LornaR (Ohio)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
What if you were not told at closing there were deed restrictions and you never signed anything agreeing to them? Are you still bound to them
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What if when you purchased you were not told you would be in an HOA
Started by LornaR • 19 replies • 2375 views
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BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
Yep. You did not specify the state but quite a few hold the title company responsible to tell you and provide you with a copy of the governing documents.
It doesn't matter what you signed; the lot is part of the Association. When you purchased it, you as the owner joined the Association. The is part of the concept of a deed restricted community.
It doesn't matter what you signed; the lot is part of the Association. When you purchased it, you as the owner joined the Association. The is part of the concept of a deed restricted community.
LornaR (Ohio)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
My neighbor was not told it was a HOA nor of the restrictions and the HOA are now telling her she owes 3 years of back dues that the previous owner did not pay. She was not a member how can they make her pay those dues.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Lorna:
For clarification sakes did your friend ask the specific question when they bought the home or where they simply not informed? Either way, if there are deed restrictions on the home it doesn't matter what anyone told you, they are still enforeable and they owe the three years back dues. Question now becomes, did the seller do a good job of disclosing information or did they cover up info at the time of sale to make a sale?
My advice is to pay the dues, if there is any recourse to be sought it is with the seller as it is their responsbility upon selling.
For clarification sakes did your friend ask the specific question when they bought the home or where they simply not informed? Either way, if there are deed restrictions on the home it doesn't matter what anyone told you, they are still enforeable and they owe the three years back dues. Question now becomes, did the seller do a good job of disclosing information or did they cover up info at the time of sale to make a sale?
My advice is to pay the dues, if there is any recourse to be sought it is with the seller as it is their responsbility upon selling.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is viewed as the "Buyer's responsibility" to be informed of a HOA. It is NOT the responsibility of the realtors, mortgage company, lawyers, or the HOA to inform the buyer. The necessary information is considered PUBLIC and is available at the local COUNTY courthouse Records department.
It may not be fair but it is legal. I am surprised this wasn't discovered during the mortgage approval. The mortgage lender had to put in the HOA fees when figuring out if I could afford the home. You can't get out of HOA fees and it is considered a budgetary requirement much like any outstanding loan payments/utilities.
The "form" signed most likely stated this: (Paraphrased): I ____ have read and and agreed to the deed restrictions of the property" It may also mention that the deed restrictions are part of a Homeowner's association. Many people really NEVER read a single CC&R when they purchase a home in a HOA. The seller may not even have a copy. Mine brought their copy in the day of the sale. Who's going to read 100 pages of paperwork before signing a bunch of papers? Closing is NOT when you want to find out all these details.
Sorry, but ignorance is NOT bliss in this case. The HOA should have sent her notices. If she chose to ignore them for any reason, doesn't make her less liable. If the neighbor is lucky, they can start making payments and avoid any liens/foreclosures. They may be able to request any late fees or interest be scratched off if they agree to pay the back dues. There is always room for compromise if you just ask.
It may not be fair but it is legal. I am surprised this wasn't discovered during the mortgage approval. The mortgage lender had to put in the HOA fees when figuring out if I could afford the home. You can't get out of HOA fees and it is considered a budgetary requirement much like any outstanding loan payments/utilities.
The "form" signed most likely stated this: (Paraphrased): I ____ have read and and agreed to the deed restrictions of the property" It may also mention that the deed restrictions are part of a Homeowner's association. Many people really NEVER read a single CC&R when they purchase a home in a HOA. The seller may not even have a copy. Mine brought their copy in the day of the sale. Who's going to read 100 pages of paperwork before signing a bunch of papers? Closing is NOT when you want to find out all these details.
Sorry, but ignorance is NOT bliss in this case. The HOA should have sent her notices. If she chose to ignore them for any reason, doesn't make her less liable. If the neighbor is lucky, they can start making payments and avoid any liens/foreclosures. They may be able to request any late fees or interest be scratched off if they agree to pay the back dues. There is always room for compromise if you just ask.
Former HOA President
LornaR (Ohio)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
Let me clarify the HOA is asking her to pay dues that were incuured by the previous owner. When I read my restrictions it states a member is a title holder. Why would she have to pay dues for a time frame that she did not own the home.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No a HOA can NOT charge for the previous owner's dues IF that is the case. This shows a sign that the HOA may have issues. If necessary, the owner may want to contact a lawyer and send them a letter informing them they can't charge for previous owner's owed dues.
Remember, HOA's are NOT run by "professional" people. They make mistakes and may not understand what they are doing wrong. This may be a learning experience for them as well. So try to inform them gently.
Remember, HOA's are NOT run by "professional" people. They make mistakes and may not understand what they are doing wrong. This may be a learning experience for them as well. So try to inform them gently.
Former HOA President
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Our annual assessments may only be collected against the legal deed holder and only for the periods owned by the legal deed holder. In other words, the HOA should have collected the back assessments from the previous owner and the current owner is not responsible for them.
Our association files liens against properties after the third month they are delinquent, not the third year! That way, at closing the sellers would have to pay off the lien to clear the title.
Our association files liens against properties after the third month they are delinquent, not the third year! That way, at closing the sellers would have to pay off the lien to clear the title.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Lorna:
At this point I would leave the lawyers out of it. Simply contact the HOA, offer to pay for the time they have lived there and tell them that you are not responsible for the previous owner.
At this point I would leave the lawyers out of it. Simply contact the HOA, offer to pay for the time they have lived there and tell them that you are not responsible for the previous owner.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Lorna, if you closed at a title company they probably provided a document you signed which attached the Declaration of CC&Rs to your deed unbeknownst to you. It is your responsibility to know what you are signing. However, if you did not sign you are not legally responsible. As far as delinquent assessments the title company may be responsible if the owner received title insurance.
LornaR (Ohio)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
Rodger there are about 10 people in this sub-division that bought HUD homes and none of them were given a declaration at closing, and did not sign anything agreeing to the deed restrictions and the way they found out their existence was when they recieved their first letter from the HOA asking them to put their trash cans away.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Lorna, I find this hard to believe. Have you carefully read every document you signed? Why not go back to the person who conducted the closing and request clarification. Also, you can request copies of the controlling documents.
BTW did you thank them for asking owners to put away trash cans? That really improves the appearance of a neighborhood. I can not understand why anyone who values their home would leave trashy items in view.
BTW did you thank them for asking owners to put away trash cans? That really improves the appearance of a neighborhood. I can not understand why anyone who values their home would leave trashy items in view.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posts: 418
Posted:
Lorna, in our area you never sign something specifically saying you are agreeing to part of the an Association. By virtue of being the owner of a property in a deed restricted community you are however. I think legally you are part of the Association whether you signed something specifically or not.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posts: 882
Posted:
The deed restrictions run with the land whether you were aware of them of not. And, in most (but not all) documents, the obligation to pay the assessments are also tied to the property, which would mean that whoever has title owes the assessments. If this is the case, then your only recourse is against anyone who was supposed to have represented YOUR interests in the transaction. The seller or his agent are probably not obligated to disclose anything to you you didn't ask (depends on specific state law). Normally a buyer would request a document stating that the assessments were paid to date, but since you were unaware of the association, you didn't ask for it. Whether this falls under "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) or not would depend on the specific laws in your state. You could try a small claims action agains the seller, since it costs little to file and since the debt was rightfully theirs, you may get a small claims judge to agree with you.
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LornaR (Ohio)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
I was looking for something legal to show the home buyers that they are still bound by the restrictions and must pay their HOA dues. What will most likely happen is they will not pay and a lien will be filed.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Lorna, does your association have a Declaration of CC&Rs? If so, the "something legal" for which you are searching is in them. Any defined unit within its defined boundaries must comply with the CC&Rs. And whether or not an assessment can be charged is there also. Without this you have no basis to require payments nor to file a lien.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posts: 314
Posted:
Roger is correct. I wondered from the beginning if this was actually a voluntary HOA. Sure sounds like it when Lorna said 10 people were never informed. Sounds like the HOA is just huffing and puffing if there is no CC&Rs with mandatory assessments. Harold
KentS (Maryland)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
In some states you can back out of a realestate deal if, after looking over the CCR documents and budget, you decide that you want out. Depends on state laws.
JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412
Posts: 412
Posted:
Lorna,
What state are you in? In Georgia, if you are a POA, any unpaid assessments from the prior owner transfer to the new owner. This is not the case for an HOA in Georgia.
It is up to the buyer to be informed. The excuse of "I didn't know" is very poor. It also sounds like someone is dropping the ball to allow so much in unpaid assessments to fall through the cracks.
What state are you in? In Georgia, if you are a POA, any unpaid assessments from the prior owner transfer to the new owner. This is not the case for an HOA in Georgia.
It is up to the buyer to be informed. The excuse of "I didn't know" is very poor. It also sounds like someone is dropping the ball to allow so much in unpaid assessments to fall through the cracks.
JulieS (Georgia)
Posts: 412
Posts: 412
Posted:
Search the county records, on-line if possible, for any CC&R's, by-laws, and articles of incorporation that may be filed. Also, check the state website to see if the HOA is registered as a corporation. This may be a good start for something legal.
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