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Help - I'm a newbie - maybe??

Started by AnnS10 • 19 replies • 1871 views

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AnnS10 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Long story short –

My husband looked for months to find a few acres of land that was totally undeveloped and heavily wooded so he and our son could clear trails for 4 wheeling, have a camp fire, shoot the guns, etc… Man/boy time without game boxes or computers.

We found the perfect place – a large lot with a 600 acre orange grove on one side, a protected green belt on the other – down about 3 miles of dirt pathway - truly out in the middle of nowhere.

We had our realtor contact the selling realtor and made an offer they took right off the bat.

Now, about 3 months later we get a letter from a POA and a bill for dues??? NEVER, in all our realtor meetings, had anyone mentioned this land being part of a POA. I contacted our realtor last night and he told us it was NOT a part of one and the letter and invoice is all BS.

What do I do now? I feel I need them to recant this invoice.

Who do I contact to make SURE our property isn’t part of this POA?

THANK YOU!!
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Look at your deed. All POA/HOA's and what ever other OA must be recorded on the deed.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Go to the court house and look for any filed Articles of Corporation or Convenants and Restrictions. Unfortunately, Real Estate agents are not responsible for informing you of an HOA/POA nor of it's rules. No matter what mine or anyone's opinion is on the subject. Your best source is a PUBLIC source. Which is at you courthouse for that county.
Former HOA President
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Unfortunately, Real Estate agents are not responsible for informing you of an HOA/POA nor of it's rules. .

But your title company is
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
I believe Florida has a disclosure requirement (Florida Statute 720) and a form that realtors are responsible to provide and have signed by the buyer prior to purchase. Hopefully someone from FL will have more detail of how things work there. You should check at he courthouse for your county like others have said it's easy to do and would show anything recorded on your deed.
AnnS10 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you all for the wonderful information!

I will look on the deed and contact the title company as well!

Wow - I can't express enough my gratitude for all this help!
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Filings likely to be found at Recorder of Deeds, which may or may not be in the same building as the county courthouse.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
How many cases like this have occur, before this problem is addressed? Why isn't something universal implemented to make someone responsible for supplying this information to a buyer and accountable for their lack of action to do so? Seems to me it would prevent issues all the way around for everyone, cant' see any downside to having a buyer informed before purchasing. Not sure what the outcome will be for AnnS but I'm sure hear of a similar story very soon.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 02/20/2015 9:02 AM
How many cases like this have occur, before this problem is addressed? Why isn't something universal implemented to make someone responsible for supplying this information to a buyer and accountable for their lack of action to do so? Seems to me it would prevent issues all the way around for everyone, cant' see any downside to having a buyer informed before purchasing. Not sure what the outcome will be for AnnS but I'm sure hear of a similar story very soon.


Mandatory disclosure in PA - when requested. FL has it's own rules.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
http://www.worldwideerc.org/Events/Documents/Webinar-Presentations/Florida%20Seller's%20Real%20Estate%20Property%20Disclosure.pdf

Seems like you should have gotten something like that. But again, your title documents will tell you.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 02/20/2015 7:53 AM
Unfortunately, Real Estate agents are not responsible for informing you of an HOA/POA nor of it's rules. .


But your title company is

Mark pointed out the quickest way to find out. Look at your title insurance document and see what it lists with regards to documents attached to your property title. If it does NOT list any Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions then turn the info you received from the POA over to them to protect your rights. That is what you paid them for ...
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
I'm referring to mandatory disclosure of the fact that the property is in a HOA/POA, before purchase. I feel something universal is needed requiring a SIGNED disclosure statement by the buyer, stating that they are aware of the fact that the property is part of a HOA/POA. I know my state is lacking in this area, stories like this happen ALL THE TIME. Sometimes it's apparent that an HOA exists, sometimes not so easy, like in this case.
AnnS10 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I am taking ALL KINDS of notes and thank you again.

I will review all of this over the weekend and let you know what I find.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Ann,
I hope you find out that your property isn't tied to any POA/HOA since you clearly weren't shopping for that. Good Luck and hope your issue is easily resolved.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
see below letter which I actually used:

John S. Bernabeu
(address)

(phone)

(date)

(your county) Registrar of Deeds
(address)

Dear Sir/Madam:

I own lot xyz recorded in book xyz on page xyz in the xyz subdivision.

I would like certified copies of the Covenants and Restrictions, and the By-laws, on file or recorded against/with my deed:

I am a home owner and need official verification/documentation of any covenants actually on file.

Since I don’t know how many pages will need to be copied, would you contact me for payment (which will be immediate).

Thanking you in advance, I remain,

Sincerely yours,

John S. Bernabeu
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnS10 on 02/20/2015 7:38 AM

We found the perfect place – a large lot with a 600 acre orange grove on one side, a protected green belt on the other – down about 3 miles of dirt pathway - truly out in the middle of nowhere.

The three miles of dirt pathway may be the problem. Who owns it and who is responsible for maintaining it?

In my state there has been at least one recent appellate court opinion that holds that those who use a road over private property have a legally enforceable duty to contribute to its maintenance. Nothing in that ruling requires any formal organization nor does it require filing any sort of deed restrictions. It just requires the users to come to some sort of agreement as to how they will maintain the road and that each user may be compelled to contribute to the maintenance.

I have a rural 40-acre parcel in northern AZ and the developer formed a POA mostly to maintain about 300 miles of dirt roads. Without the association and mandatory memberships we would have 1600 owners arguing among themselves and suing each other.

So even if there are no deed restrictions or mandatory memberships set out in the deed, it may be possible that you have an obligation to contribute towards the maintenance of the dirt pathway. I would suggest doing some more research before blowing this off.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I would like certified copies of the Covenants and Restrictions, and the By-laws, on file or recorded against/with my deed:
>

My registry of deeds would simply reply with: Come down to the registry and we will show you how to look it up. We dont look things up for you.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
To search, start with your deed and work backwards looking up the previous deeds and names, etc. Usually online. If you have something in your deed that talks about restrictions, covenants, etc. you likely have some type of POA/HOA but you didnt realize it when you signed the deed. Live and learn.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 02/20/2015 4:04 PM
I would like certified copies of the Covenants and Restrictions, and the By-laws, on file or recorded against/with my deed:
>

My registry of deeds would simply reply with: Come down to the registry and we will show you how to look it up. We dont look things up for you.


Yup.

That's why Title Companies get paid
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
either way the OP will get the required data

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