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PeggyW3 (Michigan)
Posts: 73
Posted:
We have a small group of homeowners (12) and we try to follow as closely as we can the Road Agreement and Covenants filed with our deeds in 1987. This agreement spells out how to have a meeting, designating a Chairperson, Secretary and how to establish and collect road maintenance fees. We have added proxies (to establish quorums), waivers to the certified mail requirement for notification of a meeting, and a couple other things to help our group function in the current century....all changes agreed to with a majority.

We had our annual meeting and this homeowner comes in and says he has talked to his lawyer and his lawyer says he can sue our designated Treasurer for writing in the minutes that he owes 2012 maintenance fees of $300, when he feels, back in the meeting of 2012, there was not a quorum as no where in this old agreement does it say we can have proxies, nor waivers either. So the annual maintenance fee did not apply to him...........everyone else paid.

He behaves like a bully, is abusive, uses foul language, threatens various people and we don't know what we can do about it. Basically, if we don't do it his way, his lawyer says he can sue.

My questions are: Remember we reside in Michigan which has no HOA statues....or so I learned last year, maybe that has changed?
1. What are our options in dealing with this difficult person?
2. If he sues just one of us, what do we do as we have held an office representing the entire group and acted accordingly?
3. Our Agreement is old and difficult to totally adhere to for a variety of reasons, but we do our best to comply to the basic principles and spirit of the agreement. We have been told we cannot amend it without all 12 members agreeing to do so, is that true?
4.Can we dissolve this Agreement (at what cost?) and establish a new Agreement with a majority minus 1 or 2 homeowners voting to do so?
5.Any suggestions you might offer would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

Peg
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
He behaves like a bully, is abusive, uses foul language, threatens various people ...


I will answer point #1:

Call law enforcement, and press charges if required.

Petition the courts for an 'order of protection'.

Place the matter in the corporate attorney's hands.

Beat the offender into submission.

Move.

exactly in the above order



I will remind you:

We have been told we cannot amend it without all 12 members agreeing to do so, is that true?


what does the agreement, itself, say regarding amendment ?

if nothing, imo, it may NOT be amended/changed w/o 100% accord

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I simply state: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors... I will wait on your lawsuit...

Simply put... People who threaten legal and/or attorney actions is trying make you play their game. Don't be sucked in. They want to sue, let them. I'd just have the HOA file a counter-suit for the legal costs or expenses if they do sue.

Sometimes lawsuit prevention is more expensive and damaging than just going on and getting sued... Your HOA should be carrying insurance for this anyways...

Former HOA President
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Some questions Peg:

What is your HOA's annual income?

Do you have Directors and Officers (D&O) insurance?

Prior to the blowup, was Bullyman paying into the HOA?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Peggy,

This problem has a fairly simple solution.

Mr. Jackass claims he has an attorney. Send him a letter by certified mail stating that since he is now represented by counsel that it is improper for your association to have any direct contact with him and that all further communications will be in writing between his attorney and the association. This will force him to either admit that he has no counsel or will force him to spend thousands in legal fees to evade a $300 road contribution.

Common law holds that those who use a road are legally responsible for its maintenance. Whether there is a quorum at a meeting, waivers, or proxies does not alter the fact that there is a legally enforceable obligation to pay for the road maintenance. My other suggestion would be to quit screwing around and file a lawsuit against Mr. Jackass for the $300 he owes from 2012 plus whatever he has not paid since then.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
D'OH
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
If your Association is incorporated (most are, but check to be sure) corporate laws would apply.
Corporate laws typically apply to procedures within a corporation.
What do they say about the use of proxies, etc.?

See:

MI NONPROFIT CORPORATION ACT
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
When a bully or Ahole makes demands doing it their way should never be an option. If so you just lost the war.

Being loud and ignorant is not a crime making threats is. If he did in fact make threats call the police and file a criminal complaint.

And who really cares what his lawyers says? Until you actually hear from the lawyer disregard his nonsense.

And yes if you can determine the lawyers identity funnel any correspondence through them in most cases that will run up his costs for the mouthpiece.

Or you can do what we did do a search for security companies and hire security for your next meeting.

We use three gentlemen no one under 6'3" and one guy runs 340 lbs.

For a few years we had a group of zipperheads all with big mouths and big talk. Now if anyone starts to get out of hand out they go.

Since we hired security our meetings are like senior knitting circles calm, quiet, productive and no drama.

Bullies only get their way if you let them push you around. Push back.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PeggyW3 on 04/01/2015 7:44 AM

My questions are: Remember we reside in Michigan which has no HOA statues....or so I learned last year, maybe that has changed?
1. What are our options in dealing with this difficult person?

One warning and then ejected from the meeting.
The way to do that is to recess the meeting. The owner of the property where the meeting is held, asks them to leave. If the individual refuses, the owner of the property calls the police and submits a trespassing complaint. Officer will have the individual leave on his own or with their assistance. Meeting reconvenes.

If the meeting is at a school, etc. The trespassing complaint won't work. However, the police can still be called to have them removed.

For future meetings, hire an off-duty police officer if needed.

Quote:
Posted By PeggyW3 on 04/01/2015 7:44 AM

2. If he sues just one of us, what do we do as we have held an office representing the entire group and acted accordingly?

If only threatened to sue - ignore it (but gather documentation)
If you have actually been served, Directors and Officers would be covered under the D&O insurance policy (unless you knowingly violated State statutes or governing documents). Additionally, the Association should indemnify you. The Board should contact the Associations attorney and let them handle it.

Quote:
Posted By PeggyW3 on 04/01/2015 7:44 AM

3. Our Agreement is old and difficult to totally adhere to for a variety of reasons, but we do our best to comply to the basic principles and spirit of the agreement. We have been told we cannot amend it without all 12 members agreeing to do so, is that true?

That answer will be within your document. If the document is silent on amendments, then it's likely you need 100% agreement.

Note: It may be difficult to adhere to, but many legal actions have been won or lost because of technicalities and the failure to actually adhere to the letter, as well as the spirit, of governing documents.

Quote:
Posted By PeggyW3 on 04/01/2015 7:44 AM

4.Can we dissolve this Agreement (at what cost?) and establish a new Agreement with a majority minus 1 or 2 homeowners voting to do so?

The answer to that would also be within your governing documents.

If it is silent, then you will need to seek a legal opinion from a local attorney versed in contract and property (as it's a private road agreement) law.

Posted By PeggyW3 on 04/01/2015 7:44 AM

5.Any suggestions you might offer would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

A lot of your questions are document specific. Without anyone seeing the actual document, any answers to those questions would be speculation. For those questions, you need to seek legal advice from a local attorney versed in contract and property law.

Hope this helps,

Tim
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I'll just add that people threaten to sue all of the time. It's cheap to make the threat. Far fewer people actually sue anybody because that step isn't cheap.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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