HOA denying access to warramty information

Started by AviG • 15 replies • 1961 views

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AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

My Condo is located in the San Francisco bay area and I am not on any committee/board. I requested a copy of the warranty for siding that the board mentioned in one of our association meetings. I was told its not a document that I am allowed to access by civil code. I looked it up and the allowable documents do not mention specifically the warranty information but they do mention executed contract. Does anyone know if the executed contract would have warranty information? Or any other way to access the warranty information?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Per the Davis-Stirling website:

Member Review of Contracts. Once contracts have been approved by the board, they can be reviewed by the membership. (Civ. Code §5200(a)(4).) This includes all non-privileged contracts. Privileged contracts do not include contracts for maintenance, management, or legal services. (Civ. Code §5215(a)(5)(D).)

Read more: Contract Formation http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/3199/Default.aspx#ixzz3Y56VS0dG
from Davis-Stirling.com by Adams Kessler PLC.

Source: http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/3199/Default.aspx#axzz3Y55nttDj

An express warranty would be part of the contract and open to inspection.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Larry beat me to the answer, Avi, and you are right about being able to inspect executed contracts. Make your request in writing--email is fine-- to the board or your property mgr.

How old is your HOA? Do you recall why the siding was mentioned at the Board meeting?

Welcome to HOATalk!

AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Thanks Larry and Kerry.

I think the board has been in place since 1980 (condos built in 1965) but I could be wrong about the board.

Reason why warranty came up:

I am planning to renovate my bathroom and according to new CA law, I need to install an exhaust with vent going outside (earlier we could go by with having a window and that's what I have right now). The board is against the exhaust and giving me variety of reasons, the prominent ones being:
1. Exterior wall that does not belong to owner
2. Siding warranty will be voided

When I asked for the warranty, the management company said the board was wrong in saying warranty is an issue. But I insisted on getting the warranty, then they brought the civil code.

PS: There are several other condos in my association which have a vent either for bath or kitchen going out through the siding. I think they may have done it without telling the board. My condo is at the entrance to our community so it would be seen by everyone

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AviG on 04/22/2015 4:23 PM
Thanks Larry and Kerry.

I think the board has been in place since 1980 (condos built in 1965) but I could be wrong about the board.

Reason why warranty came up:

I am planning to renovate my bathroom and according to new CA law, I need to install an exhaust with vent going outside (earlier we could go by with having a window and that's what I have right now). The board is against the exhaust and giving me variety of reasons, the prominent ones being:
1. Exterior wall that does not belong to owner
2. Siding warranty will be voided

When I asked for the warranty, the management company said the board was wrong in saying warranty is an issue. But I insisted on getting the warranty, then they brought the civil code.

PS: There are several other condos in my association which have a vent either for bath or kitchen going out through the siding. I think they may have done it without telling the board. My condo is at the entrance to our community so it would be seen by everyone

If the siding is original to the property I would even doubt they have a copy of the warranty or that it would still be in affect.

Was the siding replaced?

So then how are the other units going to satisfy this new CA code?

Do you have the wordage of this new law? I would think it those who now required the installation of a vent might also provide you with the ability to install one. Oh wait that might require thinking things through.

Just what type of exhaust are you thinking about installing?

Proper installation would be hardly noticeable.

Is the board aware of this new law?

Sounds like we have a failure to communicate.

AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 04/22/2015 5:23 PM

JonD,
I do not know the whole story with the siding. They kept saying it will void the warranty and that triggered me asking for it. The new code will apply to anyone who is either building a new home or renovating the bathroom. Existing units do not have to do anything.

The HOA board does not want any penetration on the siding. They recommend a ventless exhaust (didn't know that existed) but then I wont get a permit with that (I had a code consult with the building permit office). I made the board aware of the new law. Their (Board and management company) response "It depends on who you ask". I have been to the city hall twice before going to the board. So finally they will go to city hall this week and get the facts (either way I want this to be taken care of - exhaust or no exhaust).

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AviG on 04/22/2015 6:10 PM

Posted By JonD1 on 04/22/2015 5:23 PM

If the law and code now require the installation of a vent/exhaust I would think the board must make that even possible for you to do.

IMO a ventless exhaust in a bathroom does nothing. How does that help remove moisture? Which is the mani purpose of a bathroom exhaust as I understand it.

I would get a copy of the law, explain to the board you cannot satisfy code without a vent being installed and maybe the lights might go on.

Just curious do you have dryers in the units? If so how are they vented?

We have both exhaust vents in bathrooms and dryer vents both exhaust outside. Leaves a 4 inch hole in the outside wall covered with a protective cap.
No affect on the siding's ability to seal out the weather if installed properly.

Good luck pushing this along.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 04/22/2015 6:33 PM
I would get a copy of the law, explain to the board you cannot satisfy code without a vent being installed and maybe the lights might go on.

Hi Avi

Here is a link to information you may want to provide to your BOD:

https://resaveguide.lbl.gov/ca-ventilation-requirements

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Ignore the warranty info.

You mentioned that there are other units that have vents through the wall.
Stick with that, that you are not asking for anything that hasn't already been allowed to others.

AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Thanks everyone for all the replies. For now, the HOA along with the management company insists that "it depends on who you ask about the new rule in the building permits office" and they want to ask themselves.

I did show them the guidelines published by the county but they insist its not forced

Dryers in unit are also not allowed if you don't have an existing vent. Some units do have authorized vent (the ones that don't even have a window in the bath)

I will wait till end of day Friday to reach out to them. Personally I am fed up with the management company and am considering contacting the other home owners to see if they have similar issues with them and see if we can get rid of them.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

It's not the MC or the HOA's job to "ask the building department". Bathrooms and dryers clearly require exterior venting as per the International Mechanical Code.

Other units have penetrated the siding, and they are unable to give you a substantiated reason why you can't, except to cite a warranty they can't come up with and refer you to vents that don't exist.

What kind of siding is there now?

AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 04/23/2015 8:37 AM
It's not the MC or the HOA's job to "ask the building department". Bathrooms and dryers clearly require exterior venting as per the International Mechanical Code.

Other units have penetrated the siding, and they are unable to give you a substantiated reason why you can't, except to cite a warranty they can't come up with and refer you to vents that don't exist.

What kind of siding is there now?

Their stance is that exterior wall belongs to HOA and not the condo owner so I need their permission to penetrate the wall but they won't allow me.
Yes I hear you and it boils my blood that they don't have a valid reason and this has been dragging on for 2 months now.
I have no clue on the kind of siding but looks similar to fiber cement siding

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

They are correct, the exterior wall, and very likely the interior walls do belong to the Association.

If it's anything other than stucco or related products such as EIFS, cutting in a penetration and flashing it correctly is not difficult as long as there is access.

AviG (California)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 04/23/2015 8:48 AM
They are correct, the exterior wall, and very likely the interior walls do belong to the Association.

If it's anything other than stucco or related products such as EIFS, cutting in a penetration and flashing it correctly is not difficult as long as there is access.

The interior walls belong to the home owner. They just dont want penetration in the exterior wall as they fear rain water will get in and cause damage.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AviG on 04/23/2015 8:50 AM

The interior walls belong to the home owner. They just dont want penetration in the exterior wall as they fear rain water will get in and cause damage.

Around here, it is uncommon to have the individual HO's own the interior partition walls in wood framed Type V buildings in order to make sure wing nuts don't remove bearing walls. But I don't know what type of building you have, and it doesn't matter anyway.

There fear of rain water is kind of funny, given that the dangers of mold from increased condensate is probably almost equal.

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