Board wants key to condo and copy of insurance

The HOA board for our condo assoc. is asking from all condo owners, a key or contact person who has a key. Many of us think that this is not necessary info to give to them. If we don't comply, what can they do? Is there a law which states that this is necessary info for HOA boards? (this is in Arizona)

Also, the board is demanding that everyone supply them a copy (on an annual basis) of their homeowner's insurance policies. They want to have them to see if we have insurance money with which to pay for 1) the association's insurance deductible of $5,000, and 2) $10,000 to pay for any law suits against the association.

Are either of these something that the HOA board has a legal right to?

Carol what do your CC&Rs require for insurance? If they require you to have certain coverage that also protects the HOA, then yes they are entitled to proof the insurance is in place. If not then ask them to show you where it is required.

The contact person is IMHO smart, for a variety of reasons the least being they may need access to shut off water to mitigate damage to another condo.

Hi Carol

I applaud your board for taking proactive steps to assess and prepare for the risks that you face as a community. In an emergency, time is of the essence, and having a key or knowing who has a key could save a life. Also, knowing the levels of insurance can help your board make the right decisions about the association's insurance needs - rather than flying blind. The insurance companies will be fighting over which of them should be covering what loss - and your association it trying to assess their needs in the event that happens.

If I lived in a condo where a fire next door could affect my unit, I would be particularly concerned if my neighbor had no insurance at all. The association is working to protect you from this risk.

Is this a personal intrusion. Sure, but only a slight one. I would be more concerned if your association wasn't trying to protect the interests of the community - But I find what they are trying to do commendable. Their actions seem respectful and well thought out.

As others have said, the best place to find the answers to your specific questions is in your Declaration and Bylaws. Those should spell out the rights of your board. What action they can take against you if you don't comply should be spelled out in your rules and regulations.

There are at least two insurance policies involved - mine and the association's. Both of the insurance companies involved will attempt to shift responsibility to the other. If there is a third policy that should have been in place, but isn't, then I don't want to be there when the finger pointing gets underway.

I would agree with you if there was only one policy involved - but I am leery of multi-policy situations.

Having a key is critical in multi-story units especially due to any flooding that begins in a unit. Access to that unit is required to stop the water. Also other things could arise like smelling sewage, a deed body, hear crying/moaning, etc. You want people to be able to investigate. Call the local PD/FD and they may well hack the door down. Your out $500 when you could have given someone a key.

I do not know the ins and outs of condo insurance but just to show you how little some insurance agents know. We are standalone patio homes in an HOA. Our covenants call for the HOA to be a co-payee on your home insurance. Why you ask? Well it is to prevent you from running away with any insurance claim money and not fixing your house. All the time we get insurance agents saying they have never heard of such a thing and it is wrong. Our lawyer has a standard letter he sends the agents and it gets done.

Can't answer your insurance question, CarolA.

But in our higher rise twin tower condos, those who wish give a key to management for their units. this is voluntary. These keys are kept in a safe that our access control officers (ACOs), our chief engineer an management can enter. It's voluntary and of our 211 residential units, all but three provided a key or the combination to their front door lock (also kept in the safe).

There is a form that explains the reasons that the owner signs and agrees that the HOA can have this access. The text also explains that if in an emergency, the HOA doesn't have a key, the door can be broken down to gain entrance. It also states that if the source of that emergency is NOT that unit, the HOA will pay for repairs.

There's another signature line for those who opt out

Our most common emergency is water leaking or flowing into other units. IMO, Carol, you and your neighbors are wise to give a key to your HOA ASSUMING proper security measures and protocol are in place re: the key or combo.

There are times when a resident loses or forgets a key, In those cases an ACO will let them in. S/he enters on a sheet the time, etc., s/he removed the key and when it was returned. We directors see this list. I'd say we get about 5 cases a year of lost keys.

I just checked the CCRs and it says nothing about insurance other than requiring the HOA board to adequately insure the property.

The most recent bylaws state the following:
"2.05. Insurance deductible. All unit owners are obligated to include in their personal property insurance policy a rider to cover the $5,000 deductible in the Association's insurance policy with the current insurance provider."

So it seems that they would like these personal documents, however, they cannot legally designed.and them. For my insurance, I receive an annual Renewal Certificate from which shows all the covered items and amounts with costs. I am balking at providing my personal information to the board and asked my agent to provide with a document which has less information which I received. He, however, said if I were you, I wouldn't even provide that since there is no legal requirement to turn over personal information to the board, let alone to do so annually. He said I should write a note saying that I have insurance coverage and sign it ---that should be adequate for their needs.

As for the key, their appears to be nothing in the Restrictions nor bylaws regarding this. I have decided that I will provide them with the name of my brother who has a key.

I also want to mention that the members of the board are strangers to me and in the meetings are quite unfriendly and address the homeowners in a very rude manner. They may, as many of you say, be trying to protect all the units which I understand but right now I am leery of them - especially leery of giving them my personal documents and access to my home voluntarily.

I should add that this Association is a 50 unit 55+ and all units are one story.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Hi Carol.

Smart decision about your brother having a spare key.

Re your insurance, the question that the HOA is trying to answer is whether there is adequate insurance coverage among the various policies. They don't need to know how much your premiums are, and they don't need your personal information - but IMO the scope of coverage is not personal only. It could affect your rights and rights of others as community members. You can always blacken out any information that you consider personal.

Re your insurance agent, much depends on how you approached the conversation. If you said you don't trust the hoa, he is likely to say that you don't have to provide the info. But if you asked if they could have a legitimate reason for requesting the info, he might have explained the potential complexities that the board is trying to get a handle on. In truth, your agent will give you the answer you want to hear.

Re your unfriendly board. I have seen board members who smile to your face but cut you to pieces behind your back. I have seen board members who seem cold as ice, but are merely volunteers trying to do what they think is in the best interest of the community. As I stated in my first post, I think that your board is courageous for deciding to tackle a tough issue that was likely to create pushback. From what you wrote, these folks are willing to put their necks in the noose so to speak in order to accomplish something that appears to be in everyone's best interest.

I'm the last one who wants anyone in my business, and I have had my share of run-ins with my board - but I see nothing here that puts your privacy in jeopardy or puts your financial or physical safety at risk. In fact, I see the exact opposite. In your shoes, I would try to help them get this difficult job done even if I didn't know them or like them personally.

Whoa, I'd have a hard time sleeping at night on our travels if I knew that our staffers could not enter my home in case of a flood!! They are Not strangers an could save me and many of my neighbors for major damage. Sure, insurance, but what about inconvenience, etc.

As I said, all but 3 of our 211 units have keys in a safe opened only by trusted staffers.

Sure I have friends & neighbors--but what if they aren't home when the leaks begin?

Btw, Carol water an accomplish major gravity-defying feats including flowing horizontally. So if your single story units are attached, well....

(NpS--I'll find that form, but am short of time right now.)

Here you are NpS. Originally written by an attorney for another high rise, a version of it is everywhere in my high rise neighborhood.

Release Waiver and Indemnification Agreement

In a high rise community there is the potential for damage to your own, your neighbors’ homes and the Association’s common areas from, for example, a plumbing leak. Your Association needs a copy of your front door key for quick access for emergency repairs and your authorization to do so.

Failure to sign this form can expose you to liability in the event of loss and also could result in damage to your front door if the Association must break or cut it open for access.

I, an owner of a residential condominium at the xxx-xxx hereby grant
permission for entry into my residential condominium to the xxx-xxx Association and/or its Managing Agent for purposes of emergency repair for the benefit of the Association.

I understand that my key/combination is locked in a safe that only can be accessed by authorized managers, the chief engineer and access control officers.

I certify that I am a current owner, resident, invitee, family member or guest of xxx xxx xxx Association.

I understand that I am responsible for giving my key and any instructions regarding access, including alarm codes, to the xxx-xxx Association and/or or its Managing Agent. Should I change my locks or the alarm system code, I am responsible for providing the current key/information to the xxx-xxx Association and/or its Managing Agent as soon as the change is made.

To the extent that I lease my residential condominium, I agree to fully explain to my tenant that I have granted access to the xxx-xxx Association and its Managing Agent, and that I also have provided the above with a key and any alarm codes. Additionally, I will require them to provide a key if they replace the key that I gave to the Association.

______________________________________________________ _________________________ Signature of Homeowner/Tenant Date
____ I decline to sign the above agreement.
______________________________________________________ _________________________ Signature of Homeowner Date
______________________________________________________ __________________________ Emergency Contact Name Phone

WHAT?

JohnB, Thanks for that info, never heard of that lock system. That would make me feel much safer if I ever end up living in a condo and am asked to make that decision. Without that option I most certainly would be one of the few in Kerry's complex that doesn't sign the waiver and turn over a key to management.

I don't know too much about insurance other than our documents spell out the insurance the Association is to carry on the building and indicates that owners may carry insurance on the individual units.

But I agree with John 100% that having a key is critical in multi-story units. Each of our Board members have a master key, but there are only three causes for use to use the master key to enter a unit. One is in an emergency, two is if someone locks themselves out of the unit, and three if we have permission to show an empty unit to help the owner sell it.

All locks must be keyed to the Mater lock. If an owner changes lock, the owner must pay to have the key keyed to the Master Lock. The Pest Control company with a member of the PM company will enter an empty unit to spray. I will have to double check, but I believe the handbook for owners mentions the pest control company spraying.

JohnC, If that rude comment is directed towards me it's very uncalled for. I did not say I would have a problem making key available through neighbors, relatives or friends like some people in Kerry's condo have opted to do. I also said that the lock box mentioned by JohnB was a good idea. I don't feel it's stupid in fact I think it's quite the opposite. But thanks for your passing of judgment without knowing the reasons, it says a lot about yourself.

If it's not a legal requirement for me to give a key out, then I would not. I would gladly risk having to pay for the price of replacing a door taken down by the police or fire dept. in the case of an emergency, in the event that my insurance wouldn't cover it. That is my personal feeling on this issue. I respect anyone else's personal feelings on this issue.

they would put the combo in the lock box

p.s.

a locked steel door will merely delay fire entry by 10-20 seconds

THEY HAVE "BREACHING TOOLS" far far superior to any burglar's (their tools do not require concealment)

I meant NOT DOHing me!