has totally ignored the risk. I'm working on obtaining records to see if we have lost any money in the past, but it is my belief that she has made around $100,000 per year in interest. Not only is she putting money into long term investments, not leaving it fluid for badly needed repairs, but the majority of the portfolio is invested in C-rated or unrated bonds. Less than 3% was invested in CDs. As homeowners we are now bringing this to the attention of a very ignorant Board, who only looks at the return.

I've checked the Davis-Sterling site, but am wondering if anyone knows a specific Civil or Corporate Code that addresses the legality of this. This is not mentioned in our CC&Rs or ByLaws. We currently do not have an investment policy and I'm going to ask the Board to implement this, but unless it is illegal, I doubt they'll do anything to change it.

I've spoken to an attorney about this, but he's going to want a retainer before he gives me any more advice.

Any suggestions or comments would be much appreciated.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
$100K a year in returns is nothing to be scoffed at.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
It is up to the board to request these funds.

It is all liquid, right?
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
No, most of it is tied up for years. As a result, the money is not available for repairs. But the bigger issue is that our principle is at risk. No amount of interest is worth that if this activity is illegal.

In another post here someone mentioned that Federal law requires investments only in CDs or Government bonds. I'm trying to find out if this is true.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 12:36 PM
No, most of it is tied up for years.

Explain
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Oops, that should be principal.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
2.75% is invested in CDs
31.76% is invested in Corporate
65.49%% is invested in CMO/MBS

The current duration of the investments is:
4.83% <1 year
27.94% 1-2 years
22.11% 2-3 years
24.45% 3-5 years
9.92% 5-7 years
1% >7 years

The quality of the investments is:
2.75% CD
< 1% Aa/AA
2.99% A/A
16.20% Baa/BBB
29.94% Ba/BBB
17.22% B/B
6.29% Caa/CCC
7.73% Ca/CC
5.88% C/C or D
10.25% not rated
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
There is a market for CMOs, so they do have some liquidity.

The ratings aren't very high. What do you want to do?
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
You know what the answer here is going to be, get back on the board
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 04/27/2015 12:50 PM
You know what the answer here is going to be, get back on the board

Agree. You have a campaign issue that even the dumbest couch potato (uh, unit owner) can understand: the funds that they paid in are at risk and cannot be used for needed repairs. Enlist a few other candidates and take over the board at the next election.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
But I'm not so sure that they are unavailable
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
BethJ2, your association is playing with fire. The priority for investing HOA reserve funds should be:
1) Safety of principle
2) Liquidity (available for use upon short notice)
3) Yield (return on investment)

Sometimes Board members treat these funds the same way as they invest their own money. However, they have a fiduciary duty to keep the HOA funds safe. With my own money I look for the best return on investment. But when it comes to the investment of HOA reserve funds I consider the priorities to be as listed above.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I have found CA civil code that says the funds must be only invested in cash or cash equivalents

Civil Code §5565. Summary of Association Reserves.
[Old:Civ. Code §1365(a)(2)(A)-(D)]

The summary of the association’s reserves required by paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) of Section 5300 shall be based on the most recent review or study conducted pursuant to Section 5550, shall be based only on assets held in cash or cash equivalents, shall be printed in boldface type, and shall include all of the following: ... you can google the rest, but it is not about how the funds are invested.

Per Wikipedia...
Cash and cash equivalents are the most liquid assets found within the asset portion of a company's balance sheet. Cash equivalents are assets that are readily convertible into cash, such as money market holdings, short-term government bonds or Treasury bills, marketable securities and commercial paper. Cash equivalents are distinguished from other investments through their short-term existence; they mature within 3 months whereas short-term investments are 12 months or less, and long-term investments are any investments that mature in excess of 12 months. Another important condition a cash equivalent needs to satisfy is that the investment should have insignificant risk of change in value; thus, common stock cannot be considered a cash equivalent, but preferred stock acquired shortly before its redemption date can be. These highly liquid financial instruments that are so near their maturity and that there is no significant risk of change in value due to fluctuation of interest rates are known as cash equivalents. Although cash equivalents are not cash, they are generally presented on the statement of financial position together with cash using the title "Cash and Cash Equivalents"

So I suspect our Board has already acted illegally because they were paying higher commissions to a stock broker for investments they should not have been buying and selling in the first place.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Me being one person on the Board isn't going to make much difference. If anything, I will be at risk of getting sued. I'm much more powerful on the other side of the table.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 1:57 PM
Me being one person on the Board isn't going to make much difference. If anything, I will be at risk of getting sued. I'm much more powerful on the other side of the table.

Why would you get sued? That's a new one.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
The Board is acting against the advice of the management company, the CPA, the reserve study and the attorney. This makes each Board member personally liable if there were a law suit, which there very likely will be.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
There would only be a lawsuit if there was a catastrophic loss
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
y'all elected them

send certified mail, return receipt requested, addressee only to the registered agent

or

unelect them
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Not true, Mark. I live in California. People can sue for breach of fiduciary duty. Owners might also sue for the commissions paid to the broker for the illegal investments. There does not have to be a loss. I don't want to be on the Board if or when that happens.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 2:17 PM
Not true, Mark. I live in California. People can sue for breach of fiduciary duty. Owners might also sue for the commissions paid to the broker for the illegal investments. There does not have to be a loss. I don't want to be on the Board if or when that happens.

You can only sue for damages.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
I would also argue that all your investments are in fact liquid and are not illegal.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
So in your opinion, this is all OK unless we lose money?
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
And even though we have Civil Code that says otherwise?
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
No, it's not OK. But there is nothing to sue over. So hiding behind "I can't serve on the board because..." is cowardice or lazy
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 2:26 PM
And even though we have Civil Code that says otherwise?

No it doesn't
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
The money it would take to fight a law suit would be more than the damages. Since the Board went against the advice of the attorney, they would have to personally cover those costs.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Well, thank you Mark for calling me cowardly and lazy. Without giving you a five year history of making incredibly changes for our HOA in a positive direction, I'll just leave it to say that you are clueless.
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
BethJ2,

Insist that your objections be recorded in the minutes.

That action will 'let you off the hook' should legal action be brought against the BOD.

May also be a 'wake-up call' to the other directors.

"Mr. President, I would like my objection(s) be recorded in the minutes."

Then check to make sure they were actually recorded accurately after approval.

Assuming California is an open meeting state .......

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Beth

Like it or not, what the BOD is doing seems legal. It also seems you are willing to shoot arrows at them from a distance. You are also begrudging people making money as they make you money.

All that said, I do agree with you that one should not take risks with an associations money. I disagree with what your BOD is doing from a potential risk point of view.

I am VP and Treasurer of our HOA and like the Hippocratic Oath of which the first oath is do no harm, we will only invest in CD's. Not something I would do with my personal money but, I have to answer to a higher authority. My fellow owners.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/27/2015 5:37 PM
Beth

Like it or not, what the BOD is doing seems legal. It also seems you are willing to shoot arrows at them from a distance. You are also begrudging people making money as they make you money.

All that said, I do agree with you that one should not take risks with an associations money. I disagree with what your BOD is doing from a potential risk point of view.

I am VP and Treasurer of our HOA and like the Hippocratic Oath of which the first oath is do no harm, we will only invest in CD's. Not something I would do with my personal money but, I have to answer to a higher authority. My fellow owners.

I agree, securities are thought of as liquid (or liquid enough).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 2:28 PM

Since the Board went against the advice of the attorney, they would have to personally cover those costs.

I am unaware of any statutes or common law that would support that. Could you provide some citations to authorities to support your theory that board members breach their fiduciary duty by failing to follow advice from their association's attorney? Or maybe the corollary theory that a board member is immune from lawsuit if he follows advice of the association's counsel?

BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Not sure if this is just a CA thing, but it has to do with the insurance policy you have that protects the Board in the event of a lawsuit. Read your policy to see what it says about Boards who go against the advice of the professionals they hire, including the management company, CPA and attorney.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 04/27/2015 6:56 PM
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/27/2015 2:28 PM

Since the Board went against the advice of the attorney, they would have to personally cover those costs.


I am unaware of any statutes or common law that would support that. Could you provide some citations to authorities to support your theory that board members breach their fiduciary duty by failing to follow advice from their association's attorney? Or maybe the corollary theory that a board member is immune from lawsuit if he follows advice of the association's counsel?


Check out Arizona nonprofit act 10-3842. Paraphrased, it says an officer can rely on statements of legal counsel, unless the officer has knowledge that makes the statements unwarranted. There are many other standards here, such as acting in good faith. The officer is not liable if in compliance with the section. I'm not sure how to interpret it, just passing it along for your interest. California has a similar law for directors.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, Beth & Jeff; I believe you're both referring to what is called the Business Judgement Rule (BJR) which is everywhere in the US, I think, with some variation in language.

In CA and in most places, I think, there is no requirement that the advice of any experts MUST be followed. I don't think, Beth, that youryour O&D insurance says you must. This applies IF the directors are practicing their duty of loyalty & care to their HOAs and use reasonable decisions-making.

Stupidity, unfortunately, is not a breach of fiduciary duty.

Go to your next board meetings and complain about this risky practice. Take others with you--hold all directors' heels to the fire. Also request a copy of the investment records which you have a right to in CA.

Finally, visit davistirling.com and scroll down the Main Index to the Investments Menu. See what's there. I don't have time as I have my own Board meetings today.

We only invest in insured funds and we ladder our investments so that there's usually some liquidity at all times. (No, I do not know that that means!) But I do not think there's any law preventing risky investments for HOAs. But I believe our CC&Rs say our investments must be insured.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Our D&O policy does not cover separate counsel when a Board member or group of members goes rogue. Not those words exactly, but our Board has discussed this extensively with our attorney in the past. Our ByLaws and CC&Rs are very old and do not address any of this at all.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Our D&O policy does not cover separate counsel when a Board member or group of members goes rogue. Not those words exactly, but our Board has discussed this extensively with our attorney in the past. Our ByLaws and CC&Rs are very old and do not address any of this at all.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
We are asking our current Board to have our attorney draft an investment policy for the association that hopefully they will adapt.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BethJ2 on 04/28/2015 11:21 AM
Our D&O policy does not cover separate counsel when a Board member or group of members goes rogue. Not those words exactly, but our Board has discussed this extensively with our attorney in the past. Our ByLaws and CC&Rs are very old and do not address any of this at all.

Who's going rouge? Your treasurer is doing this with the full blessing of the board and community.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Ignorance is bliss!
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/27/2015 5:37 PM
Beth

Like it or not, what the BOD is doing seems legal. It also seems you are willing to shoot arrows at them from a distance.

He said it well
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If you WERE on the Board, Beth, and went on record as opposed to the Board's investment strategy, you would not be sued. But you may be right in this case that being off the Board gives your more freedom to gather others for support, etc. Your HOA attorney drafting an investment policy sound good. But how is it that you have access to this attorney?? Or is s/he not your HOA attorney? Except for being prudent, the CA attorneys at Davis-stirling.com do not ciste any restrictions. But they do spell out what in their opinion is a "prudent" investment strategy.

Have you attended open board meetings and complained at open forum about your risky investments??

Took a quick look at davis-stirling.com and found this, Beth:

"INVESTING RESERVE FUNDS
The board shall exercise prudent fiscal management in maintaining the integrity of the reserve account. (Civ. Code §5515)

Investment Strategy. Prudent investments of reserve monies should focus on the following parameters in their order of importance:

Safety. A board's primary goal should be the preservation of the association's reserves against loss. Accordingly, investing in mutual funds, money market funds, and municipal bonds is considered by many to be too risky.

Certificates of Deposit, Treasury Bills and Ginnie Mae securities are generally considered safe because they are direct obligations of the U.S. government. Simple bank savings accounts, while secure, may be too conservative because of their low rates of return. Sometimes an association's governing documents require that funds be kept in FDIC insured accounts.

Liquidity. . . . If reserves are tied up on long-term investments, they will not be available in the event the association needs to (i) use funds for emergency repairs, (ii) borrow for short-term operating expenses or (iii) repair or replace large common area components that reach the end of their useful life earlier than expected. Accordingly, investing all of an association's reserves into a jumbo 3-year CD would not be prudent. A more prudent strategy is to invest in smaller CDs and stagger them to mature every six months.

Yield. . . .Boards should seek a reasonable return on the association's reserve accounts but should never adopt a strategy that emphasizes return over preservation of capital ..."

Read more: Investing Reserve Funds http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/1503/Default.aspx#ixzz3YdUyWpxm
from Davis-Stirling.com by Adams Kessler PLC.
BethJ2 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Kerry, I was the on the Board for four years and the advice I got from the attorney was during that time. I like the Davis-Sterling site, but our attorney did not. She would rather we pay her to answer simple questions.

Homeowners are beginning to make progress with this Board, having presented their findings to them. I believe they had no clue what she was doing. In the past they voted to allow her to do as she pleased without question or even review. I am hoping that now they will realize the risk and hopefully take the advice of the professionals who they had ignored in the past.

There are other homeowners who are talking to lawyers and threatening to petition to recall the Board. If I were on the Board I'd be cut out of the information loop and my input to them would take on an entirely different meaning. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the Board is smart enough to give this its due diligence and correct the problem before any of that happens.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
Very interesting discussion. Sure have enjoyed reading everybody's comments.

Our investment policy is such that we can only invest in FDIC insured CD's.

Do others of you have an investment policy? If so, can u share it? Thanks!


Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
FDIC only

not MY money, it's THEIR money (yes, I know I'm one of 'their')
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
The problem is that FDIC insured investments have terrible interest.

Gov and muni bond and bond funds are very safe
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Paying a lawyer who knows nothing about investemnts to draft an investment policy = a waste of good money.

Going rouge is not and never has been a legal term defined under the law.

And NO it is unlikely even in the California code, that boards are REQUIRED to obey the OPINIONS of CPA, lawyers, and other service providers.

Hell I have gone against legal advice many times. They have an opinion but they do not have the final say or you should turn running the property over to the lawyers. Yeah now that makes sense!

Business judgement rule best to fully understand it before you decide to live by what you thing is its meaning.

FDIC insurance is a feel good program that benefits the banks and investment houses by having the US taxpayers cover any losses. In in event of a major downturn the program is underfunded and could never cover the total assets it insures.

IF you have money in a small bamk and it goes belly up perhaps tha might cover you. In the event Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo goes under don't hold your breath wating for your reimbursement check.

Biggest problem with investing is most board members are ignorant with handling their own money let alone the property's funds.

Yes, CDs are for the most part safe. But wih a current taxable return of less than 1% you are going no where fast. CDs are great for banks not so good for investors right now.

Not sure in this particular situation whether the board supports this policy or just takes the easy way out and allows it. Finding out would require effort, time, and determination.

As a general rule I would not allow board members to oversee the investment of community funds without a clear understanding, and complete knowledge of what the money was to be invested in and why. Investment rule #1 NEVER INVESTMENT IN ANYTHING YOU DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND. Absent that bank accounts and CDs. Which is not much beter than leaving it under your mattress these days.

PitA
Posts: 311
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 04/27/2015 2:38 PM
BethJ2,

Insist that your objections be recorded in the minutes.

That action will 'let you off the hook' should legal action be brought against the BOD.

May also be a 'wake-up call' to the other directors.

"Mr. President, I would like my objection(s) be recorded in the minutes."

Then check to make sure they were actually recorded accurately after approval.

Assuming California is an open meeting state .......


oops ... thought the OP is on the board, not previously
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
I hear ya about government and (some) municipal bonds and bond funds being safe; however, i don't believe any of those protect principal. In my way of thinking, protecting principal (especially when you are investing other people's money) is the highest calling, regardless of the return on investment.

Some would argue - because of the low rate of return on CD's - that a CD does not protect principal; because of the rate of inflation kicking in. So far, in my opinion, the rate of inflation has not been high enough (so far) to risk principal.

oljim, in texas

Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 04/29/2015 7:08 AM
The problem is that FDIC insured investments have terrible interest.

Gov and muni bond and bond funds are very safe


Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimR24 on 04/29/2015 9:51 AM
I hear ya about government and (some) municipal bonds and bond funds being safe; however, i don't believe any of those protect principal. In my way of thinking, protecting principal (especially when you are investing other people's money) is the highest calling, regardless of the return on investment.

Some would argue - because of the low rate of return on CD's - that a CD does not protect principal; because of the rate of inflation kicking in. So far, in my opinion, the rate of inflation has not been high enough (so far) to risk principal.

USG bonds are as safe as the FDIC. Given that some CDs are giving 0.10% interest, you could argue that the cash should just be put into a vault also.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimR24 on 04/29/2015 9:51 AM
I hear ya about government and (some) municipal bonds and bond funds being safe; however, i don't believe any of those protect principal. In my way of thinking, protecting principal (especially when you are investing other people's money) is the highest calling, regardless of the return on investment.

Some would argue - because of the low rate of return on CD's - that a CD does not protect principal; because of the rate of inflation kicking in. So far, in my opinion, the rate of inflation has not been high enough (so far) to risk principal.

USG bonds are as safe as the FDIC. Given that some CDs are giving 0.10% interest, you could argue that the cash should just be put into a vault also.

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