rogue board member

Started by PatriciaL1 • 37 replies • 3061 views

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PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

Hi, I'm new to this forum and to being a board member. I am the president of our board. We have a vice president who has been on the board for many (10+) years. He has gotten used to getting his way. All the homeowners know him and many like him because he comes across so helpful and friendly. But here is my problem.

We agreed in the board meeting to a specific way of tree trimming. He agreed while in session. Later, outside the board meeting he changed his mined and put typed "anonymous" notes in many (not all) the homeowner's mailboxes saying the board was doing a new and bad thing and that the homeowners should show up to the meeting to express their displeasure. I don't think it was okay for him to go behind the board's back with this letter campaign. He has done this in the past with previous boards. Agreeing, then sabotaging.

Another incident was when he again placed typed notes (on the HOA letterhead) into each homeowners mailboxes, saying entry into the back yards would be necessary in two days, please leave them unlocked. A few homeowners didn't get the notes (or forgot). He then authorized cutting the locks off their back gates. All this was occurring without board knowledge - we had not authorized the inspections yet. I said he didn't have authority to open back gates and the notification should have come from the management company, not from a note dropped into your mailbox by a board member (Not even discussing the federal law regarding placing stuff in mailboxes.) and those homes were potentially placed at risk.

One of our elderly homeowners was concerned regarding a big storm coming that her back door might leak and allow rain to enter. He authorized the door to be covered with a tarp, duct taped into place. (Supposedly the leaking door had already been fixed, but she was too afraid to "test it" with the storm.) I said he was creating an unsafe situation for her by sealing off her second egress from the house. (The homeowner hates the board now because we were so unreasonable and of course he was the nice guy.)

I have many other examples of his independent decisions which affect the HOA finances and cause worry among the other directors.

Is he a liability to the board with his actions? If I do not address this behavior them am I equally at risk? Is a reprimand appropriate? Can this be done without facing slander or other problems?

Thanks for any insight.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Pat

Officers are elected by the BOD thus if other members of the BOD feel the same way about the fellow, then line your ducks up and call for a BOD Election. Hopefully he will not be re-elected as VP. Now this does not stop him from acting on his own, but it might be the beginning of getting him off the BOD come election time.

The BOD could, in executive session, reprimand him but would this stop the behavior?

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM
Hi, I'm new to this forum and to being a board member. I am the president of our board. We have a vice president who has been on the board for many (10+) years. He has gotten used to getting his way. All the homeowners know him and many like him because he comes across so helpful and friendly. But here is my problem.

We agreed in the board meeting to a specific way of tree trimming. He agreed while in session. Later, outside the board meeting he changed his mined and put typed "anonymous" notes in many (not all) the homeowner's mailboxes saying the board was doing a new and bad thing and that the homeowners should show up to the meeting to express their displeasure. I don't think it was okay for him to go behind the board's back with this letter campaign. He has done this in the past with previous boards. Agreeing, then sabotaging.

Another incident was when he again placed typed notes (on the HOA letterhead) into each homeowners mailboxes, saying entry into the back yards would be necessary in two days, please leave them unlocked. A few homeowners didn't get the notes (or forgot). He then authorized cutting the locks off their back gates. All this was occurring without board knowledge - we had not authorized the inspections yet. I said he didn't have authority to open back gates and the notification should have come from the management company, not from a note dropped into your mailbox by a board member (Not even discussing the federal law regarding placing stuff in mailboxes.) and those homes were potentially placed at risk.

One of our elderly homeowners was concerned regarding a big storm coming that her back door might leak and allow rain to enter. He authorized the door to be covered with a tarp, duct taped into place. (Supposedly the leaking door had already been fixed, but she was too afraid to "test it" with the storm.) I said he was creating an unsafe situation for her by sealing off her second egress from the house. (The homeowner hates the board now because we were so unreasonable and of course he was the nice guy.)

I have many other examples of his independent decisions which affect the HOA finances and cause worry among the other directors.

Is he a liability to the board with his actions? If I do not address this behavior them am I equally at risk? Is a reprimand appropriate? Can this be done without facing slander or other problems?

Thanks for any insight.

In your board meeting minutes, do you write out who votes for and against items. I suggest that you begin doing so. This helps transparency and shows people who they feel is best representing their opinions.

If the notes are anonymous, and you can't prove that he did this, then you only have suspicions. When you learn about someone typing anonymous notes, you can publicly invite people to a discussion about the problem.

Notes that have the HOA letterhead but are not authorized by the board should have set off an automatic action to censure the VP. If he authorized the cutting of the locks, then he should pay for the service to replace and you should have asked for a hearing on this matter.

The board should be discussing these problems and make it clear that it wasn't the board giving authorization and that hopefully, the members can check with your newsletter or official FB page as to what is really happening.

You need to get these matters out in the open and make everyone aware that someone is acting without authority and against the majority vote and you should put financial liability on that person.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

We agreed in the board meeting to a specific way of tree trimming. He agreed while in session. Later, outside the board meeting he changed his mined and put typed "anonymous" notes in many (not all) the homeowner's mailboxes saying the board was doing a new and bad thing and that the homeowners should show up to the meeting to express their displeasure. I don't think it was okay for him to go behind the board's back with this letter campaign. He has done this in the past with previous boards. Agreeing, then sabotaging

I would guess it's time for a show-down, somebody has to leave the board

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

Another incident was when he again placed typed notes (on the HOA letterhead) into each homeowners mailboxes, saying entry into the back yards would be necessary in two days, please leave them unlocked. A few homeowners didn't get the notes (or forgot). He then authorized cutting the locks off their back gates. All this was occurring without board knowledge - we had not authorized the inspections yet. I said he didn't have authority to open back gates and the notification should have come from the management company, not from a note dropped into your mailbox by a board member (Not even discussing the federal law regarding placing stuff in mailboxes.) and those homes were potentially placed at risk.

As an aside, unless your HOA has this in the documents, or your development is in fact single or attached townehomes, I don't think the HOA has the right to enter a property for inspection.

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

One of our elderly homeowners was concerned regarding a big storm coming that her back door might leak and allow rain to enter. He authorized the door to be covered with a tarp, duct taped into place. (Supposedly the leaking door had already been fixed, but she was too afraid to "test it" with the storm.) I said he was creating an unsafe situation for her by sealing off her second egress from the house. (The homeowner hates the board now because we were so unreasonable and of course he was the nice guy.)

This I would give a pass to

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Welcome to the forum, Patricia. I'm sorry that your board service is beginning in such an unpleasant way.

Does your HOA comprise attached homes? How many dwellings in your HOA? How many directors?

Your VP could cause serious problems for your Board. If you directors do not censure him, you could be seen as endorsing or at worst tolerating his behavior!! Your first obligation is to protect your HOA, which includes protecting it fromlawsuits!

Some of his behavior MAY be illegal, like threatening to cut backyard locks or entering without permission. This depends on your documents. You already know about mailboxes.

He may NOT imply in notes/letters that he's acting on behalf of the Board.

Along with censure, your Board should vote him out of the office of VP--you do NOT have to wait until your annual election.

You can do all of this in executive session, but be sure your minutes are sufficient, e.g., note the vote(s) to censure.

Meantime, Patricia, visit the excellent website written by CA HOA attorneys Davis-stirling.com, go to Main Index, look up rogue directors, censure, etc.

Also, read your bylaws and CC&Rs.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is ILLEGAL to put anything in a mailbox without a stamp on it. The postal service frowns upon that and lucky not caught so far. The postal worker can remove those from the mailbox. So you may want to point this out to everyone to NOT put anything in a mailbox without a stamp or it will be reported to the postal inspectors. Who by the way are FEDERAL law enforcers....

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Hi Patricia,

I would also like to welcome you to the forum and comment on your questions.

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

Is he a liability to the board with his actions?

We don't have all the information you do, therefore, I don't think anyone can say for sure.

Keep in mind that I am not an attorney and I do not work in the legal profession. Based on my personal experiences, what I can say is that when a member of the Board authorizes something on their own, the individual(s) they are giving the authorization to has good faith that the decision is from the Board and not just the one individual. Therefore, if the Board then went back and corrected this authorization and the member incurred expenses based on the previous authorization, they would likely win any legal action to be reimbursed for their expenses.

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

If I do not address this behavior them am I equally at risk?

Since you know about it and if you have documented proof, then failing to act would be similar to saying that the Board approves of what he is doing.

Keep in mind, that as President (and being an Officer and a Director is like having two jobs with different responsibilities and authority), you only make sure that decisions of the Board are implemented. It's the Board as a whole that makes the decisions. Therefore, as President, again, if you have proof your responsibility would be to bring the issue to the Board.

The Board as a whole, must decide how to address the issue.

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

Is a reprimand appropriate?

As I said, that would be a Board decision.

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 7:33 AM

Can this be done without facing slander or other problems?

Depends on the proof you have (actual documented proof, not hearsay or suspicion)

If you don't have proof, using the trees as an example, the way I would address it would be to bring the issue to the Board. The issue being that someone unknown is spreading false rumors and the Board needs to set the record straight. Then suggest the following:

Create a flyer about the issue and a need to address the anonymous letters being circulated about the issue.

In the flyer explain the following:

1) The different options the Board had
2) The reasons why the Board voted to utilize the option they chose
3) The fact that the Board decision was unanimous
4) That members are welcome to attend meetings
5) That the Board is certainly willing to hear from any member about any issue
6) It's a shame that the individual to created the initial letter chose to be anonymous vs. bringing the issue directly to the Board and the Board hopes that they would be willing to come forward and discuss issues with the Board prior to taking such actions they felt were needed.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

I have been studying the website Davis-Stirling.com. Very helpful but sometimes the legalese is complex. I've also been attending seminars given by the management company. It helps, and makes me a bit more nervous. ;-)

Just for information, while the circulated letters were anonymous, when I asked him directly at the subsequent board meeting, in front of the other directors, he admitted to sending them out. We are 51 townhouse style homes, (14 buildings makes for a various number of homes attached in each building). Five on the Board. It was (routine) fire-escape ladder inspections that caused him to cut the locks.

Voting him off the board is not likely. He is extremely helpful, making sure our buildings are properly maintained, so he does have positives to offer. I don't really want to get him to resign, I just want him to work within legal frameworks and not place the HOA at risk. The other board members are new like me. They come to me with their concerns. When I tell him he is causing a risk to the HOA, he says not to worry, "there is no risk". The other board members and I also do not want to quit. We just want it done right.

Your responses have been very helpful! Keep them coming! Thanks again.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Instead of saying that he is causing risk, simply state that he is exceeding his authority.

Again, Officers and Directors are two different jobs and perhaps he needs to be reminded of that.

If there are too many interpretations in what your documents say the jobs are, you may need to better define the jobs.

As for the legalize, this thread in the forum may be of assistance:

Subject: How to read a statute (law)

Also, here is another reference along those same lines:

A GUIDE TO READING, INTERPRETING AND APPLYING STATUTES from the Georgetown University Law Center

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Glad you found D-S.com, Patricia.

What I suggested above is that your Board vote to remove him from the office of VP, in executive session. He would still be a director on your Board. In your case, it sounds like he was elected by H/Os and only can be recalled (kicked off the Board entirely) by them.

Alternatively, your Board can warn him in executive session that if he continues to exceed his authority, the Board will vote to remove him from the office of VP. Make sure that's recorded in your minutes (to protect you/your HOA) And stick to it. He still, as a Board member/director, can do what you others think is valuable.

Does your Board ever actually meeting in executive session, Patricia? The reason I ask is because of your quote: "...while the circulated letters were anonymous, when I asked him directly at the subsequent board meeting, in front of the other directors, he admitted to sending them out."

Did you ask him this at a meeting of the board, which in CA must be open to homeowners (members)? Or did you mean to say you asked him in executive session?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 11:24 AM

Just for information, while the circulated letters were anonymous, when I asked him directly at the subsequent board meeting, in front of the other directors, he admitted to sending them out.

Then that issue has been addressed (as the time to have done something was then).

You will now have to wait for the next issue he causes.

Until that happens (and hopefully it won't), use the time to emphasis who has what authority and that anything beyond that authority requires approval from the Board.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

err - prior approval from the Board.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

For now, Patricia, I'm thinking that (with total respect) that Tim's references don't get at tyne topics that are of concern to your board.

Since you all are new directors except the rogue director, the statutes explanations may be a bit of a distraction for now.

Cruise the D-S.com website instead. They really do a great job of explaining matters. It seems you all need the basics, i.e, the different between meeting of the Board, meetings of members and executive session. And maybe the differences between officer and directors. A lot of these come form CA Corporations Codes, but D-S.com can clarify them

Do you, Patricia, have any specific questions about what you've read on that website? Perhaps some of us can translate!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/01/2015 1:49 PM
For now, Patricia, I'm thinking that (with total respect) that Tim's references don't get at tyne topics that are of concern to your board.

Carol, You are correct. The links I provided was simply because Patricia said she had a little trouble with the legalize. I wasn't trying to provide any references for any Board issue. It was simply trying to provide assistance for a side issue a passing comment was made on.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Hi Patrice

It does sound like he has exceeded the scope of his authority.

Then again, you have 4 new members and an old timer who may have had to carry the entire monkey on his back for many years. Perhaps what he needs to hear from the new members is that you are all ready to work together, but that means he should not be acting without board authorization.

Spelling out what each of you can and cannot do on your own is always a good idea.

Re your questions - yes he is potentially exposing the association to liability - yes you could become personally liable if you know that he is exceeding his scope of authority and do nothing about it - a formal reprimand can cut both ways and you know the situation better by far than we do - slander is not really an issue if no false statements are made.

Your big issue IMO is filling 5 board seats from 51 homes. From what you have described, you seem to be the kind of person who can appease the difficult personalities without alienating them - and get the job done. Good luck.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

NpS adds nice advice too, Patricia. Does your Property Mgr. (PM) attend your meetings? If so, maybe s/he can help explain typical duties for officers at other HOAs the PM is familiar with.

And it's great that you're attending the seminar put on by your Mgmt. Co. (MC).

Your own bylaws also should spell out the duties of each officer. Generally, the VP fills in for the president if the president cannot or refuses to act. The president also, and I'd only do it with the agreement via a vote of the Board at a meeting, assign special tasks to the VP. Since the VP seems to have a particular strength, he may appreciate it and feel flattered if the Board assigns him a "special project" along those lines.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

We do meet in executive sessions, usually to discuss delinquencies.

I addressed him in the regular meeting when the opportunity arose. There were no homeowners there (rarely do they attend meetings). I thought it was okay to ask him at that time since we were not discussing sanctions. I did not know reprimands or other sanctions existed until after the meeting when another (new) board member approached me and began that conversation.

I actually expected this whole HOA thing to go a bit smoother. I am learning a lot more than I expected!

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 03/01/2015 2:16 PM
Hi Patrice

It does sound like he has exceeded the scope of his authority.

Then again, you have 4 new members and an old timer who may have had to carry the entire monkey on his back for many years. Perhaps what he needs to hear from the new members is that you are all ready to work together, but that means he should not be acting without board authorization.

Spelling out what each of you can and cannot do on your own is always a good idea.

Re your questions - yes he is potentially exposing the association to liability - yes you could become personally liable if you know that he is exceeding his scope of authority and do nothing about it - a formal reprimand can cut both ways and you know the situation better by far than we do - slander is not really an issue if no false statements are made.

You have it correct. He is an old timer who carried on when nobody else did. Even the management company was lethargic at that time.

Now we have an energized group who is concerned about doing things right and liability. We also have a young involved manager who has actually been the key in alerting me to the "irregularities".

I do not want nor do I think we need to wait until the next incident to discuss this. From all your inputs I am thinking of having Board Actions as an agenda item and then discussing what we should be doing. As long as this is just a discussion of "best practice" and a discussion of what the consequences might be (removal from office, reprimand) does it have to be done in executive session?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes, it's difficult for lots of us to encourage H/O attendance at open meetings. We've been getting about 20 our of 211 condos for the past few months, but that's the best we've had in quite a while and it's because we have some items on the agenda that are interesting to some H/Os.

Do check D-S.com for what is permitted in ex. sess. You'll also see personnel matters and although a great area, both our PM, our HOA attorney and the website agree that the "discipline" of a director or committee members or chairs can be considered "personnel matters."

Does you PM attend meetings, take minutes, etc.?

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

Oh yes. The PM is at every meeting and takes minutes. The minutes are sparse, but I understand that is a legal requirement.

On the advice of this forum I will ask that "board actions" be on the executive session agenda (which follows every regular meeting).

The reason I do not want to wait until the "next incident" is because I see it coming already. Our RBM (rouge board member) is also our Maintenance Committee which is great because we do need someone to maintain the properties which had apparently fallen into decline in past years. So we have a handyman who works for us. Our RBM gives him work to do and authorizes everything. He then reports to the board at our meetings (after the fact) regarding what has been done. It took me a year to pull his (buried) salary from our budget. Turns out we have been approving >$100,000 work annually after the fact. Our handyman has earned over $90K on his part time salary. He does excellent work, and maybe all of the work is necessary work. But I just don't feel comfortable approving the work after it has been done.

When I asked the RBM for a list of high priority items, meaning work that needed to be done in the future, he declined. He is "retired and no longer has a boss and is not willing to answer to a boss". So I went to the handyman and told him I want him to present (at the next board meeting) a proposal for the work that he expects to do in the next two months. Then we can look it over and either okay it, ask for comparative quotes, or deny.

Whew. Let's see what happens next!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

The reason I do not want to wait until the "next incident" is because I see it coming already. Our RBM (rouge board member) is also our Maintenance Committee which is great because we do need someone to maintain the properties which had apparently fallen into decline in past years.

Well he needs to be removed from the maintenance committee and one of you newbies needs to step-up. If you don't his passive-aggressive behavior will kill the new Board.

BTW. At the next meeting when he votes for something, I would ask him if he was really, really sure as you wouldn't want him to have to skulk around passing anonymous notes like he was still in high school.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/01/2015 5:37 PM
Our RBM (rouge board member) is also our Maintenance Committee which is great because we do need someone to maintain the properties which had apparently fallen into decline in past years. So we have a handyman who works for us. Our RBM gives him work to do and authorizes everything. He then reports to the board at our meetings (after the fact) regarding what has been done. It took me a year to pull his (buried) salary from our budget. Turns out we have been approving >$100,000 work annually after the fact. Our handyman has earned over $90K on his part time salary. He does excellent work, and maybe all of the work is necessary work. But I just don't feel comfortable approving the work after it has been done.

When I asked the RBM for a list of high priority items, meaning work that needed to be done in the future, he declined. He is "retired and no longer has a boss and is not willing to answer to a boss". So I went to the handyman and told him I want him to present (at the next board meeting) a proposal for the work that he expects to do in the next two months. Then we can look it over and either okay it, ask for comparative quotes, or deny.

We set limits for every position. Any board member can authorize spending up to $200 without prior approval from the rest of the board. For Prez, the limit is $500. Of course, the amounts spent must be in the budget, but there is always some wiggle room in the budget. We trust each other to get done what needs to be done.

Example - The cost of a replacement bulb for our streetlamps is $40 but the cost of a man and a bucket truck brings it to $200. The responsible board member was calling the electrician every time a bulb went out. Another board member saw how much we were spending and asked if we could wait for two bulbs to go out before calling the electrician. They agreed. Now the electrician is called when a second light goes out. The rest of the board doesn't have to deal with the little stuff.

In your case Patricia, $90k is a lot of money. I like your idea of bringing the handyman in to present on his own behalf. Maybe he can do what your old time board member can't - give you his ideas on how you can spend money with him most cost effectively.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 03/01/2015 8:06 PM

Example - The cost of a replacement bulb for our streetlamps is $40 but the cost of a man and a bucket truck brings it to $200. The responsible board member was calling the electrician every time a bulb went out. Another board member saw how much we were spending and asked if we could wait for two bulbs to go out before calling the electrician. They agreed. Now the electrician is called when a second light goes out. The rest of the board doesn't have to deal with the little stuff.

That's why some places preemptively change bulbs based on a time known schedule. But then you run into the problem of people complaining about "perfectly good" bulbs being changed and discarded, not realizing that the money is in the labor and mobilization.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/01/2015 9:01 PM

I like your approach Mark. Unfortunately, our old records on bulb replacement aren't very good.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

The outfits that do nothing but change street type bulbs have a good handle on the schedule. But like I said, the problem is cranky people complaining about operating bulbs being s canned

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Back to your situation, Patricia. $90,000/yr. in wages to a part time handyman sounds waaaay out of line!! Is he a direct employee of your HOA?? Are you providing him with insurance, etc. etc?

Our skilled journeyman plumber (our chief engineer in our twin high rises) earns only $40/hr. & we have lots complex mechanical & plumbing needs. His assistant, whom I'd characterize as a handyman, earns $19/hr..!

You're on the right track having your handyman bring you lists of what "needs" to be done and the estimated cost at your very next meeting!

But the whole previous arrangement with your RBM sounds very sketchy and worse. If your HOA hasn't had a audit in recent years, I think you want one for 2014. These audits in CA are due April 1 ( I think). Check D-S.com for more.

Does your PM work onsite at all? I'm thinking maybe not given you're 51 dwellings. But please review the contract; shouldn't the PM be getting your bids for work? Or is that not part of his scope of work?

You say that the RBM IS your Maintenance Committee. Committees must be appointed by the board. Boards are responsible for their committees. Committees that can spend HOA funds must keep minutes. If your bylaws say little about committees and you're incorporated, you'll find a little in CA Corp Codes. But better help is at the D-S.com site, Committees. So it seems there are some additional "irregularities" that you'll need to work on, Patricia.

I hope that your other new colleagues are as willing and eager to learn as you are, Patricia. Your treasurer surely needs to be brought up to speed.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

Well the hits just keep coming. So our RBM has now sent a letter to all the board members saying he is resigning. Fine. More importantly he has send a different letter to all the homeowners saying he is resigning and will be happy to discuss the reasons for his resignation at the next board meeting and if they wish to know why they should attend. Last time he did this was with the anonymous letter regarding the trees. We had a reasonable number of attendees (finally) but it was like seeing the towns people with the pitchforks and torches storming the lab to "Kill the monster"! I can only imagine what will happen. I am quickly drafting notes referencing all times the board felt he had placed our association at risk.

Aye Caramba! Keep the positive ideas coming. Thanks.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Take the high road. At the next board meeting mention that he has been an asset to the association over the years and it will be hard to fill his shoes. Then, treat him like any other member who attends board meetings and give him the opportunity to speak at the appropriate time.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Tim's right on target. Stay professional at that meeting.

When he comes to the next meeting of the Board., treat him as any other homeowner, i.e, he speaks ONLY during open forum and, in CA, you as presider can limit the length of time that he speaks. Do you have your open forum at the beginning or end of your open meetings? it should on your agenda. You also should announce his resignation at some point to the membership an have it noted in the minutes

It's hard to tell from my outsider's perspective, and given some of his juvenile and petulant behavior, but he MAY have resigned because he's MAY be wrroed about the /board finding that he's not behaved ethically or legally. I hope your PM is giving you some help.

Going out of town till tomorrow afternoon. Hope others here will advise you further too!!

NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/01/2015 10:10 AM
It is ILLEGAL to put anything in a mailbox without a stamp on it. The postal service frowns upon that and lucky not caught so far. The postal worker can remove those from the mailbox. So you may want to point this out to everyone to NOT put anything in a mailbox without a stamp or it will be reported to the postal inspectors. Who by the way are FEDERAL law enforcers....

Postal Inspectors have far more on their hands to investigate than violations of Title 18 USC Section 1725. While that particular statute is a criminal statute, it is only an infraction. I can assure you that the federal government is not going to initiate a criminal case against someone who puts fliers in a mailbox. If a Postal Inspector where to take a case of fliers in the mailbox to the US Attorney for prosecution they'd be laughed out of the office.

The very worst that could happen in a case like this would be that the Postal Service would try to collect postage due.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/03/2015 10:15 AM
Tim's right on target. Stay professional at that meeting.

When he comes to the next meeting of the Board., treat him as any other homeowner, i.e, he speaks ONLY during open forum and, in CA, you as presider can limit the length of time that he speaks. Do you have your open forum at the beginning or end of your open meetings? it should on your agenda. You also should announce his resignation at some point to the membership an have it noted in the minutes
!

Be sure to accept his resignation at the meeting ASAP. Arguably, a resignation is not permanent until formally accepted. You don't wan't to give him the ability to get on a soap box at the meeting as a member of the Board

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NigelB on 03/04/2015 7:50 AM

Absolutely correct. And there is no reason to point out to others at the meeting not to put things in mailboxes. That's not the concern of the OP, kind of like the OP doesn't need to get up in front of the members at the board meeting and tell them not to speed in school zones and make sure they thoroughly chew their food. MYOB

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Patricia, in CA per our corporations codes, the Board does not need to "accept" resignations so long as they are in writing (email is fine) and state a date the resignation is effective.

Do seek advice and hop form your PM. This is a period in your HOA's history when your new Board can see if your new MC if worth what you're paying them. Also scrutinize your contract with your MC to see if there's more that they should be doing for you. I'm thinking especially about who's going to look after your maintenance needs now.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

Yup. I am working on my speech now. Once everybody has been seated before anything happens. "First off I want to acknowledge and accept RBM's resignation effective the date of post mark. We all are grateful for his many years of service and all the things he has done to help our community. He was there to pull us through some dark times when the buildings were not as well maintained and now we can say things are in pretty good shape. I wish him the best in whatever new paths he embarks upon. RMB, according to your letter of resignation you have some items to turn over to us. Please pass those on to our PM. We have already interviewed several homeowners as potential replacements. Feel free to contact the PM if you would like to be considered. Our decision will be announced shortly."

Short, sweet and to the point. Now we begin our homeowners forum. This is supposed to be limited to 15 minutes but often goes over so I plan on saying something to the effect that we have a full agenda and must keep to the 15 minutes. This will give him the chance to complain but also gives me the opportunity to say, "ok, next and done."

I have been speaking with potential replacements, past members, and it has been enlightening. They have universally said he was extremely difficult to manage during their tenure as well. Whew. Gives me courage and confirms that I am not the crazy one - well, maybe not this time anyway.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for all your good words. It has been extremely helpful!

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatriciaL1 on 03/04/2015 4:09 PM
Yup. I am working on my speech now. Once everybody has been seated before anything happens. "First off I want to acknowledge and accept RBM's resignation effective the date of post mark. We all are grateful for his many years of service and all the things he has done to help our community. He was there to pull us through some dark times when the buildings were not as well maintained and now we can say things are in pretty good shape. I wish him the best in whatever new paths he embarks upon. RMB, according to your letter of resignation you have some items to turn over to us. Please pass those on to our PM. We have already interviewed several homeowners as potential replacements. Feel free to contact the PM if you would like to be considered. Our decision will be announced shortly."

Short, sweet and to the point. Now we begin our homeowners forum. This is supposed to be limited to 15 minutes but often goes over so I plan on saying something to the effect that we have a full agenda and must keep to the 15 minutes. This will give him the chance to complain but also gives me the opportunity to say, "ok, next and done."

I have been speaking with potential replacements, past members, and it has been enlightening. They have universally said he was extremely difficult to manage during their tenure as well. Whew. Gives me courage and confirms that I am not the crazy one - well, maybe not this time anyway.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for all your good words. It has been extremely helpful!

Leave the above out. Let it go at recognition and thanks. The above can be handled later.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

When is your meeting, Patricia?

I have to run, but w/o a lot of thought, JohnC seems to be on target.

PatriciaL1 (California)
Posts: 78

Posted:

gotcha. I actually meant the "let us know if you want to be considered" for the remaining homeowners. Problem is he actually has a lot of stuff in his possession that we need - keys to the storage shed, sprinkler system, specs on roofs, paints, schedule for building maintenance - all stuff he would not hand out to us earlier when we asked, but now is willing.

Meeting is March 11. Doing my best to keep it above board, factual and level.

Always grateful for ideas, suggestions. Thanks

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

You're doing well, Patricia.

If the former rogue doesn't turn over the materials to your PM, you probably need to request them in writing. If he still resists, you probably need to have your HOA attorney send him a letter.

At th open forum you might want to announce with you begin it that homeowners present address their remarks and questions to you/the Board. Try as much as possible to avoid exchanges among the H/Os. If you don't have one, you might consider buying a gavel.

Let us know what else you're thinking and if anything new emerges.

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