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JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Our governing documents state that trucks are not permitted to park on driveways (considered common area) overnight. Someone is stating that conflicts with something in Arizona law. Can anyone refer me to a statute on that? I have asked for a legal opinion months ago and the HOA has not complied with my request and in the meantime there are unsightly open bed trucks parked on the driveways on many properties. Many owners are displeased with the appearance and want clarity. Thanks so much.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
When were your restrictions written? Because it seems like it's very common for most families to own a pick-up truck nowadays. Commercial vehicle bans are a different story. I'd guess you'd have trouble enforcing that in court, might be looked at as unreasonable.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Joanne,

Simply saying trucks would be vague and open for interpretation. Could you provide the actual language so we can see the context?

Whenever someone tells me something is in conflict with this or that, I place the burden of proof on them and ask them to show me.

Perhaps they were referring to AZ 33-1809. Parking;

From what I read of the statute (and I didn't read the whole thing) you may want to wait for that legal opinion. The difference being that the driveway, in your case, is common area and not part of the property. However, if it's exclusive use common area, it might be considered the same as being part of the property.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Along with Tim's mention that the driveways might be exclusive use common areas, which is different than common areas, It's also possible that there are different laws in different cities/municipalities. You might try googling: Truck parking in driveways in Your City/Town, AZ.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Tim,

The reference only applies to public safety employees.

33-1809. Parking; public service and public safety emergency vehicles


the 'sticky words' are: ...as a condition of the person's employment and either of the following applies:

(goes on to describe various civil servant public safety personnel)
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/08/2015 2:56 PM
Tim,

The reference only applies to public safety employees.

John,

That's all I could find with a quick look. It also applies to utility companies and other public service corporations. Joanne never said what type of truck it was, so I didn't know if it would fit that statute or not.

As I said, if someone tells me something is violation of a statute, I ask them to provide the statute rather then trying to find it myself.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
I stand corrected:

also includes utility workers

full text:

33-1809. Parking; public service and public safety emergency vehicles; definition

A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit a resident from parking a motor vehicle on a street or driveway in the planned community if the vehicle is required to be available at designated periods at the person's residence as a condition of the person's employment and either of the following applies:

1. The resident is employed by a public service corporation that is regulated by the corporation commission, an entity regulated by the federal energy regulatory commission or a municipal utility and the public service corporation or municipal utility is required to prepare for emergency deployments of personnel and equipment for repair or maintenance of natural gas, electrical, telecommunications or water infrastructure, the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty thousand pounds or less and is owned or operated by the public service corporation or municipal utility and the vehicle bears an official emblem or other visible designation of the public service corporation or municipal utility.

2. The resident is employed by a public safety agency, including police or fire service for a federal, state, local or tribal agency or a private fire service provider or an ambulance service provider that is regulated pursuant to title 36, chapter 21.1, and the vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand pounds or less and bears an official emblem or other visible designation of that agency.

B. For the purposes of this section, "telecommunications" means the transmission of information of the user's choosing between or among points specified by the user without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received. Telecommunications does not include commercial mobile radio services.
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Thankful to all who replied.....the trucks I am referring to are regular pick-up style, open bed without advertising or any identification on them so that rules out government vehicle etc. Here is the wording in the CC&R's which are found to be vague and deficient in many other areas. I might also add that the HOA privately owns the streets and no overnight parking of any kind is allowed on them according to the documents:
"Article ll Use Restrictions, Section 8 Trucks, Boats, Cycles, Campers
Except for trucks, vans or trailers belonging to persons doing work in the Development during daylight hours (or at other times during emergencies) no trucks, buses, vans, trailers, boats, antique cars, campers and similar type vehicles or equipment shall be kept or parked in the streets or driveways (or any other place except as hereinafter stated) and any other such equipment or vehicles shall be kept or parked only in the garages or carports, or in such other area as the Board may specifically prescribe in writing by its rules and regulation. Except for antique cars, this section does not apply to "passenger automobiles, including station wagons."

This came up in another HOA I lived in and the Board determined anything with an "open Bed" regardless of brand was a truck.I apparently cannot force my HOA to get a legal opinion but I am tired of looking at these trucks if in fact they are not permitted to be here. This has nothing to do with "social status" but the look of our community. Any light on this would be appreciated or I will have to keep pushing for the legal opinion.
Thanks again.
Joanne
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoanneD1 on 03/08/2015 4:01 PM

the trucks I am referring to are regular pick-up style, open bed without advertising or any identification on them so that rules out government vehicle etc.

(Hopefully these images will show, as it's the first time I've tried to insert photos)

Are you referring to a regular pick-up truck (without cover, shell or camper)?



Or

Are you referring to a flat bed pick-up truck?



OR

What I would call a work truck?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joanne,

Good luck trying to enforce those restrictions about trucks and vans.

The problem is that "trucks" includes everything from the smallest import vehicles to over-the-road semis. In Arizona, nearly every household has at least one pick-up truck and most of those are licensed just as if they are passenger cars; that is, with non-commercial plates. Since the state recognizes pick-up trucks as being passenger automobiles, by issuing the same kind of license plate to both, you would have an uphill battle trying to argue that they may not park in your association.

Since this seems to be such an issue why not bypass the HOA and seek direct enforcement of the covenants? You seem to be sitting around waiting for others to act instead of using the tools you have to enforce the rules yourself. All you need to do is apply for an injunction at the superior court, prove your case with a preponderance of the evidence, and walk out with a court order in hand.
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Good job on loading the photos. The red/orange pick up is what we have scattered here. I don't know if any of the owners would challenge the HOA if they were told they could not be on the driveway. We have many renters and they do not have a vested interest in the appearance of the property when compared to a residing owner and lets not get into that issue. Our homes are small and when these trucks and another car are parked side by side, it really detracts from the appearance. My personal opinion of course but also other owners. So I am trying to understand about getting the injunction....thankfully, I have very little experience in the court system. I would much rather have the BOD do their fiduciary duty and carry out what is written in the documents than have a target on my back. By the way, every home here has a two car garage.

Thanks.
Joanne
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joanne, several years ago we had a poster DonnaS from FL (later TN) who went through this exact same thing. A few people insisted the Board enforce the "no trucks in the driveway" portion of the CC&R's against a few that had them, after protracted and expensive litigation, the courts ruled they were indeed passenger vehicles and allowed.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoanneD1 on 03/08/2015 8:35 PM
Good job on loading the photos. The red/orange pick up is what we have scattered here.

Those type of trucks are, anymore, considered (as Glen and Larry pointed out) to be a passenger vehicle.

The other issue is that those trucks may not even fit into the garage. Heck, I've been looking for a retirement home and have honestly found it difficult to find a garage, be it new construction or existing homes, that our passenger cars will fit in and have room to get to the steps leading into the home.
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Thanks again for the responses. I agree that the times are a changing' and not for the better.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Your only solution would be to amend the Covenants and Restrictions to read:

Unless otherwise permitted by law, only a vehicle classified by the U.S. D.O.T. as a 'passenger vehicle' may be parked in the driveway.

However,
that would also bar most 'mini vans' and SUVs as they, regardless of State registration, are actually light trucks.

? hard to believe ?

! check the door jamb stickers of a few vehicles !

(this is how the manufacturer's 'get over' the passenger vehicle safety requirements ~ there are very few recalls on light trucks ~ one CAN roll a light truck on dry level asphalt w/o actually hitting anything)
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Thanks John.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Food for thought:

A brand new shiny Metallic Canary Yellow Cadillac Escalade or Hum-Vee.

Actual DOT passenger vehicles.

Both as ugly as the mid-summer day is long.

IMO: the BOD should MYOB regarding vehicles w/o signage
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
JohnB,
I was going to say the same thing but knew I wouldn't have to (you'd say it sooner or later).
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I would choose to live in an HOA with reasonable governing docs and rules and regs so that I don't have to look at vehicles as described above or have one purple painted house and one pea green painted house on each side of me. Nuf said.
Thanks again.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 03/08/2015 12:55 PM
When were your restrictions written? Because it seems like it's very common for most families to own a pick-up truck nowadays. Commercial vehicle bans are a different story. I'd guess you'd have trouble enforcing that in court, might be looked at as unreasonable.

What year were your restriction written? Those vehicles are so common now, IMO even if you push the issue you probably won't win. You may push them to simply update the governing documents to permit the trucks and it may cost your HOA money to do that. You need to know how many people you would have on your side in order to be realistic with your expectations.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/210/521412700_48cacec3d6_z.jpg
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
{url}http://farm1.staticflickr.com/210/521412700_48cacec3d6_z.jpg{/url}
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
I give up
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Changing our documents is nearly impossible as it will take 100% and there is also language about the first mortgagee also being involved in the process. There are many issues in the docs that ned updating/changing but no one will be up for that. I am mostly concerned with enforcement as they are written and avoiding selective enforcement.
Most of the folks I know do not own pick up trucks. Our community is mostly made up of seniors and seasonal owners who have no need for such as vehicle. Thanks.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Do you know what year were your documents written and recorded?
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
October 15, 1979
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
That's what I thought. IMO that would make a difference should the matter end up in court. It would be expensive to find out.

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