Approval Question

BarbieD (Maryland)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Hi, we are waiting for the board to approve our application for a new front door/window. They have 45 days to approve it, however due to circumstances beyond our control, rain we need it replaced asap.

I've read the docs and it says that we will be fined $100 per 15 days etc, etc, so we figure it's worth the fine instead of waiting around for the board to get together to approve it.

So here's my question; doesn't the board have to get together to decide or vote that we are indeed in violation? And if they do in fact get together to discuss our violation, couldn't they then go ahead and approve the application?

The board acts as the ACC too, so to vote on the violation and then not vote on the application would feel like a spiteful act.

Thanks in advance!

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

In most HOAs like yours, the board/acc meets once a month. If there is a management company, the PM puts together a package for the board which includes all of the open requests. So I think you can see where the 45 days comes from. A lot depends on whether your request comes in just before or just after a board meeting.

Here are a few suggestions:
1. Find out when next meeting will be.
2. Find out if your HOA has a process to expedite a request.
3. Are there specifications and are you following them.
3. Check around your neighborhood. If a lot of houses have a door/window that is similar to the one you have, then it will be harder to find fault with yours.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

It's probably too late now, but our HOA has an architectural style manual which describes the styles of the approved windows, shutters, doors, decks, patios, etc. that the homeowner can install with minimum paperwork and time involved. The manual was prepared by the architectural committee and previously approved by the board. A homeowner simply emails the request to the property manager, who files the request and within 24 hours (often on the same day) emails the request to the chairperson of the architectural committee. The request is then circulated by email among the committee members, and, provided the design conforms to the styles that have been previously adopted, the request is automatically approved and the approved request is sent via email to the property manager, who then files the approval and notifies the homeowner. The entire process takes only 3 or 4 days. Sometimes, approvals have been received in less time.

Requests that do not conform to the architectural style manual can take a month or longer.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbieD on 04/14/2015 5:53 AM

So here's my question; doesn't the board have to get together to decide or vote that we are indeed in violation? And if they do in fact get together to discuss our violation, couldn't they then go ahead and approve the application?

You can certainly request that they call a special meeting or do an action without a meeting due to the weather. The approving authority is free to comply with or simply reject any such request. However, it can't hurt to ask.

The question I would ask would be how long has it been since the door needed replaced? Since doors don't simply fail overnight unless damaged, it becomes a question if the rush is due to weather or poor planning.

BarbieD (Maryland)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/14/2015 1:56 PM

Posted By BarbieD on 04/14/2015 5:53 AM

So here's my question; doesn't the board have to get together to decide or vote that we are indeed in violation? And if they do in fact get together to discuss our violation, couldn't they then go ahead and approve the application?

You can certainly request that they call a special meeting or do an action without a meeting due to the weather. The approving authority is free to comply with or simply reject any such request. However, it can't hurt to ask.

The question I would ask would be how long has it been since the door needed replaced? Since doors don't simply fail overnight unless damaged, it becomes a question if the rush is due to weather or poor planning.

Thank you, if I understand your question, why would that be relevant? are you asking that if we ignored the problem, then the board could take it's time, as opposed to a truck was backed into it, say this past weekend, then they would likely be quicker about it? I don't think that is what you mean is it?

It would seem that they can approve this without much thought, it is a close enough replacement, it didn't occur to me to ask them to hold a special meeting, but again, it can be done via email. What a great idea! Let me check again what it takes to do that, I did read that somewhere.
Thanks again.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Barbie,

I suggest simply talking with your Board and/or Management Company to explain your situation and get feedback from them. A couple phone calls and/or emails should do the trick rather than assuming what they may or may not do. They may not be able to grant "approval" right away because a meeting may be needed for that. But at least when it comes time for them to meet and/or make the decision, they will have that info already.

Unless your new door is drastically different in style and/or color than what you had before or whatever else exists in your neighborhood, the Board (in my opinion) would be silly to not approve your change. Additionally, if your circumstances are as you described them and the door had to be replaced immediately, them issuing fines would be petty and ridiculous as well . . . although petty and ridiculous is the MO of some Boards.

Good luck.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbieD on 04/14/2015 3:26 PM

Posted By TimB4 on 04/14/2015 1:56 PM
<
The question I would ask would be how long has it been since the door needed replaced? Since doors don't simply fail overnight unless damaged, it becomes a question if the rush is due to weather or poor planning.

Thank you, if I understand your question, why would that be relevant?

Well, to me, I don't see why I should have to jump through hoops and rearrange my schedule because you failed to properly plan.

Now, if it was damage that required the door to be replaced, I'm personally more willing to accommodate a request for a special meeting.

That's just me. It may or may not be the opinion of those who volunteer their time to serve on your board.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Emergency: Imminent threat to life or major loss of property.

if true, proceed but make sure the replacement is within the guidelines

if not, wait for approval

remember: failure to plan ahead on your part does NOT constitute an emergency on my part

BarbieD (Maryland)
Posts: 4

Posted:

thank you for your answers, the question is, if the board has to approve a violation letter, then they must do so with a meeting of some sort. So if they get together for that, they can also approve our door, could they not? And if they chose to not do so, it would be for spiteful reasons only.

I ask this so that we know when he comes tomorrow to replace it, without approval, we should only be looking at the initial violation fine, and it shouldn't have to rack up for another four weeks simply because they purposely chose to not approve it.

Trying to get contractors scheduled while waiting for the board to approve is difficult at best, so we will be circumventing the approval, but will be doing so with full understanding of the consequences. Thus my question here.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Barbie,

It's not really possible for anyone here to answer your specific question and confirm what you want to have confirmed because we don't know how your Board operates, whether you have a management company or not, and what the procedures/rules are w/in your HOA.

The Board may not have to meet at all in order to have a violation letter sent. In my HOA, confirmed violations are confronted ASAP and do not always wait until a meeting occurs. Things could be done via email, especially for clear violations of the documents that don't require any sort of discussion or debate.

Your Board could do many different things, one of which is to send you a violation letter and/or fine for not following the established rules. And they could do that simultaneously with approving your request (or not). It depends on what your docs say and how your Board operates.

Again, a lot of your angst and uncertainty could be lessened if you would take proactive steps to reach out, explain your situation, and request forgiveness rather than wait and see and then complain about the outcome.

IMO, the process is really quite simple . . . plan ahead for your improvement, obtain approval, complete work. As others have pointed out, unless a catastrophic event occurred that caused your door to fail, you likely had ample time to allow the process to work as it was intended to work. It is frustrating for homeowners when they want to make an improvement and the HOA process seems to delay things a bit; however, 99% of the time the homeowner is at fault for not planning ahead and incorporating established processes into their timeline.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Barbie,

It's not really possible for anyone here to answer your specific question and confirm what you want to have confirmed because we don't know how your Board operates, whether you have a management company or not, and what the procedures/rules are w/in your HOA.

The Board may not have to meet at all in order to have a violation letter sent. In my HOA, confirmed violations are confronted ASAP and do not always wait until a meeting occurs. Things could be done via email, especially for clear violations of the documents that don't require any sort of discussion or debate.

Your Board could do many different things, one of which is to send you a violation letter and/or fine for not following the established rules. And they could do that simultaneously with approving your request (or not). It depends on what your docs say and how your Board operates.

Again, a lot of your angst and uncertainty could be lessened if you would take proactive steps to reach out, explain your situation, and request forgiveness rather than wait and see and then complain about the outcome.

IMO, the process is really quite simple . . . plan ahead for your improvement, obtain approval, complete work. As others have pointed out, unless a catastrophic event occurred that caused your door to fail, you likely had ample time to allow the process to work as it was intended to work. It is frustrating for homeowners when they want to make an improvement and the HOA process seems to delay things a bit; however, 99% of the time the homeowner is at fault for not planning ahead and incorporating established processes into their timeline.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Barbie

Early on you said "it is close enough". Be sure this does not come back to bite you.

BarbieD (Maryland)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Got the approval! So glad this exists for us to get help and or information! This is the first time in 17 years we needed anything. Perhaps they the HOA Board and Manager cruise this sight themselves! Thanks again for your replies!

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceF1 on 04/14/2015 9:50 AM
It's probably too late now, but our HOA has an architectural style manual which describes the styles of the approved windows, shutters, doors, decks, patios, etc. that the homeowner can install with minimum paperwork and time involved. The manual was prepared by the architectural committee and previously approved by the board. A homeowner simply emails the request to the property manager, who files the request and within 24 hours (often on the same day) emails the request to the chairperson of the architectural committee. The request is then circulated by email among the committee members, and, provided the design conforms to the styles that have been previously adopted, the request is automatically approved and the approved request is sent via email to the property manager, who then files the approval and notifies the homeowner. The entire process takes only 3 or 4 days. Sometimes, approvals have been received in less time.

Requests that do not conform to the architectural style manual can take a month or longer.

What a great approach! I'll bring this to our board, as there has been talk of setting up design standards and this could be another way to encourage people to file exterior change request forms properly.

Right now, homeowners are told to send their forms to the property manager so the Board can discuss them at the next meeting (if approved, the homeowner usually gets a letter within the next 7-10 business days, which is why they're asked to allow 30 days for the process). The homeowner can also make a short presentation at the meeting (he or she has to notify the property manager first to be placed on the agenda).

If it's an emergency situation (immediate safety or livability issue) the ACR is emailed to the property manager and then distributed among the Board for a decision, which is later noted at the next meeting so it'll hit the minutes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265

Posted:

Bruce,

If an application comes in through email and does not meet the standards or guidelines openly distributed, does your arch committee still handle everything through email or do they have meetings?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CfD on 04/21/2015 4:08 AM
Bruce,

If an application comes in through email and does not meet the standards or guidelines openly distributed, does your arch committee still handle everything through email or do they have meetings?

We have a somewhat similar arrangement as Bruce. Guidelines published. Docs call for separate ACC, but not enough volunteers - so board acts as ACC.

Change requests that come in via email do not go to MC. Instead, we have a separate acr@ email address. Any request that comes into acr@ is automatically forwarded to all 5 board members.

We have 2 board members who are designated to review incoming requests. Either one is authorized to approve requests that meet guideline standards. He/she will usually email approval to HO same day.

If email does not meet standards, he/she will send an email about the issue to the rest of the board. If no one objects, he/she sends approval to HO next day.

The only time we meet is when request comes in that no HO has ever done before. When that happens, the two designated board members will come up with a recommendation which we will vote on at a meeting (or without a meeting by unanimous consent).

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265

Posted:

NpS,

I would be more than happy if our association followed a procedure similar to yours, as long as everything is well documented...especially any variances or waivers, and they are appended to the meeting minutes with reasons so the membership has knowledge of what is going on.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CfD on 04/22/2015 4:21 AM
NpS,

I would be more than happy if our association followed a procedure similar to yours, as long as everything is well documented...especially any variances or waivers, and they are appended to the meeting minutes with reasons so the membership has knowledge of what is going on.

Easy for us because we are townhouses. Variances easy to see from the street. Also, not much that hasn't been done yet - except solar. We'll definitely meet when our first solar request comes in - or maybe we'll try to get in front of it by researching it ahead of time. If one or two board members are interested enough, they will scope out options and issues for the community.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.