Power Source for Landscape Lighting

DaveA3 (Washington)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I'm currently researching options for installing landscape lighting in our neighborhood on behalf of my HOA. The biggest
challenge is sourcing the power. All the bids I've gotten assume that the power for the lights will come from one or more transformers attached to individual houses on the street. The cost of the power is relatively negligible ($5-$10 per month for ~20 LED lights) but some residents are concerned about how to work out an arrangement with reimbursing the homeowners supplying the power (or a resident not cooperating and refusing to power the lights at some point). I've looked into getting a separate electrical source but that's costly and comes with its own set of problems.

I'm just curious if anyone lives in an HOA with community landscape lighting that's powered by individual homes. If so, how did you agree on reimbursing the homes for the lighting? Any problems/challenges with such an arrangement?

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Solar?

The bigger issue is when the property is sold and the new owner does not agree with this setup. No matter what the cost of the electricity, people want homes that are unencumbered.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

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Does your Association pay utilities for the street lights?
If you do, why not run the units from those.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

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We have 2 sources of power for exterior lighting.

Metered. 2 houses have an additional meter attached to the outside of the house (in addition to the meter for the house). The HOA pays the electric cost for the 2 meters. Not that expensive to put a couple of meters in. Right to attach the meters runs with the land so that new buyer cannot object.

Unmetered. We also have lighting that is not metered and cannot be turned off or on. Lights are turned off and on by light sensors. I believe that these lights are direct wired into a transformer that services a group of houses. Not sure how it's done, but we are billed separately for this usage.

In both cases, billing is directly to HOA so it doesn't have to rely on an individual HO.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

You'll have to run out of HO's panel to a little sub panel which you can then individually monitor (meter) with a E-mon D-mon
http://www.emon.com

DaveA3 (Washington)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 04/05/2015 8:11 PM
We have 2 sources of power for exterior lighting.

Metered. 2 houses have an additional meter attached to the outside of the house (in addition to the meter for the house). The HOA pays the electric cost for the 2 meters. Not that expensive to put a couple of meters in. Right to attach the meters runs with the land so that new buyer cannot object.

Unmetered. We also have lighting that is not metered and cannot be turned off or on. Lights are turned off and on by light sensors. I believe that these lights are direct wired into a transformer that services a group of houses. Not sure how it's done, but we are billed separately for this usage.

In both cases, billing is directly to HOA so it doesn't have to rely on an individual HO.

Thanks - this is something I hadn't considered before. So the meters were provided by the local utility company I'm assuming? Did you have to amend your CC&Rs to give the HOA the right to attach the meters?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

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Does your HOA own any property? The panel and service drop has to go to the owners property.

DaveA3 (Washington)
Posts: 6

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We have a common area tract but it isn't addressed.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

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That's probably the only place where the POCO will place a meter. The city can probably generate an address.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

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Quote:

Posted By DaveA3 on 04/05/2015 5:56 PM

I'm currently researching options for installing landscape lighting in our neighborhood on behalf of my HOA.

I've looked into getting a separate electrical source but that's costly and comes with its own set of problems.

What will the expected lifetime of this project? 25 years? 50? Forever?

What is it about this project that makes it worthwhile to install lighting but not worth the cost of doing it right from the outset?

All I see is one problem after another with trying to power the HOA's lighting with a homeowner's utilities. Multiply the problems by the number of homes involved. You will need the current owner to grant an easement for the HOA to come onto his property and some sort of bullet-proof agreement for reimbursing the homeowners that will survive future sales of those homes. No matter how mellow everyone is today, a few decades from now after all current members have moved out and new ones have come in that situation may no longer exist.

If the lighting project is worth doing then do it right and forget about the mickey mouse power schemes.

DaveA3 (Washington)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 04/06/2015 11:09 AM

Posted By DaveA3 on 04/05/2015 5:56 PM

I'm currently researching options for installing landscape lighting in our neighborhood on behalf of my HOA.

I've looked into getting a separate electrical source but that's costly and comes with its own set of problems.

What will the expected lifetime of this project? 25 years? 50? Forever?

What is it about this project that makes it worthwhile to install lighting but not worth the cost of doing it right from the outset?

All I see is one problem after another with trying to power the HOA's lighting with a homeowner's utilities. Multiply the problems by the number of homes involved. You will need the current owner to grant an easement for the HOA to come onto his property and some sort of bullet-proof agreement for reimbursing the homeowners that will survive future sales of those homes. No matter how mellow everyone is today, a few decades from now after all current members have moved out and new ones have come in that situation may no longer exist.

If the lighting project is worth doing then do it right and forget about the mickey mouse power schemes.

Adding a separate electrical service adds about 60% minimum to the cost of the lighting installation itself. I've consulted with the city utility on this issue and they advised that there is only one utility vault in the neighborhood that can provide the additional power...and that vault only has one additional bay available. The developer who built all of our homes and created the HOA is in the process of getting permits to build an additional home and would presumably want to tap that utility vault to power his new project. In order to power both the service to the lights and the new home would require a new utility vault with added capacity. Or we end up in a situation fighting with the developer over who has the right to tap into that extra capacity on the existing vault. I have no idea what the cost of a new utility vault would be or how receptive the developer would be to swapping it out during construction. But I'm guessing if we have to bear even a share of that cost, it's probably easily in the thousands.

On top of that, the city utility informed us that the developer failed to install two of the existing utility vaults in the neighborhood correctly (apparently, the vaults were installed before the road was originally paved). Instead of installing the concrete lids to these vaults flush with our private drive, they actually sit 6 inches off the ground. The vaults sit in landscaped areas surrounded by soft curbing and have been moved by delivery trucks multiple times. The city utility engineer said the utility company will refuse to energize the additional bay to power the separate service unless those vaults are "fixed" in whatever way they feel is appropriate. That's yet another layer of costs and headaches for this project.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveA3 on 04/06/2015 11:38 AM

On top of that, the city utility informed us that the developer failed to install two of the existing utility vaults in the neighborhood correctly (apparently, the vaults were installed before the road was originally paved). Instead of installing the concrete lids to these vaults flush with our private drive, they actually sit 6 inches off the ground. The vaults sit in landscaped areas surrounded by soft curbing and have been moved by delivery trucks multiple times. The city utility engineer said the utility company will refuse to energize the additional bay to power the separate service unless those vaults are "fixed" in whatever way they feel is appropriate. That's yet another layer of costs and headaches for this project.

That may be a construction defect where the GC and his subs are liable for 10 years. If the GC is liable, he may try to loot the coffers of the HOA if he can, but here again he would be liable for damages.

DaveA3 (Washington)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 04/06/2015 12:01 PM

That may be a construction defect where the GC and his subs are liable for 10 years. If the GC is liable, he may try to loot the coffers of the HOA if he can, but here again he would be liable for damages.

Is that state law?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveA3 on 04/06/2015 12:10 PM

Posted By MarkM31 on 04/06/2015 12:01 PM

That may be a construction defect where the GC and his subs are liable for 10 years. If the GC is liable, he may try to loot the coffers of the HOA if he can, but here again he would be liable for damages.

Is that state law?

1) Clearly is, but then the question becomes who is damaged. You and your fellow HO's isn't because your already hooked up. So the damaged party would be the developer.

2) Limiting the liability to the GC without looting the Associations funds gets into lawyer work