California HOA Paid Staff Salaries

Does anyone know if the HOA is legaly required to disclose information on the salaries paid to HOA staff (like Executive Director, Managers, wait staff at our restaurant etc.) when requested by an HOA Member/Owner in California? If so, what would the specific law be that makes it a legal requirement. Thanks so much in advance for your help.

Thanks much, Richard!!

No, its not.

Per davis-stirling records page:

Upon request, associations must provide compensation information for all employees, including the general manager (if an employee of the association), in the format described below:

Except as provided by the attorney-client privilege, the association may not withhold or redact information concerning the compensation paid to employees, vendors, or contractors. Compensation information for individual employees shall be set forth by job classification or title, not by the employee's name, social security number, or other personal information. (Civ. Code §5215(b).)

Management Company Employees. The right to salary information applies to employees of the association not to employees of the association's management company.

Note: Independent contractors are not employees. For independent contractor information, you should request to see their contract.

Here is a link to the statute itself:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§i5215.

Mark

I am going to disagree. There are a large number of HOA's in the Palm Springs area of California that have country clubs.

Bingo.

But my point isn't so much about liability, but about competence of management. It's pretty beyond reasonable to expect a HOA to manage a restaurant, and for a restaurant manager to be expected to be put under the microscope of a HOA Board. Things beyond general maintenance and accounting should be done by separate companies well versed in those businesses

Seems so


Earlier you implied that you don't know the salaries for the restaurant staff. So if that is a fact, how can you say that the problem is too high of salaries? It could also be poor sales, poor management, a poor location, a disgusting building or meddling by the HOA.

And this is a problem? Can I contact your company and enquire your salary? I say NONE Ya Business on individual paychecks. It is rude and not necessary. Do not like the overall expense, then shop for a new contractor to your liking and submit for consideration. Problem solved.

It sounds like a monster development, if there are 220 employees, including restaurant staff.

Seems pretty clear cut

http://www.suncity-lincolnhills.org

According to their financials, F&B expenses were about 30% of F&B revenue. Maybe Dennis can explain this 60% discrepancy as he related the story to us

They are all staff of the HOA. It is a large senior community with about 6800 homes.

I see what you're saying. You have F&B revenue of $3.2M, and expenses of <$1.0M> and <$2.2M>. But this isn't a company, where you want to stick the profits into your pockets. They probably need to "make no profit". There is a lot none of us know, it'd be nice if an accountant chirped in.

But as of right now, I'm leaning towards you making huge assumptions with only partial knowledge.

John,

In regard to how I would rate the restaurant. The concensus is it offerers very small prtions, have an extremently limited menu selection, and is overpriced. This is all done to pay the excessive salaries of management staff in particular. Wait staff services are excellent. This restaurant would go out of business in a month if it was located anywhere else.

Mark, In regard to your interest in hearing from an accountant. I would offer that it is not an accounting problem, rather a business management problem. Our restaurant operates in the red year after year, and it is directly attibuted to the excessive salary costs that are well beyong industry standards. You too must be a resident of Sun City Lincoln Hills I suspect.

It is not an accounting question/issue, Mark. I have mentioned that based on our financial statements, our salarly cost run from 55-60 percent of revenues. The industry standard for full service restaurants is about 30-35 percent of revenues. As such, we have significant excessive labor costs do to poor management of our food and beverage business line. It is clearly not an accounting issue, rather a business management issue.

Hi Dennis
I question whether you should be using "restaurants" as your industry comparison. "golf and country clubs" would probably provide you with a better comparison.

Also, much depends on whether certain hours of operation are mandatory and if minimum use fees are charged.

In other words, you are dealing with a very specialized type of food service - While industry standards may be a good starting point, you should probably try to narrow things down a bit.

Mark, The numbers show up in the financials under account codes, and salaies is one of them and is exclusive to the F&B business line.

Tim, My interest is to bring this information to the surface, and hopeful work to reduce our salary costs for the F&B business line. I would then like to see the saving go into better quality food, a larger menu selection, and lower menu prices.

No Mark, We are a seniors community with the average age of about 70 and I want to ensure the residents/owners are getting better value for the money spent, rather than spending too much on salaries that goes to others.

Melissa, Please read my previous posts. Our food and beverage costs are about 32 percent of revenue...consistent with industry standards. Salaries are significantly above industry standards, by as much as 30 percentage points. Our HOA is not a welfare organization, and it is not the HOA's responsibility to pay excessive labor costs to keep people employed. It is the duty of the HOA to provide excellent good and services to the members in a cost effective manner. That is, give them great value for their money. After all, it is their money.

Melissa, Your statement : "So to say your HOA is paying your workers too much money...." Is not what I am saying. I am saying very simply that our overall salary costs are excessively high. I have no idea what we pay staff. The problem could be that there are way have way to many people on staff for the services needed. It could be we are over paying management. I am seeking salary information to better define the problem. You may want to revisit my previous posts.

Melissa, You obviously do not know the restaurant business. You may want to do some research before posting again. Insofar as our F&B business line is concerned, it historically operates in the red, and that is just when costs for food/beverages and slaries are compared to revenues. It does not pay any space fee(rent), untility cost, insurance cost (except for staff where applicable), equipment cost, furnishing cost, or capital improvement costs (rennovations).

Can I get a job there? Sounds like a good place to work... Low overhead, good pay, and insurance...

Melissa, To answer your question....No.

Richards questions caught my interest. I went Internet surfing. Typical restaurant (not fast food) costs are 1/3 for food, 1/3 for employees, 1/3 for overhead (rent, utilities, etc.), reserves, advertising, etc. with a typical profit margin about 6-8% and upwards of 20% for a fast food, low employee overhead operation.