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DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Sorry if this has been brought up before. Tried to search first, but to no avail.

Newly elected to our HOA Board. We have a Board member pushing us to switch to a "no cost" collection service. We currently pay for our collection service. Have been trying to find out the pros and cons of each system and whether it would be beneficial to switch. I know on the surface "no cost" looks good, but haven't been able to find out too many details.

Thanks.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Don it should all be no cost all costs of collection should be passed on to the collectee. We used to front the money to the collections attorney and recover it later. We changed to an attorney who specializes in collections and he adds all his fees and charges to what the member pays and we only receive the amounts in arrears.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Don it should all be no cost all costs of collection should be passed on to the collectee. We used to front the money to the collections attorney and recover it later. We changed to an attorney who specializes in collections and he adds all his fees and charges to what the member pays and we only receive the amounts in arrears.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DonA2 (Arizona)
Posts: 170
Posted:
I think that is the method that is being considered here. Like I said, I'm not familiar with the pros and cons of each. I like the sounds of the "no-cost". But wasn't sure what would be the best for the community. I don't like how much we are spending on collections, but and hesitant to agree to a switch without more data.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 02/17/2015 1:13 PM
Don it should all be no cost all costs of collection should be passed on to the collectee. We used to front the money to the collections attorney and recover it later. We changed to an attorney who specializes in collections and he adds all his fees and charges to what the member pays and we only receive the amounts in arrears.

Glen
Are you saying that the lawyer doesn't get paid til he collects? Or that you pay him, and you are reimbursed out of what he collects?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The member is probably trying to reduce the costs the Association has to pay to pursue the delinquency, which is why your policy should state that the homeowner is responsible for reimbursing those costs as well as the delinquent assessments.

I've seen ads from various collection agencies who talk about doing the work at no cost for the association (the homeowner would have to pay them), but it may take a very long time for them to collect and in the meantime the Association has bills to pay. If you're thinking of going that route, best to get one who either specializes in HOA collections or has a lot of experience with it (and if course, you'll have to check their references).

From what I've seen one advantage to using a collection agency is that they can report the delinquency to one or all of the Big Three credit reporting agencies - when that shows up on the homeowner's credit report, it could affect his/her ability to get new credit and a job in a few cases. That may have more of an immediate impact than a lawsuit which could take years to collect on (if at all, but you might want to do it anyway because the lawsuit will eventually land on the report). It's not a sure thing, so do your homework.

In the end, the Association will have to spend some money on this, specially if the collection agency's efforts fail and you have to turn the account over to an attorney , but you can get that back from the homeowner, so be sure he or she asks for court costs and attorneys fees as part of any lawsuit. You may be able to reduce some costs by finding out what it costs to place a lien against the house and make sure whoever prepares the paperwork knows what he/she is doing. If the homeowner declares bankruptcy, you'll need to file a proof of claim with the court and once again, whoever fills out the paperwork needs to be mindful of the requirements and deadlines.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/17/2015 1:34 PM
From what I've seen one advantage to using a collection agency is that they can report the delinquency to one or all of the Big Three credit reporting agencies - when that shows up on the homeowner's credit report, it could affect his/her ability to get new credit and a job in a few cases. That may have more of an immediate impact than a lawsuit which could take years to collect on (if at all, but you might want to do it anyway because the lawsuit will eventually land on the report). It's not a sure thing, so do your homework.

One of the reasons we have stayed away from using a collection agency is that we can become liable for not removing negative information on a credit report quickly enough. We don't like relying on a third party who may be too aggressive on the front end or too lax on the back end.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I can't see any reason to pay a collections agency or to sell delinquent HOA accounts to a collection agency when states have collections laws that generally hold account holder liable for reimbursing the HOA's legal costs directly related to dues non-payment.

While there may be an up-front expense with hiring a collections attorney, the HOA will be reimbursed later with the collection proceeds. The HOA board should try to cut corners on legal fees/costs for actions directly sparked by an account-holder's payment default.

Or am I missing something?
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 02/17/2015 4:14 PM
I can't see any reason to pay a collections agency or to sell delinquent HOA accounts to a collection agency when states have collections laws that generally hold account holder liable for reimbursing the HOA's legal costs directly related to dues non-payment.

While there may be an up-front expense with hiring a collections attorney, the HOA will be reimbursed later with the collection proceeds. The HOA board should try to cut corners on legal fees/costs for actions directly sparked by an account-holder's payment default.

Or am I missing something?

One more thing....HOA "debt" is secured debt.

Collection agencies generally handle unsecured debt (credit cards, etc.)

Also, why worry about a property owner's credit agency rating when all the HOA board and organization seeks is dues payment?

I am most definitely missing the point on the original poster's HOA board philosophy regarding dues collections.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
We pay the legal fees for the collections as they occur. However, those "costs of collection" are added to the amount owed by the member.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 02/17/2015 1:31 PM
Posted By GlenL on 02/17/2015 1:13 PM
Don it should all be no cost all costs of collection should be passed on to the collectee. We used to front the money to the collections attorney and recover it later. We changed to an attorney who specializes in collections and he adds all his fees and charges to what the member pays and we only receive the amounts in arrears.

Glen
Are you saying that the lawyer doesn't get paid til he collects? Or that you pay him, and you are reimbursed out of what he collects?

Np, his fees are added to what he collects. Example:

Late assessments - $1,000.00
Late fees - $ 105.00
Lien fee - $ 40.00
Lien release - $ 40.00
Attorney fee - $ 500.00
Total - $1,685.00

Attorney collects and forwards $1,105.00 to HOA, keeps $580.
In addition if it gets to the foreclosure stage, OH law allows the HOA to apply for a receiver and collect rent from the homeowner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 02/17/2015 10:32 PM
Np, his fees are added to what he collects. Example:

Late assessments - $1,000.00
Late fees - $ 105.00
Lien fee - $ 40.00
Lien release - $ 40.00
Attorney fee - $ 500.00
Total - $1,685.00

Attorney collects and forwards $1,105.00 to HOA, keeps $580.


If those were our numbers, we would pay attorney $540 (attorney fee plus lien fee). We would charge these fees to the HOs account.

Then when attorney receives payment and releases the lien, he would keep the $40 for the lien release, and send the other $1,645 to us.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonA2 on 02/17/2015 1:06 PM
We have a Board member pushing us to switch to a "no cost" collection service. We currently pay for our collection service. Have been trying to find out the pros and cons of each system and whether it would be beneficial to switch. I know on the surface "no cost" looks good, but haven't been able to find out too many details.

At first glance I am curious why you are employing collection agencies at all? Why are liens and civil judgments not sufficient remedies?

I would use a great deal of caution in hiring a no-cost collector. He most likely intends to take his fees as a percentage. But here is the problem: he will take his fees - all of his fees - off the top. If he charges 1/3 to collect a debt of, say, $10,000 he is going to pocket the first $3,333 he collects. Once he has collected his percentage, he has no incentive to pursue the account any further. You will then have to either forget about the balance of the debt or hire another collection agency and repeat the whole process until the balance is so minute it becomes unworthy of collection.

My experience has been that no business collects 100% of its debts 100% of the time. My guess is that paying for collections has not really netted you anything. A debt is money that has never been in your possession. Spending the hard, cold cash you do possess in order to collect a debt is risky at best. Sometimes the most effective course of action is to just forget about it and move on.

Do not forget who you are dealing with when you hire a collector. You're not going to find too many Harvard MBA's working the phones; you will find a lot of worthless trash that you would never let into your home. They are low-lifes who would slit your throat for the change in your pockets. You and your fellow board members are sitting ducks to these people. Steer clear of them.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The law firm we use for our HOA also has an active dues collection division which we use.

Basically it is a multi step collection process and they charge the past due owner their fees plus what the association is owed. Recent case. We were owed $600.00 but the attorney fees were $485 so the person had to pay $1,085 to have the lien removed. The association received $600.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 02/18/2015 1:45 AM
But here is the problem: he will take his fees - all of his fees - off the top. If he charges 1/3 to collect a debt of, say, $10,000 he is going to pocket the first $3,333 he collects. Once he has collected his percentage, he has no incentive to pursue the account any further.

Have never heard of this. Collection agencies to my knowledge get their percent of what they collect only. So if they collect only $3k, they keep only $1k in your example.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 02/18/2015 6:02 AM

Have never heard of this. Collection agencies to my knowledge get their percent of what they collect only. So if they collect only $3k, they keep only $1k in your example.

I agree that is the way it should work but I have heard of collection agencies taking their fees up front as I described.

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