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AnitaC5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 16
Posted:
The secretary of our board has her home under contract and has not notified the board or given any sort of notice. We have not seen her in well over a week, yet her husband makes about 3 or 4 trips here every day. Recently the president had to have a lawyer draw up papers stating he shall have NO contact with her, so we DO NOT expect him to fill us in on anything. The president and I are worried one morning there will be a box on the doorstep with a “BYE!” sign. If there even is a “box”.

Doesn’t she have some sort of obligation to at least fill us in on things? She refused to give the president the password of the online checking account in the past “it will mess up my accounting” All HOA payments, bills and statements have been going to her. We hate to go over to the bank and take her off the account, but who knows if she is even doing her duties.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
why does the secretary have access to funds ?

that would be the treasurer's job !

either:

the sec. is doing the job - no problemo

or

the sec. is not doing the job - the BOD should select another director to be the sec. - no problem

WHEN the sec. is no longer a member, assuming your docs require a director to be a member, the BOD may appoint someone to fill the vacancy

There is no issue other than the ENTIRE BOD is incompetent.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Ignore their obligation to you. Doesn't the Board have an obligation to ensure the safety of the files?

I would suggest other Board members contact the Secretary and make arrangements to pick up any and all Association files. If need be, simply knock on the door.

Since there appears to be discord between your President and this individual, the President should not be involved in the process at all.

It's possible that the individual is still willing to serve out their commitment. However, until someone actually contacts them, you won't know.

In the future, you may want to consider ways to prevent loss of files. Perhaps by digitizing past files and give every board member a copy. Perhaps by digitizing files and keep them on the Associations website (the added benefit with this is that members can now have easy access). Perhaps by renting a storage locker. Perhaps by building a storage shed on the common area for this purpose. etc.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
John,

I think the OP means that the Secretary picked up the mail and, apparently, didn't disperse it to the Officers who needed it.

Seems like there have been a few issues that should have been addressed way before the issue of the Secretary selling their property.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnitaC5 on 04/06/2015 3:16 PM
All HOA payments, bills and statements have been going to her. We hate to go over to the bank and take her off the account, but who knows if she is even doing her duties.


Why would you hold off going to the bank and getting control of your HOA accounts now?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnitaC5 on 04/06/2015 3:16 PM
The secretary of our board has her home under contract and has not notified the board or given any sort of notice. We have not seen her in well over a week, yet her husband makes about 3 or 4 trips here every day. Recently the president had to have a lawyer draw up papers stating he shall have NO contact with her, so we DO NOT expect him to fill us in on anything. The president and I are worried one morning there will be a box on the doorstep with a “BYE!” sign. If there even is a “box”.

Doesn’t she have some sort of obligation to at least fill us in on things? She refused to give the president the password of the online checking account in the past “it will mess up my accounting” All HOA payments, bills and statements have been going to her. We hate to go over to the bank and take her off the account, but who knows if she is even doing her duties.

I do not think you understand the potential legal hot water you are in.

When you accepted a seat on the board you and the other directors became personally liable to the association and its members for the safekeeping of its funds and records. It appears that you and your fellow board members breached that fiduciary duty by negligently entrusting all funds and records to the secretary who, in turn, appears to have deprived the association of its funds by exercising personal and exclusive control over them.

You knew, or reasonably should have known that the secretary had taken exclusive personal control of the funds when she refused to provide the online password to the president. Your secretary has deprived the lawful owner of the funds access to its own bank account. To me, that's theft. If she has an explanation for her actions the judge will be happy to hear it before sending her off to jail.

But what about you and the other board members? You seem to be all too willing to allow the secretary walk off with everything and the only explanation you can offer for neglecting this problem is that you do not want to hurt her feelings! You people are not victims; you are willing accomplices and I doubt that either the jurors or the judge will worry about hurting your feelings when the court rules against you.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
We had a local HOA who found out their president had sold his house and moved, when a homeowner out walking his dog found the Association records sitting out for the trash. Another hour and they would have been gone forever.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
How odd. Call a special BoD meeting (48 hr notice in Florida, your state laws and bylaws may vary), relieve her of her Secretary position and demand she return all passwords, keys, records, etc. Talk to that lawyer and have him draw up a court order that compels her to comply in the event she refuses. I try to not be too paranoid, but if she has sole posession of the online bank account password, I would also get a lawyer to draw up a Restraining Order for the bank so that they won't honor any checks or withdrawals she tries to make. The board should act, with all due haste. Maybe she's not looking to rob you blind. But maybe she is, and her conduct sounds to me exactly like that of someone who had a plan to do just that.

Sounds like the board is dragging their feet when time is of the essence, and that can't be good for anybody.
AnitaC5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thanks everyone.

Well, she is the Secretary/Treasurer, that’s why the mail goes to her and she has access to accounts and online banking.

Out of our 6 units, 2 are currently rentals (It has been up to half) it is kind of hard to have people volunteer to serve on the board when their unit is owned only as an investment. Hopefully the person moving in will consider serving. We do know she will reside here. We met her when she put in the offer or else we would have had no idea they were moving out.

I do not think she has done anything dubious (well except for not providing passwords after the account was set up) however I am concerned, at this point, she may not fulfill her duties. We will call the emergency meeting and ask for files and passwords and get her off of the accounts immediately.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnitaC5 on 04/07/2015 4:18 AM
Well, she is the Secretary/Treasurer, that’s why the mail goes to her and she has access to accounts and online banking.


Would never have a Sec/Treas. If only 3 seats: Prez, Sec, Treas.

Even if it didn't happen in your case, setting yourself up for potential fraud & deception. First rule: never make it easy for anyone to be tempted.

Would find the same flaws if someone was the Treas/Bookkeeper/Checksigner. Inadequate separation of responsibility - Leaving the HOA exposed.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
from the OP:

She refused to give the president the password of the online checking account in the past “it will mess up my accounting” All HOA payments, bills and statements have been going to her. We hate to go over to the bank and take her off the account, but who knows if she is even doing her duties.


We know the ENTIRE BOD is in a state of: nonfeasance.

That would NOT be covered under any D&O insurance.

The entire BOD, IMO, is now personally liable for any resulting damages (albeit uncollectable).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/07/2015 5:50 AM
Posted By AnitaC5 on 04/07/2015 4:18 AM
Well, she is the Secretary/Treasurer, that’s why the mail goes to her and she has access to accounts and online banking.


Would never have a Sec/Treas. If only 3 seats: Prez, Sec, Treas.

Even if it didn't happen in your case, setting yourself up for potential fraud & deception. First rule: never make it easy for anyone to be tempted.

Would find the same flaws if someone was the Treas/Bookkeeper/Checksigner. Inadequate separation of responsibility - Leaving the HOA exposed.

NP,

Although I agree with you, sometimes the Statutes or Governing documents insist on 4 officers and that only the Sec/Treasurer may be combined.

Additionally, in Anita's development, with only 6 units - the volunteer pool is extremely low and it's likely those who want to serve have all probably done the Secretary/Treasurer thing and just don't want to do it again.

Personally, I would have called for the individuals removal from that office once they refused to share the password to the bank accounts.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/07/2015 9:00 AM
Posted By NpS on 04/07/2015 5:50 AM
Posted By AnitaC5 on 04/07/2015 4:18 AM
Well, she is the Secretary/Treasurer, that’s why the mail goes to her and she has access to accounts and online banking.


Would never have a Sec/Treas. If only 3 seats: Prez, Sec, Treas.

Even if it didn't happen in your case, setting yourself up for potential fraud & deception. First rule: never make it easy for anyone to be tempted.

Would find the same flaws if someone was the Treas/Bookkeeper/Checksigner. Inadequate separation of responsibility - Leaving the HOA exposed.


NP,

Although I agree with you, sometimes the Statutes or Governing documents insist on 4 officers and that only the Sec/Treasurer may be combined.

Additionally, in Anita's development, with only 6 units - the volunteer pool is extremely low and it's likely those who want to serve have all probably done the Secretary/Treasurer thing and just don't want to do it again.

Personally, I would have called for the individuals removal from that office once they refused to share the password to the bank accounts.


IMO, statute or governing docs that require the merger of Sec/Treas can be ignored or changed. In OP's case, assuming a super-majority of 2/3 is required, it would only take 4 HOs to make the change.

A key purpose of all these protections in statute and organizing docs is to reduce the risk of fraudulent acts. Yet, the Sec/Treas merger promotes that risk.

If my HOA had such a provision and I couldn't get a change passed by the HOs, I would get 2 letters, one from our CPA and one from our Insurance company, stating that the combined Sec/Treas position exposes us to excessive risk of fraud/deception. Those letters in hand, I would feel comfortable disregarding the provision in the docs/statute.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/07/2015 12:20 PM

A key purpose of all these protections in statute and organizing docs is to reduce the risk of fraudulent acts. Yet, the Sec/Treas merger promotes that risk.

If my HOA had such a provision and I couldn't get a change passed by the HOs, I would get 2 letters, one from our CPA and one from our Insurance company, stating that the combined Sec/Treas position exposes us to excessive risk of fraud/deception. Those letters in hand, I would feel comfortable disregarding the provision in the docs/statute.

Why does a combined sec/treas increase risk where a sec/vp (for example) does not? The sec should be keeping a entirely different type of record than the treasuer. The risk always lies entirely with the treasurer, and is independent of any other offices they may hold
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 04/07/2015 12:28 PM
Posted By NpS on 04/07/2015 12:20 PM

A key purpose of all these protections in statute and organizing docs is to reduce the risk of fraudulent acts. Yet, the Sec/Treas merger promotes that risk.

If my HOA had such a provision and I couldn't get a change passed by the HOs, I would get 2 letters, one from our CPA and one from our Insurance company, stating that the combined Sec/Treas position exposes us to excessive risk of fraud/deception. Those letters in hand, I would feel comfortable disregarding the provision in the docs/statute.


Why does a combined sec/treas increase risk where a sec/vp (for example) does not? The sec should be keeping a entirely different type of record than the treasuer. The risk always lies entirely with the treasurer, and is independent of any other offices they may hold


VP has no independent function. So adding the VP role to Sec role doesn't really do much.

If you are concerned about fraud detection, the first thing you should be looking for is separation of responsibility. without it you are an easy target. In the OP's example, the same person receives the mail, collects payments, signs checks, and controls the bank account. Scary to me.

The Board can rely on the Treas report. The Board can also rely on the Sec report (minutes, etc). When these 2 responsibilities are merged, Way too much reliance by the Board on a single person. Just my opinion tho.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Your view has merit, but at the same time Sec-tres is the most common combination out there.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 04/07/2015 2:55 PM
Your view has merit, but at the same time Sec-tres is the most common combination out there.


We take it one step further. Our Treas cannot sign checks. Has to be 2 other board members doing the signing. We don't think that the person who approves the expenditure should be able to sign.

Probably not needed with the board we have - but always have to consider what the next board might do.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 04/07/2015 12:20 PM

IMO, statute or governing docs that require the merger of Sec/Treas can be ignored or changed. In OP's case, assuming a super-majority of 2/3 is required, it would only take 4 HOs to make the change.

It's not that statute/governing docs (and actually I think it's more of a case of the Governing docs having that provision) require it. It's that they require 4 officers and simply allow the Treasurer/Secretary to be held by the same person and/or prohibit the Pres an VP from holding dual offices.

I agree that it's silly. However, I also don't think it's a good idea for the President and Secretary to be held by the same person. Since the VP would assume the duties of the President when the Pres is unavailable, I suspect that that is the reason VP/Sec doesn't exist.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/07/2015 4:44 PM
I agree that it's silly.

We're on the same page there.

Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/07/2015 4:44 PM
However, I also don't think it's a good idea for the President and Secretary to be held by the same person. Since the VP would assume the duties of the President when the Pres is unavailable, I suspect that that is the reason VP/Sec doesn't exist.

Just my opinion, but the greatest vulnerability rests in the Treas position. If something comes up with the Prez position, the Board can always reshuffle the deck to address the changed circumstance.

If my only choice was VP/Sec or Treas/Sec, I'd go with VP/Sec every time.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I am VP and Treasurer.

CharlesB20 (Colorado)
Posts: 15
Posted:
A homeowner association is a business entity, a corporation--- not a church committee or a neighborhood welcome wagon. The directors clearly have lost sight of their fiduciary duty to the membership of ensuring that the association's records are safely maintained, and that the financial aspects of the corporation are well cared for. The board must take swift and decisive steps to recover control of the association's records and funds, and to put themselves in good stead.

You need a paper trail to address the situation with dispatch, thusly:

(1) The executive board should have a special meeting. Follow your bylaws to ensure that appropriate notice of the special meeting is communicated to all directors. Special meetings of the board are intended to address ONE MATTER ONLY, not to handle regular board business. In this case, the business at hand may be described as "administrative action."

(2) At this particular special meeting, the board will appoint an acting recording secretary to take minutes for this special meeting.

(3) Thereafter, the board will move to immediately strip the incumbent Secretary of office and all responsibilities attaching thereto. (Check your bylaws: in all likelihood, the board is granted the authority to remove an officer from office. This does NOT mean that the director is removed from the board-- only that he or she is removed from office.) When the vote has been taken and, assuming the measure has an affirmative vote by majority of the board, the President will ask the former Secretary for the immediate return of all association records and materials. Set a very specific deadline (

(4) Additionally, the board will appoint one of the other directors as Secretary.

(5) Moreover, if there is no Treasurer, the board will appoint one of its number to the office of Treasurer. (It is the Treasurer's responsibility-- not the Secretary's-- to look after the financial business of the association, unless the offices of Secretary and Treasurer are combined. Again, check your bylaws!) The board will charge the new Treasurer with proceeding directly to the bank to remove the former Secretary's name from the signature cards that currently are on file at the bank, and to execute new signature cards. (The acting recording secretary will ensure that this action is recorded in the minutes.) The board also may choose to name an additional person or persons as signer/s on the bank accounts. If so, the acting recording secretary will include this action in the minutes.

(6) Adjourn the special meeting. One of the directors will offer a motion to adjourn, another will second the motion. (On a duly seconded motion to adjourn, there is NO DISCUSSION about adjourning. The board must vote right away.) The acting recording secretary will immediately prepare the draft minutes so that they may be given to the new Treasurer to take with him/her to the bank in order to execute new signature cards. This step (that is, taking care of new signature cards) must be done right away-- without delay, within not less than a few minutes after the special board meeting adjourns-- so that the board demonstrates that it is taking decisive action to re-establish control of the affairs of the association's business.

FINALLY, after all is said and done, the executive board should seek education concerning their fiduciary duties and how they must go about properly fulfilling those duties as directors. The board members must never lose sight of the fact that the executive board is the functioning governing body of a business entity, the corporation that is the homeowners association.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
PERECTLY STATED

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
I agree with the above, with the addition that because it is a six unit HOA, that the board, owners, HOA and Directors are all probably one in the same, i.e.: all owners are board members

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