HOA Board Member asked to resign from Facebook

Started by FredW5 • 47 replies • 4995 views

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FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

Hello, everyone.
I have been elected as a member to our HOA board.

I have also been a member of our community Facebook page which I created a while back, as an informative residents discussion group.

today I received an e-mail from one of the members, who was is also a board member. (Below)

Question:

Is this legal to ask for? All discussions on the Facebook page have been informative, and some point out residents own views on the community.

Nothing in our by-laws state that a board member cannot be on Facebook or any social media discussions regarding the community, etc.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.

Fred.
"
E- mail from a board member to a board member:
"
Since you are now a board member, I think that you need to
remove yourself from any affiliation with the Facebook pages.
Historically, those pages have been used as a forum to praise or criticize the work
that the HOA has done and, in my opinion, it is a conflict of
interest for you to remain active on such a portal."

Thanks!
Steven

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/02/2015 9:48 AM
Hello, everyone.

Is this legal to ask for?

Nope. The police will be there soon

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Hi Fred

I do not disagree with Steven.

You have two voices, one as a homeowner and one as a board member. Is there a potential confusion? If you express your personal views, will other HOs think you are speaking for yourself or for the board? The answer is - there is no way to tell how people will interpret what voice you are using or have a right to use. It makes no difference what disclaimers you make - people will read into a situation what they choose to.

In my association, our policy is that we don't express a personal opinion when asked. Our standard response is: "I'll be glad to run your question by the board and get back to you."

Others may do it differently.

In your shoes, I would let the Facebook discussions continue without my personal participation. If I thought a comment should be made, I would let the board decide whether to respond, and post only what the board agreed to post.

Just my opinion tho.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Is it legal to ask - certainly - anyone can ask that you do this or that.
Are you required by law to do this or that - in your case, probably not.

Now, that said, it's best that the Board speaks with one voice. There can certainly be disagreements amongst the Board and even split decisions. However, once the decision is made, the Board should speak with one voice and the face and voice of the Board is typically the President.

If you are in the minority of a decision, your response to questions about that decision should be simply along the lines of "I didn't vote for it but that is what the Board has chosen to do" Or "that was a board decision, if you like, bring it up at the next board meeting"

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

In all the years we have had the Facebook page there has not been one negative comment or discussion from anyone regarding the HOA or a board. Only family and friends comments, emergency numbers, weather etc.
There is a community webpage but virtually never used or updated.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Fred

When one is on a BOD one has to accept that whatever they say, including personal opinions, is quite often interperted as what/how the BOD thinks, is consdering, is discussing, is going to do, etc. thus one has to think twice about what they publically say. They do not have the freedom of expression they once had.

I woull tell him that I am not going to resign from Facebook but I realize as a BOD Member that I have to be careful of what I say to prevent any possible conflict from arising.

Bottom line is I would not resign from Facebook but as I said, you will now have to be very careful concerning what you say.

Hope this helps.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Forgot the disclaimer - I am not an attorney and I do not work in the legal profession. Only offering advice and opinion based on what you have provided, personal experiences, my understanding of any research I may have done and, hopefully, some common sense.

If you desire a legal opinion (i.e. is this legal?) you should consult an attorney.

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

Just asking for an opinion. Our attorneys mentioned that it is against the Second Amendment to prevent anyone, board member, or not from participating in ANY social media discussions.

It would be contentious , if it were mentioned, or written in the HOA By-laws.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Fred,

As others have said, the issue is that since your now a member of the Board, you also represent the Board. Even if you are only expressing a personal opinion, members may think that you are expressing an opinion of the Board (because you are on it).

In order to prevent this potential confusion, it's important to either specify when you are not speaking for the Board or to simply refrain from commenting issues that are before the Board or have been decided by the Board.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2015 10:52 AM
In order to prevent this potential confusion, it's important to either specify when you are not speaking for the Board or to simply refrain from commenting issues that are before the Board or have been decided by the Board.

Even if you say you are not speaking on behalf of the board, your audience will hear it the way they want to hear it. Safest to avoid the potential confusion.

If as you say, the page is only used for social comments, then it's a non-issue. If used for more, avoid the potential confusion.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265

Posted:

What if the board has appointed a communications person who posts to a facebook page for them? Our board has done this, and that board appointed communications person actually berates homeowners on facebook for disagreeing with the board in any way, or simply questioning the actions of the board. I mean attacks the homeowners on behalf of the board. When confronted about this she actually emailed us and told us it was only "business".

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So do you wish to serve as a member of this board with the other members or be seen as an outsider ?

Another board member has expressed their concern this page has been used to criticize the actions ofcthecboard you now serve on.

They have suggested you cease any participation on this page. Your response this is merely a social page. Clearly both views cannot be true.

To demand some document requires you to do so or denying any negative role by those on this page seems to minimalise the concerns of your fellow board member. Is that the route you wish to go?

You can't tell me what to do.

Sets a poor tone moving forward. My guess might also affect how at least one board member views you. Perhaps more.

All over a social Facebook page seems not to be worth the argument.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

As Tim says sure, "Steven" can ask you to drop your affiliation with the Facebook page. He is incorrect, though to call your activity on Facebook a "conflict of interest."

You might get a better start and be more effective with your fellow directors if you DO drop your affiliation. Steven says it's been used to criticize the HOA & Board and you say it does not.

If you strongly feel you must continue, I'd do as suggested by JohnC: be very careful to NOT post your opinions about ANY HOA matters. As others have pointed out, you as a director on the board should all speak with one voice. Whether approached in person or asked on Facebook.

On balance, and this is the basic question all directors in HOAs should ask themselves: Does my activity on Facebook, given that I'm a director, benefit my HOA as a whole? Or might my Facebook participation cause problems for my board or in my community?

I personally see that the second question is a possibility and would halt my affiliation

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566

Posted:

Fred,
IMO it would have been fine for Steven to mention his concerns about your involvement in the Facebook page for your community. However, I feel telling you he thinks you should remove yourself entirely from any affiliation is IMO crossing the line just a bit. (Steve seems a little too controlling for may taste.) After all you say your the one who actually created this page, you say it has been informative to your residents and has not caused problems, right? I think you just dropping any involvement/affiliation just because you now sit on the board would send the wrong message to the community (all of a sudden you abandon and don't support the idea of something you started? it would seem weird to me if I were a resident). I'd assure Steve that you will be especially careful of what you say and contribute on the Facebook and how it will reflect on the HOA as a whole and BOD, but will continue to have some involvement with what you originally created. Good Luck and Congrats on your new position.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 163

Posted:

If you want me off, pass a Board Resolution.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I did wonder, Richard, about what Fred would do if the Board passed a resolution directing him to get off. But I also wondered how the board would have that kind of authority to actually make such a demand and then enforce it????? On what grounds could they even give Fred such instructions?? And enforce it how?

(I'm not in the legal professions either)

JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218

Posted:

Interesting topic. We do not have an official HOA Facebook page for association. I actually have thought about setting one up as another means of communicating what is going on with our HOA. We do have a block Facebook pages. Our block includes a half of block of residents in an entire different HOA. Our block FB page is used to discuss crime and safety issues that are non-HOA specific. We have a block captain that admins the group.

With that said, we did have a disgruntled homeowner set up a FB group with our HOA name. She started it because she was not happy with the action the board was taking against her and her husband (violation notices and ultimately fines/legal costs). She sent out a flier in the HOA about this new FB page (in her words) "to facilitate open and honest discussion among HOA homeowners". Interestingly, the FB has been up for about 8 months and there is 1 member: her. By the way, while the page is open to all of our HOA residents, the board was told we would not be allowed to join. Apparently, if we were allowed to join, it "would stifle any discussion about the board and their actions."

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Jerry

You say:

the board was told we would not be allowed to join. Apparently, if we were allowed to join, it "would stifle any discussion about the board and their actions."

Told by whom?

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

After speaking with the HOA's lawyers, and my own attorneys, it seems the board would be placed in a precarious situation and the person (s) demanding a member not be part of a Social Media page would be open to a lawsuit and according to prior test cases lose the argument requiring a board member to leave a social media page, or pages.

In any case the board member dropped the demand, resigned, and I was voted as President by the rest of the members.

The entire community wanted to continue the satus quo, stating having a board member on a community FB page would be advantageous and that "At least, someone from the HOA would be listening to residents comments."

I also stated to the board, and the community, that I have no interest in be posting anything on the FB page, which would be derogatory to our community that my posts it would be my own personal opinion on a matter having no reflection on a board, or members.

Another board member stated that he is on the FB page as well, and that he posts under a different name.

Seinfeld, anyone?.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Fred

Your first post/question was earlier today then some 8 hours late it has all been resoved with lawyers, the BOD, a resignation.

Why do I think you knew this all before you aksed abd as such, why ask?

JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218

Posted:

John, we were told by the person that started the FB page (she is still the admin though the only member of the group). It was more directed towards me since she felt that I was the main instigator for all the troubles she has gone through the last year or so.

Apparently her intention was to recruit other homeowners to join and then they could talk about how bad the BOD is and how poorly run the HOA is. Fortunately, no one fell for her antics and that is why she is the only member.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 163

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/02/2015 2:50 PM
I did wonder, Richard, about what Fred would do if the Board passed a resolution directing him to get off. But I also wondered how the board would have that kind of authority to actually make such a demand and then enforce it????? On what grounds could they even give Fred such instructions?? And enforce it how?

(I'm not in the legal professions either)

If they passed a resolution, the question would be how valid would it be. I don't think much. Much can come from social media, you have to know work with it. It could be your worst nightmare, but usually that will happened, social media or not.

As far as I know, free speech has not yet been abolished.

JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218

Posted:

Social media does have it pitfalls. We removed one of our design review committee members for what she posted on Facebook. It was disparaging and uncalled for. Our by-laws specifically state that board/committee members are not allowed to disparage other homeowners, board members, the management company or their employees. This particular individual called me specically a Nazi and an elitist snob. I am pretty thick skinned and have been insulted by far worse. But in this case, it was appropriate for us to remove her from her position.

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 03/02/2015 4:53 PM
Fred

Your first post/question was earlier today then some 8 hours late it has all been resoved with lawyers, the BOD, a resignation.

Why do I think you knew this all before you aksed abd as such, why ask?

John C.
Because the lawyers were contacted today by me to inquire about the problem, many hours after my posting .
When someone here stated that he was not a lawyer at his comment ... That prompted the idea to directly contact attorneys.
FW.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/02/2015 9:17 PM

When someone here stated that he was not a lawyer at his comment ... That prompted the idea to directly contact attorneys.
FW.

Fred,

Did you contact a personal attorney or the Association's attorney?

If it was the Association attorney you contacted, did you have authority to do so (keeping in mind that the fact you are on the board typically does not authorize you to expend funds for a legal opinion without Board approval)?

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So lets see .....the OP posted their question here.

Had the brainstorm to contact BOTH their attorney AND the HOA attorney for their opinions.

They concluded the demands made by the other board member put the board in legal jeopardy and as luck would have it that board member suddenly felt the need to resign and the OP was somehow voted in to the President's position.

All this in a few short hours!

I'm having a little difficulty believing the time line.

Now the OP seems to have killed two birds with one stone.

They can remain on the FB page and the other problematic board member resigned.

And the property owners foot the legal bill for this all.

Sound judgement all around......

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm feeling the same way, Jon. Something tells me that FredW presented us with a fictional case to show us that an HOA Board cannot legally shut down a director's freedom of speech.

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/04/2015 2:57 PM
I'm feeling the same way, Jon. Something tells me that FredW presented us with a fictional case to show us that an HOA Board cannot legally shut down a director's freedom of speech.

Chill,. Get your facts straight before accusing, or presenting erroneous vapid opinions.

The board asked if it would be ok with the members, including me to consult with our HOA attorney regarding this situation . This was hours AFTER I posted my query here.

I then asked my own company lawyers to look into the situation.

Both the HOA attorney, and my own attorneys discussed, and concurred:

"No HOA can prevent a board member from being part of ANY Social media, however, the board member must state that he is posting his own views on a community FB website.

Better, yet we were all encouraged not to post anything negative or criticisms having to do with the HOA, although he (or She) may post social commentary, personal discussions etc. (There are other board members on FB..

I hope this clarifies for those who automatically accuse an OP of unproven fictionalities.

P.S. This did not cost anyone anything, since the legal opinions were rendered as a courtesy . (We do have cordial relationships with our HOA attorney , and mine , which are on retainer for my companies.

Had my HOA board incurred costs , I would have been happy to reimburse.

Now, on to meaningful community problems to be addressed.

FW.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/02/2015 4:50 PM
After speaking with the HOA's lawyers, and my own attorneys, it seems the board would be placed in a precarious situation and the person (s) demanding a member not be part of a Social Media page would be open to a lawsuit and according to prior test cases lose the argument requiring a board member to leave a social media page, or pages.

In any case the board member dropped the demand, resigned, and I was voted as President by the rest of the members.

The entire community wanted to continue the satus quo, stating having a board member on a community FB page would be advantageous and that "At least, someone from the HOA would be listening to residents comments."

I also stated to the board, and the community, that I have no interest in be posting anything on the FB page, which would be derogatory to our community that my posts it would be my own personal opinion on a matter having no reflection on a board, or members.

Another board member stated that he is on the FB page as well, and that he posts under a different name.

Seinfeld, anyone?.

Gee Fred you skipped the part where the other board member "dropped their demand! resigned! and then YOU were voted in to serve as President"

Was this during a board meeting? Just how did you rise to President come about?

And in between discussions with lawyers, accepting the resignation of a board member, and assuming the role of President you had time to poll the feelings and views of the entire community. Just how was that accomplished in such a short period of time?

Does sound like an episode of Seinfeld just a little far fetched for me.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 03/04/2015 4:13 PM

I agree. To much to have happened in a few hours.

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

John d:" Gee Fred you skipped the part where the other board member "dropped their demand! resigned! and then YOU were voted in to serve as President"

Was this during a board meeting? Just how did you rise to President come about?

And in between discussions with lawyers, accepting the resignation of a board member, and assuming the role of President you had time to poll the feelings and views of the entire community. Just how was that accomplished in such a short period of time?

Does sound like an episode of Seinfeld just a little far fetched for me.

I agree. To much to have happened in a few hours.

A nrief lesson:

Its called the presidential line of succession -
I am Vice-President.
President Resigns.
Vice President Becomes President.

Amen. Finished.
Not getting into a pissing contest with you.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Funny how what you post conflicts with your other posts.

In one post ABOVE you were voted in by the members of the board.

Now it was simply succession you were the VP and when the President chose to suddenly resign bingo you become President.

Now under our documents there is no mention of succession. Members serving on our board are elected into the positions of officers.

Perhaps under your state guidelines that is how it works when a position becomes suddenly open

So you seem to have gone from newly elected board member to Vice-President and now in a few short hours you are President.

Things sure do move fast in your neighborhood.

If one didn't know better they might come to think you orchestrated this whole series of events.

You know like seeking legal counsel from your own attorney in the hopes they would give you what you wanted. I have never heard of an HOA board seeking legal advisement from the private attorney of one of its members. And all for FREE!
Like how the former President came to dropping their demand and then resigning within a few short hours. Just how were they made aware of the legal opinions your attorneys provided?
Like all of this occurred absent a board meeting including the board accepting the formal written resignation of the former board President.

What a shock all of this must have been to you!

Simply amazing how all of this just fell into place without so much as a small bump to slow the process down..

Congratulations Mr. President. My guess you got what you wanted.

As Judge Judy suggests when things don't make sense they are probably not TRUE.

I of course believe everything you have told us..........

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/04/2015 4:47 PM

A nrief lesson:

Its called the presidential line of succession -
I am Vice-President.
President Resigns.
Vice President Becomes President.

Actually, the proper process in the Corporate world would be:

You are the VP
President Resigns
As VP you perform the duties of the President until the Board appoints a new one (which may or may not be you)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Well, it's possible, I guess, that the bylaws in Fred's HOA say that the VP automatically becomes prez when the latter resigns. But I'm betting that FL Corporations Codes do not requite the VP becomes prez when the prez vacates the position.

If "Steven" was the president, why didn't Fred tell us upfront? And why would Steven resign merely because his advice to Fred wasn't correct?

And I think FL has meeting notice laws of xxx hours or xxx days. So a meeting could not have been called (to appoint Fred president) within one day unless (I believe) an emergency. Even if FL permits online meetings I'm thinking they, too, might only be for emergencies.

CjC
Posts: 210

Posted:

We have a very large HOA and many BOD members on on the FB page. This is an informative way to get info in front of members ASAP. BUT the BOD members routinely say if there is something you want to discuss or want addressed, you need to send them an email. They do not respond to or address problem mentioned on FB only through the advertised channels (ie - work order with management or email to the BOD) It is fair to be able to see what is going on and be a part of FB but not use that as a tool to inform the BOD of problem and expect a response.

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/02/2015 10:47 AM
Just asking for an opinion. Our attorneys mentioned that it is against the Second Amendment to prevent anyone, board member, or not from participating in ANY social media discussions.

It would be contentious , if it were mentioned, or written in the HOA By-laws.

If correct in your statement, said attorney is mentally challenged, to say the least.

The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. It reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

IMO: You are now a Director, direct and cease the www opinionating.

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

oh ..... crap ..... just noticed date of thread

CjC
Posts: 210

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaaN on 09/13/2018 6:10 AM
oh ..... crap ..... just noticed date of thread

why are old threads showing up at the top of my timeline?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 03/02/2015 9:48 AM
Hello, everyone.
I have been elected as a member to our HOA board.

I have also been a member of our community Facebook page which I created a while back, as an informative residents discussion group.

today I received an e-mail from one of the members, who was is also a board member. (Below)

Question:

Is this legal to ask for? All discussions on the Facebook page have been informative, and some point out residents own views on the community.

Nothing in our by-laws state that a board member cannot be on Facebook or any social media discussions regarding the community, etc.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.

Facebook is a bad idea. Not everyone uses it and that excludes them from the conversation.

JackE5 (California)
Posts: 21

Posted:

I agree with Gino, I want nothing to do with facebook. What about the service offered here? A web page type of thing?

AnnetteO (Massachusetts)
Posts: 6

Posted:

If you strongly feel you must continue, I'd do as suggested by JohnC: be very careful to NOT post your opinions about ANY HOA matters. As others have pointed out, you as a director on the board should all speak with one voice." KerryL1

When and where was it established that Boards should speak with one voice? Is the representative model, such as we see in our governmental bodies, never used? In the representative model we would never expect the board to speak with one voice, even though policies that are voted on must be enforced.

Sorry, I'm new to HOATalk and don't know how to make those nice quote formats.

tia
AO

AnnetteO (Massachusetts)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Is this "speak with one voice" model the only model for boards? If the representative model is used then we would no more think of a board member as automatically speaking for the board than we would think of Chuck Schumer or Mitch McConnell as speaking for the whole senate.

Do any of you hear at HOATalk have boards that use this model?

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177

Posted:

Bottom line: All Our Board members are now part of Our Facebook page.No problems whatsoever. Any problems or matters regarding HOA are referred to our management company.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredW5 on 09/27/2018 6:35 AM
Bottom line: All Our Board members are now part of Our Facebook page.No problems whatsoever. Any problems or matters regarding HOA are referred to our management company.

That's too bad. FB is evil. There's not one thing about you they won't try to cash in on. I think the requirement to join FB so that people can follow along with what's going on in the community is unreasonable.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnetteO on 09/27/2018 6:12 AM
Is this "speak with one voice" model the only model for boards? If the representative model is used then we would no more think of a board member as automatically speaking for the board than we would think of Chuck Schumer or Mitch McConnell as speaking for the whole senate.

Do any of you hear at HOATalk have boards that use this model?

Personally, as a director myself, I've never hesitated to make it known when I disagreed with my fellow directors. I won't defend them if they do something with which I disagree, and I don't expect them to do so for me either. So I would say my attitude falls under the "representative" model. Our homeownership has a range of opinions on things, so to me it makes sense that our Board would display that too.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Fred,

Thank you for the update to this 3 year old thread that got reactivated.

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