proxies not returned

How can you count a ballot that is not cast? Seems to defeat the purpose of voting

If you are saying that proxies count toward a quorum, I would disagree Gregg. An unreturned proxy IMO shouldn't count toward anything.

A proxy is not a vote at all. It is simply a document authorizing someone to vote on your behalf. If you don't authorize someone else to vote, and you don't vote it is simply an abstention.

see: Do abstention votes count? from Roberts Rules of Order FAQs

NJ Appellate Division Rules Abstentions May Not Be Counted as “No” Votes

Telling someone that failure to vote or assign a proxy results in a vote is incorrect and, if it is being said by someone who should know better, in my opinion, shows incompetence and steps should be taken to remove that individual from having any authority.

Failure to vote, depending on what is needed to adopt (x% of membership or x% of votes cast), could have an impact on the proposal. What the impact is, for or against, would depend on the wording of the actual proposal.

Example: 100 eligible votes, 51 needed to pass, 50 yea, 40 nay, 10 abstain (non-votes)

Proposal: "Fire current MC" Due to needing 51 votes to pass, proposal fails and MC stays

Proposal: "Keep current MC" Due to needing 51 votes to pass, proposal fails and the current MC is to be fired

I certainly can be, if a certain percent is required for a change in the CCR's or some other requirement that requires a percentage spelled out in the Doc's such as a structual change, IS a no vote.

...and the competence of 'his' employer!

I'm wondering if the Mgmt. Co. example, even though meant as an illustration (I think!) is confusing to some readers, when discussing unsubmitted proxies.. The reason might be that H/Os' generally don't vote on whether to hire or fire MCs.

In Bonnie's case, I believe the H/Os were supposed to vote about whether to install a camera system in their condo building. I can only guess that the reason for the H/O vote was because the expenses would exceed whatever NE permits or Bonnie's own docs permit. Otherwise, I'd think the Board would decide on that issue.

Don't believe proxies are votes of any kind, or that by not returning a proxy an individual is voting a certain way. Do believe a proxy can be directed to authorize the holder of the proxy to vote a particular way on behalf of a homeowner.

A percentage of favorable votes to pass or enact something means YES votes actually cast, usually in person or by proxy. I understand where you are coming from Gregg. Understand by not voting you are in effect voting NO, but a NO vote has to be cast in some way to be an official vote.

If I don't go to the polls to vote for a particular candidate for Congress it doesn't mean I've voted for the other candidate.

I think those percentages may be off.
I believe that at least a simple majority didn't want either one.

WOW, I didn't think this would generate so many replies. I have been quite busy or would have responded sooner.
I did tell our PM that we can not count unreturned proxies with the majority. Our PM follows the direction of the Board. We may listen to his advise, but he follows our direction.

I wish we could have counted unreturned proxies with the majority then we may be getting security cameras.

Since the Board was not in agreement on security cameras I had a problem, because I could not tell our members that the Board recommended security cameras.

Also I agree with the posts that state an unreturned proxy is just like a no vote when a certain percentage of owners is required to pass a measure. We don't count it as a no vote. We just count how many voted no and how many voted yes.

In the case of the security cameras there were about 27% no vote and 42% yes vote. That totaled 69% (actually 68.????) 31% of the owners did not vote. If only 24% of the non votes would have returned the proxy delegating the vote to the association we would be getting security cameras. 24& would be from 10-12 owners.

Some items just need a majority of the people voting. In that instance unreturned proxies have no sway one way or the other in determining the outcome of the vote.

Granted, it's typical that only elections require secret ballots.

Why do you believe secret ballots should not be used?

Why should they be secret, there is no requirement of such?

Google is your friend!! Only in certain instances are they required.
(8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
(a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.
(b) If the governing documents permit voting by secret ballot by members who are not in attendance at a meeting of the members for the election of directors, such ballots must be placed in an inner envelope with no identifying markings and mailed or delivered to the association in an outer envelope bearing identifying information reflecting the name of the member, the lot or parcel for which the vote is being cast, and the signature of the lot or parcel owner casting that ballot. If the eligibility of the member to vote is confirmed and no other ballot has been submitted for that lot or parcel, the inner envelope shall be removed from the outer envelope bearing the identification information, placed with the ballots which were personally cast, and opened when the ballots are counted. If more than one ballot is submitted for a lot or parcel, the ballots for that lot or parcel shall be disqualified. Any vote by ballot received after the closing of the balloting may not be considered.

That is an easy one. If, based upon the CCR's, 2/3 of the owners much approval a particular change, the yes/no votes need to be kept up with so as to know if the "campaign" must be kept up to get the owners to vote. The most important issue to keep up with is, who has voted and who has not.
Just as a side note, why would an owner care if their vote was kept secret on issues that require a certain percent of approval? Keep in mind, these requirements are not set forth in elections, an election is much different than these types of votes.

We started discussing additional security measures before the 2014 annual meeting. The members voted for the Board to get bids for extra security measures. (Yes, I know the members did not need to vote to give the Board permission to get bids, but this was among many items our President at the time insisted the members vote on.)

I did have the property management team call the off site members who had not returned the proxies. It was an employee of the PM that told a member their vote would be counted with the majority even if not turned in.

This has been a learning experience for me since I plan on having a member meeting later this year to amend our documents. Our lawyer advised us to prepare all the amendments at one time and have a member meeting to vote on each amendment. I need to emphasize how important each persons vote is. Maybe I will post something on our bulletin board (even though I don't have the date yet) reminding the people who live here that we will be having an all member meeting later in the year.

Some have asked why the supermajority. Although I have recently studied the law and our documents to start to prepare for the next annual meeting, I don't remember if there is a requirement for a super majority for a large capital expense. I just would not be comfortable spending the large amount of money for additional security without a super majority. I do know that we are allowed to required a larger majority than the documents specify. I will be reviewing our documents and the law many times before the member meeting later in the yr.

Also I do not know how the other Board members voted. I just know that 3 of the Board members told me before the meeting they were not 100% in favor of spending money for extra security for the small items that have been stolen. I don't know how they twisted their thinking to consider an automobile to be a small item.

Bonnie, IMO, you should rely on your attorney to answer wether your docs or NE require (1) members to vote on certain items that will const more than xx% of your budget?
(2) If owners are required to vote on such an expense, what % of all owners is needed to approve the expenditure?

We directors may not solely try to use reason to answer these questions.

Also, imo, your Board should have voted on whether or not you wanted security cameras. Casual conversations do not count.

Gregg, Google definitely is my friend, but usually I rely on posters from the states involved to answer such questions. My interest often is casual or related to comparisons among states.

I'm pretty sure that in CA, we must wait until a duly noticed members meeting to open the secret, double-envelope ballots. We will never know who voted one way or the other. We WOULD keep track of who voted while we wait for such a meeting, and after some period of time send a "reminder" to those who hadn't voted.

But I'm not going to Google this tonight.

The extra of extra security measure was very popular with the owners at the last member meeting and for some time after. The problem came when the rubber hit the road and the cost was presented to the owners.

Most of the proxies that were not returned were from off site owners.

When I have more time I should be able to quote from our documents where it states percentages needed.

Keep in mind that I consider a vote tally to be x yeas and x nays and how a member voted as
Tim voted yea, Gregg voted nay