Removing Patio Door Grids: Internal or External change?

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Our community homes were built with patio door that have the plastic grids that clip onto the inside of door.

Our CCRs do not allow for exterior changes without ARC permission. There is no mention of interior changes that affect exterior views (like I have seen with other HOAs).

Would removing these grids be considered and "exterior" change? We are permitted to add any type of window blinds or dressings without permission, so to me this seems similar.

Thank you.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Do you mean "fake" muntins (grid) to make the door look like individual panes of glass?

If you say they allow any type window dressing then I would expect you can remove the grids.

Our docs say all window dressings as seen from the street must be white or neutral in color.

Just ask the ACC.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/18/2015 12:59 PM
If you say they allow any type window dressing then I would expect you can remove the grids.

Our docs say all window dressings as seen from the street must be white or neutral in color.

I would reach the opposite conclusion HOA. Because the HOA has specs about inside stuff that's visible from the street, it's likely that removing the muntins would require approval.

I agree that the OP should ask the ACC.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

DO OVER:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/18/2015 12:59 PM
If you say they allow any type window dressing then I would expect you can remove the grids.

Our docs say all window dressings as seen from the street must be white or neutral in color.

I would reach the opposite conclusion John. Because the HOA has specs about inside stuff that's visible from the street, it's likely that removing the muntins would require approval.

I agree that the OP should ask the ACC.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

We had a go around in one townhouse association where an owner added french (swing) doors to her deck when all others had sliding patio doors. One of the deciding factors was the muntins the french doors had that the patio doors did not have thus making it obvious the doors were different regardless of swing/slide. It was starting to get nasty when she decided to sell. The BOD "struck a deal" with her and soon after, sliding doors were back in. She sold and moved on. A few months later the BOD came out with some ACC changes/modifications that could be made but one clarification was that only "clear" glass sliding doors to the patio were allowed.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I tend to agree with NpS, Terry, but if your HOA doesn't have standards for drapes and other window coverings, I don't see why they'd care. Still, better do it right.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

I would agree with NPS.

We also have double hung widows on which we require grids or 6 over 6 grids as they call them.

This gives the appearance from the outside of uniformity in all windows.
We also have sliding glass doors off our decks and again they need to be of the same size, color, material and appearance. No grids are allowed just clear glass panes.

My opinion anything that changes the view from the outside or makes any one widow or door stand out for the rest should be avoided.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Thanks for your replies. I will try and answer / respond to them:

- The background is that I received a violation notice for not having grids on my patio doors (which had not been there for 5 years). Our bylaws say that violation notices must cite our governing documents for the portion that relates to the violation. There was no citation included.

- I do not trust our ACC to know what the CCR's of our community are. He has already said that patio doors must have grids but was not able to cite anything other than exterior changes require approval.

- There is nothing in any of our governing documents that talks about changes that impact the view of the exterior it just refers to "exterior changes."

- Our Rules and Regulations specifically say that all "windows" must have grids. This can't refer to all "glass" because our storm doors have glass but cannot have grids. The rules and regulations do reference patio doors for other things, so it is not like they were not considered in the rules and regulations.

- As I said, there is no approval needed for window dressings - there are a wide variety in the community. Some homes even have the adhesive type of blurring sheets that cover the entire window.

Thanks again

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

In my opinion it's an external change because the door, unlike window dressings (aka drapes and blinds) is part of the house.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566

Posted:

I would have to agree that not having the grids would take away from the consistency of the exterior appearances of your residences (even more so than interior window treatments do). Although they're removable, when you drive through your community it adds a sense of harmony that seems to have been desired in your original governing documents.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566

Posted:

After re-reading your last post I realized that it's your Rules and Regs that mention the window grids. I still have the same opinion, but that's just my take on it. You say you had the grids off for 5 years with no one mentioning it as a problem, has anyone else in your community removed the grids? Are the patio doors in the back or front of the unit? are these doors visible from the street?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/18/2015 8:36 PM
- The background is that I received a violation notice for not having grids on my patio doors (which had not been there for 5 years). Our bylaws say that violation notices must cite our governing documents for the portion that relates to the violation. There was no citation included.

- I do not trust our ACC to know what the CCR's of our community are. He has already said that patio doors must have grids but was not able to cite anything other than exterior changes require approval.

- There is nothing in any of our governing documents that talks about changes that impact the view of the exterior it just refers to "exterior changes."

- Our Rules and Regulations specifically say that all "windows" must have grids. This can't refer to all "glass" because our storm doors have glass but cannot have grids. The rules and regulations do reference patio doors for other things, so it is not like they were not considered in the rules and regulations.

- As I said, there is no approval needed for window dressings - there are a wide variety in the community. Some homes even have the adhesive type of blurring sheets that cover the entire window.

- The failure to cite to the governing docs is a foregiveable error. The fact that you cited the all windows must have grids rule shows that you didn't need someone to point out the origin of the rule to you.

- There does not have to be a specific statement about impacting the exterior view. It can be implied.

- Apparently, the all windows must have grids rule has been interpreted as applying to patio doors but not applying to storm doors. The fact that storm doors cannot have grids could be the reason. Or the reason could be that there is a solid door behind the storm door so grid would only be slightly visible from the street. Don't really know enough about your situation.

- You make a good point about the adhesive sheets - they are often installed to increase insulation. If these are common in your community, then there are probably many patio doors without grids. Are you being singled out? Did everyone who has plastic sheets get a letter? They aren't particularly attractive and this may be the reason why the new enforcement is taking place. The best thing to do is talk to your neighbors and and to ask the ACC why the rule is being enforced now after 5 years of no enforcement.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

DO OVER:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/18/2015 8:36 PM
- The background is that I received a violation notice for not having grids on my patio doors (which had not been there for 5 years). Our bylaws say that violation notices must cite our governing documents for the portion that relates to the violation. There was no citation included.

- I do not trust our ACC to know what the CCR's of our community are. He has already said that patio doors must have grids but was not able to cite anything other than exterior changes require approval.

- There is nothing in any of our governing documents that talks about changes that impact the view of the exterior it just refers to "exterior changes."

- Our Rules and Regulations specifically say that all "windows" must have grids. This can't refer to all "glass" because our storm doors have glass but cannot have grids. The rules and regulations do reference patio doors for other things, so it is not like they were not considered in the rules and regulations.

- As I said, there is no approval needed for window dressings - there are a wide variety in the community. Some homes even have the adhesive type of blurring sheets that cover the entire window.

- The failure to cite to the governing docs is a foregiveable error. The fact that you cited the all windows must have grids rule shows that you didn't need someone to point out the origin of the rule to you.

- There does not have to be a specific statement about impacting the exterior view. It can be implied.

- Apparently, the all windows must have grids rule has been interpreted as applying to patio doors but not applying to storm doors. The fact that storm doors cannot have grids could be the reason. Or the reason could be that there is a solid door behind the storm door so grid would only be slightly visible from the street. Don't really know enough about your situation.

- You make a good point about the adhesive sheets - they are often installed to increase insulation. If these are common in your community, then there are probably many patio doors without grids. Are you being singled out? Did everyone who has plastic sheets get a letter? They aren't particularly attractive and this may be the reason why the new enforcement is taking place. The best thing to do is talk to your neighbors and and to ask the ACC why the rule is being enforced now after 5 years of no enforcement.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

LAST DO OVER - THEN I GIVE UP:

Quote:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/18/2015 8:36 PM

- The background is that I received a violation notice for not having grids on my patio doors (which had not been there for 5 years). Our bylaws say that violation notices must cite our governing documents for the portion that relates to the violation. There was no citation included.

- I do not trust our ACC to know what the CCR's of our community are. He has already said that patio doors must have grids but was not able to cite anything other than exterior changes require approval.

- There is nothing in any of our governing documents that talks about changes that impact the view of the exterior it just refers to "exterior changes."

- Our Rules and Regulations specifically say that all "windows" must have grids. This can't refer to all "glass" because our storm doors have glass but cannot have grids. The rules and regulations do reference patio doors for other things, so it is not like they were not considered in the rules and regulations.

- As I said, there is no approval needed for window dressings - there are a wide variety in the community. Some homes even have the adhesive type of blurring sheets that cover the entire window.

- The failure to cite to the governing docs is a foregiveable error. The fact that you cited the all windows must have grids rule shows that you didn't need someone to point out the origin of the rule to you.

- There does not have to be a specific statement about impacting the exterior view. It can be implied.

- Apparently, the all windows must have grids rule has been interpreted as applying to patio doors but not applying to storm doors. The fact that storm doors cannot have grids could be the reason. Or the reason could be that there is a solid door behind the storm door so grid would only be slightly visible from the street. Don't really know enough about your situation.

- You make a good point about the adhesive sheets - they are often installed to increase insulation. If these are common in your community, then there are probably many patio doors without grids. Are you being singled out? Did everyone who has plastic sheets get a letter? They aren't particularly attractive and this may be the reason why the new enforcement is taking place. The best thing to do is talk to your neighbors and and to ask the ACC why the rule is being enforced now after 5 years of no enforcement.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

I give up.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmandaR2 on 02/19/2015 5:53 AM
After re-reading your last post I realized that it's your Rules and Regs that mention the window grids. I still have the same opinion, but that's just my take on it. You say you had the grids off for 5 years with no one mentioning it as a problem, has anyone else in your community removed the grids? Are the patio doors in the back or front of the unit? are these doors visible from the street?

This is a townhouse community - all patio doors are in the rear of each unit. None are visible from the street. The last time I counted, 20% of homes were without patio door grids.

I understand that there is a possible argument that it makes the community look better (I disagree though), but I am more interested if it is a requirement. There are many things that we do that make the community look better, but are not a requirement - landscaping being a great example. We plant very nice flowers, but many people do nothing. I don't think those homeowners can be told that you must plant flowers simply because it looks better - there needs to be some type of documented requirement no?

If this was a window, we could simply point to our rules and regulations that say windows must have girds - end of story. I see nothing in our governing documents that indicate that patio door grids are a requirement. The only possible thing is a restriction on exterior changes. I just can't see how an interior plastic grid on a window can be labeled as an exterior element.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

NpS - thanks. I will take some of your points and reply:

"The failure to cite to the governing docs is a foregiveable error. The fact that you cited the all windows must have grids rule shows that you didn't need someone to point out the origin of the rule to you. "

How is this a forgivable error? Our bylaws specifically say that a violation notice must cite the related portion of our governing documents. This is crucial. This is the perfect example. The governing documents are lacking any direct entry on this requirement, and at best, some portion of the governing documents is being stretched to imply that the grids are required. As the person being fined, I must be told what part of the governing documents the BOD is looking at. It is a bit infuriating to be cited for a violation that is very iffy according to our governing documents, with a violation notice that clearly violates its makeup according to the governing documents.

"There does not have to be a specific statement about impacting the exterior view. It can be implied. "

If that is the case, then this should be cited in my violation notice. How else can I know whether I have the right to appeal or not if I have no idea how that BOD is interpreting our bylaws. If that is how they are interpreting it, then I have a very good argument because window dressings impact exterior views but do not require pre-approval. Again, this is why it is crucial to cite the governing documents as it relates to the violation.

"Apparently, the all windows must have grids rule has been interpreted as applying to patio doors but not applying to storm doors. The fact that storm doors cannot have grids could be the reason. Or the reason could be that there is a solid door behind the storm door so grid would only be slightly visible from the street. Don't really know enough about your situation."

I have no idea if that is what the interpretation is - it was not cited in my violation notice (common theme). The rules and regulations are easy to change, and are usually tweaked every year. How difficult would it be to say that Grids are required on all windows AND PATIO DOORS? The fact that it is not included in my interpretation means that they are not required on patio doors.

" You make a good point about the adhesive sheets - they are often installed to increase insulation. If these are common in your community, then there are probably many patio doors without grids. Are you being singled out? Did everyone who has plastic sheets get a letter? They aren't particularly attractive and this may be the reason why the new enforcement is taking place. The best thing to do is talk to your neighbors and and to ask the ACC why the rule is being enforced now after 5 years of no enforcement."

There are no violations for adhesive sheets. There are no violations for any of the myriad of different window dressings - just grids. I don't think I am being singled out - I suspect all the homes with missing patio grids were fined.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Terry

Look for something like "community standards" referenced in your Covenants. Typically in an association of townhouses and small patio homes (such as our association is) there is an effort made to control their appearances as in keeping them all the same. It is often impossible to define everything, thus the use of the expression "community standards" in our Covenants.

As an example. If your homes were all built with patio door grids then under our Covenants they would be considered the "community standard" though our Covenants never directly refer to window grids. As such we would rule that in keeping with "community standards", they must be installed.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/19/2015 7:25 AM
Terry

Look for something like "community standards" referenced in your Covenants. Typically in an association of townhouses and small patio homes (such as our association is) there is an effort made to control their appearances as in keeping them all the same. It is often impossible to define everything, thus the use of the expression "community standards" in our Covenants.

As an example. If your homes were all built with patio door grids then under our Covenants they would be considered the "community standard" though our Covenants never directly refer to window grids. As such we would rule that in keeping with "community standards", they must be installed.

Something like that could very well exist (I am pretty sure that it does.)

If this was cited in my violation notice then I would probably not dispute it. Its vague and a bit of a catch all, but it at least makes some sense. If something talking about "exterior change" or "windows also mean patio doors" was cited then I would appeal. The fact that the citation is omitted (which is a "black & white" violation of our governing documents) leaves me as a homeowner in an unfair position. It also causes controversy as other community members will pick up on this. If the "community standards" was cited, then it would be a clear indication that the Rules and Regulation need a slight change to include Patio Doors as to the elements which require grids and there will be no ambiguity in the future.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Hi Terry

Your earlier posts did not say that you were fined, only that you received a violation notice. That changes my thinking somewhat.
Rather than say it's a foregiveable error, I would say that it's a correctable error. You could object on the grounds that the citation was missing, and they could then give you that citation or fight you over it. Don't know enough about your situation to say much more. Some ACCs play nice and some don't.

Re your right to appeal. Isn't this stated somewhere in the docs you received from the HOA. While it would be nice for this information to be included in the violation notice, it may not be a requirement.

As I stated, the best approach is to talk to your neighbors and put your questions to your ACC. IMO, 5 years is a long time to let things go and then try to enforce. The fact that the patio doors are not street visible works in your favor. You can also make the argument that the rules and regs, which are usually tweaked every year, should have been cleaned up to eliminate confusion before issuing any fines.

Talk to some of the other owners who have missing patio grids. Then write your letter. You have good questions - they need to be directed toward the people who can answer them.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpS on 02/19/2015 7:58 AM
Hi Terry

Your earlier posts did not say that you were fined, only that you received a violation notice. That changes my thinking somewhat.
Rather than say it's a foregiveable error, I would say that it's a correctable error. You could object on the grounds that the citation was missing, and they could then give you that citation or fight you over it. Don't know enough about your situation to say much more. Some ACCs play nice and some don't.

Sorry - I should have been more clear. We received a violation notice. It did not cite the governing documents, so I asked that a new violation letter be sent. There was nothing sent and the due date passed and we received a fine. Our ACCs play nice with some and not so nice with others, but not really relevant to the situation I guess.

Quote:

Re your right to appeal. Isn't this stated somewhere in the docs you received from the HOA. While it would be nice for this information to be included in the violation notice, it may not be a requirement.

It was stated in the violation notice that we have the right to appeal. That is one of the five elements that must be included according to our bylaws. The five things are spelled out very clearly. One of them is that the appropriate governing document must be cited as it relates to the violation. As I have said, this was omitted, and as far as I am concerned makes any fine I receive unfair. How can I appeal if I do not know what regulation is being used against me. If I chose to appeal, I would get one chance, and if it that appeal I was first hearing about how the rules our being interpreted I would not be in a good situation to formulate an argument. That would be my only chance.

Quote:

As I stated, the best approach is to talk to your neighbors and put your questions to your ACC. IMO, 5 years is a long time to let things go and then try to enforce. The fact that the patio doors are not street visible works in your favor. You can also make the argument that the rules and regs, which are usually tweaked every year, should have been cleaned up to eliminate confusion before issuing any fines.

Talk to some of the other owners who have missing patio grids. Then write your letter. You have good questions - they need to be directed toward the people who can answer them.

Sometimes it is not worth the fight!

Thanks for all your great points.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/19/2015 8:48 AM

We received a violation notice. It did not cite the governing documents, so I asked that a new violation letter be sent. There was nothing sent and the due date passed and we received a fine.

Grounds to stand your ground if you decide to.

Quote:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/19/2015 8:48 AM

As I have said, this was omitted, and as far as I am concerned makes any fine I receive unfair. How can I appeal if I do not know what regulation is being used against me. If I chose to appeal, I would get one chance, and if it that appeal I was first hearing about how the rules our being interpreted I would not be in a good situation to formulate an argument. That would be my only chance.

Ask for the regulation again. And again until they answer your question. You have a right to know what you are appealing against. I disagree that you only have one shot. This requires a dialog - not a one shot response.

Quote:

Posted By TerryJ1 on 02/19/2015 8:48 AM

Sometimes it is not worth the fight! Thanks for all your great points.

Your call. You're welcome.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

A window is an opening in a wall, door, roof or vehicle that allows the passage of light and, if not closed or sealed, air and sound.

Since your patio door incorporates a window, and windows require grids............

D'OH

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/22/2015 1:44 PM

A window is an opening in a wall, door, roof or vehicle that allows the passage of light and, if not closed or sealed, air and sound.

Since your patio door incorporates a window, and windows require grids............

D'OH

If that is the case then 100% of the units in our community are in violation. Every home has a front storm door with a window in it - none with grids. I explained this in my response to the BOD and said I would accept their interpretation that glass incorporated in a door is considered a window, but I expect 200+ violation notices to go out informing people that they must put grids in their storm doors.

So....nice try.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

I will go one step further and add that a civilized, and mature BOD would accept that the rules and regulations were missing a simple inclusion that could remove all ambiguity. They could accept my argument because it is correct. All that is needed is a modification to the rules and regulations including patio doors and then as people replace these doors they will be required to have grids. In the meantime, the patio doors are all in the back of the property, whether grids are there or not is not even noticeable unless you are looking. It is a total non-issue except as with many HOA boards these issues are about exerting authority and ego. I say this in my case because I spent 4 years on this very BOD and know exactly how they operate. Its quite unfortunate because many homeowners have left the community strictly because of this type of situation.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Terry,

If you spent 4 years serving on your Board of Directors, you were certainly aware that you needed prior approval to make exterior changes.

Now, I agree, that if the patio door is in the rear of the property, then the request certainly should have been approved. Of course, that doesn't naygate the fact that approval wasn't sought and received.

Although your argument, in my opinion, is valid and the Board could accept it - they aren't required to. You may gather more support from the Board if you are willing to admit that you should have sought approval prior to the installation of the door. My suggestion is:

1) ask for a meeting with the Board.
2) Admit you made a mistake and remind them that you should have known better since you had previously served on the Board for 4 years.
3) Make your argument that the request, even though it is late, should be approved because the change is not visible from the street or other neighbors (of course if the door leads to a deck, leave the part about neighbors out).

Now, if you have already approached your Board with the issue and they turned it down, you may need to be a little more humble when representing your position.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/23/2015 2:02 PM
Terry,

If you spent 4 years serving on your Board of Directors, you were certainly aware that you needed prior approval to make exterior changes.

Its not an exterior change. The grids are interior elements in the same manner as the blinds we have on the patio doors which do not need approval.

Quote:

Now, I agree, that if the patio door is in the rear of the property, then the request certainly should have been approved. Of course, that doesn't naygate the fact that approval wasn't sought and received.

See above

Quote:

Although your argument, in my opinion, is valid and the Board could accept it - they aren't required to. You may gather more support from the Board if you are willing to admit that you should have sought approval prior to the installation of the door. My suggestion is:

Our bylaws state that any violation notice must cite the related governing document that relates to the violation. The violation letter I received did not include this. It is essential for me to appeal the decision that I know which part of our governing documents I am in violation of. We can speculate on here whether they are interior or exterior, but all that I care about is that I be told in writing which rule I am violating.

Quote:

1) ask for a meeting with the Board.

I asked for a proper violation notice. If I recieve that I may or may not appeal

Quote:

2) Admit you made a mistake and remind them that you should have known better since you had previously served on the Board for 4 years.

I didn't make a mistake (as far as I know)

Quote:

3) Make your argument that the request, even though it is late, should be approved because the change is not visible from the street or other neighbors (of course if the door leads to a deck, leave the part about neighbors out).

Now, if you have already approached your Board with the issue and they turned it down, you may need to be a little more humble when representing your position.

I ask for one thing from the board - I ask that our bylaws be followed when creating violation notices. Citing the related governing document is required and that was not given to me. That is the first thing that needs to happen.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I understand your position Terry.

I wish you luck.

Please keep us updated.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566

Posted:

TerryJ,
IMO you have made some very valid points. Reading through all the facts you have now presented I can see your point. Being in the back of your unit and not visible from the street, along with the many other points you make changes my viewpoint. I do wish you luck if you feel it's worth it to you to stand your ground and challenge the issue.

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Thanks all - I will let you know if any other developments come up.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

you may have a valid point re: selective enforcement

however

YOU are still in violation

(as well as 200 'others')

e.g.

you are following the flow of traffic at 14 mph over the posted limit

an officer stops you and writes a citation while many 'escape'

the citation WILL 'stick'

? selective enforcement ?

TerryJ1 (Maryland)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 02/28/2015 1:32 PM
you may have a valid point re: selective enforcement

however

YOU are still in violation

(as well as 200 'others')

e.g.

you are following the flow of traffic at 14 mph over the posted limit

an officer stops you and writes a citation while many 'escape'

the citation WILL 'stick'

? selective enforcement ?

Why is it that the definition of a window that you picked out is the correct definition? Here is a definition from dictionary.com that makes no mention of a "door."

noun
1.an opening in the wall of a building, the side of a vehicle, etc., for the admission of air or light, or both, commonly fitted with a frame in which are set movable sashes containing panes of glass.

another...

"an opening in the wall of a building or vehicle, usually covered with glass, to let light and air in and to allow people inside to see out"

another...

"An opening in the wall or roof of a building or vehicle that is fitted with glass or other transparent material in a frame to admit light or air and allow people to see out."

another...

"a : an opening especially in the wall of a building for admission of light and air that is usually closed by casements or sashes containing transparent material (as glass) and capable of being opened and shut"

Can I stop?

Obviously the definition of a "window" is ambiguous when it comes to glass on doors. The deciding factor is the way our rules and regulations are written and how they have been enforced. Given that at the front of every single home (200+), completely visible from the street, there exist a door with glass in it, that has no grids, that in the last 24 years no one has ever been asked to fix, I think we can safely assume that "windows must have grids" does not include doors.

Sure, if you want to make your argument that your definition is the correct definition and that really 200+ homes have been in violation for 24 years without being notified, you can. However, I think that the information I have provided makes a much stronger case that our HOA does not consider glass in a door to be a window.