Questionable election procedures

Started by TinaO • 17 replies • 1819 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TinaO (Illinois)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I live in an 88 unit townhome community. We have lived here for 2 and a half years and been through two elections. Having lived in a condominium community previously where they did send out the names of the people who wanted to run for an election, I have seen where I am living now that that practice is not done. We do get a notice (30 days prior to the election), a proxy and a ballot form if we choose to run for the board but we do not know who is running for the board until the night of the election. My question is, can my current HOA do that?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why not? My HOA if you ended up attending the Yearly Election meeting and put your hand up, you were elected. Of course, the board then voted amongst themselves who got the officer positions. Elections in my opinion can be handled in a variety of ways mostly dependent on your HOA's culture. What works for one does not work for all. I'd say run if you want to and make that a change. Good luck!!!

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Tina,

Welcome to the forum. The statues that would be applicable to your Association would be:

The IL Common Interest Community Association Act, 765 ILCS 160

IL General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986, 805 ILCS 105, applicable if your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit (most are but check to be sure)

I saw nothing in those statutes that require the notification of who is running (however, I may have missed it).

I agree that announcing the known candidates would be expected and pass the common sense test. However, perhaps the Board simply didn't know who was running at the time of the mailing. Perhaps the Board chose to do it this way because nobody was willing to volunteer to draw up a better proxy and notice form.

Have you asked your Board why they didn't announce the names of the candidates? If you did, what how did they respond?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

The letter accompanying our proxies for the annual meeting usually state who's running for re-election and the proxy has a space where homeowners can nominate themselves or someone else for the board. Since I've been here (14 years), we rarely have other people nominate themselves or other homeowners through the proxy - or from the floor, for that matter.

During the meeting, the president will ask for nominations from the floor and the letter states those folks should attend the meeting and be prepared to tell a little about themselves and why they're interested in serving, so people can ask questions before a vote is taken. As long as your meeting agenda allows time for such a Q and A, you may be ok (just be sure to sit in on a few meetings afterward so you can get an idea of what type of people are serving.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TinaO (Illinois)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I do have some homework to do.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

All

Our BOD is debating this exact issue as we chat. We are having our 1st BOD election (04/28/15) under owner control We do not need to nor will we have mail in ballots. Voting will be via proxy and balloting at the Annual Meeting.

We have been talking the election up in our monthly newsletter (reaches 65% of our owners). We will publish the names and resume of anyone that throws their hat in the ring in the newsletter. We will also provide a copy of our owners mailing list to anyone that runs so they can do their own mailing.

Our BOD is "deciding" if we should do a mailing in early April with the names of the candidates and a contact method (the candidate will tell us how) or not do a mailing.

I am asking your thoughts on us doing a mailing.

Thanks

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Depending on how many candidates you have, it may be easier to toss everything in the newsletter to save time and money. However, if 35% of your homeowners don't get the newsletter, you may have to go with the mailing to ensure everyone gets the information. Set a deadline for would-be candidates to enter and get their information to you so you won't hear any shouting about "you didn't put MY information in the newsletter or mailing..."

Some of your homeowners may object to their name going on a mailing list, so before you give this to the candidates, you may want to give people a chance to opt out if they want. You should also get a written pledge from the candidates that they won't rent or sell the list for any reason to anyone. If THEY object to that, let the candidate get a map of the community with the addresses or walk around and gather them up and send out the information.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Well, JohnC, as you know I strongly encourage your board to do the earlier mailing to EVERY (not 65%) owner with the "known" candidates names & brief bio for each. (But why a "contact method"?)

I think it shows your memberships that your new Board is transparent and willing to be open about everything that H/O's should rightful expect to know.

I still do not comprehend why you don't want to spend this tiny amount in postage to encourage as much participation as possible.

I agree with Tim that sending out the names passes the "common sense" test.

Tina, looks like your HOA can withhold known candidates' names in advance of the annual meeting and election. The question is why would they do that? Do they strike you as secretive?

TinaO (Illinois)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Kerry, please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you say they can withhold candidates names? They are actually holding the names until the night of the election, that is the question I need to ask them. And yes, they do strike me as secretive.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm basing this on Tim's interpretation of IL codes, above, which do not seem to require that the Board give you the candidates' names in advance of the annual meeting. I did not rad Tim's citations, but I think you want to.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Tina

Not being required to provide candidates names prior to the election is not the same as with holding them, being secretive, cheating, hiding, etc.

An opposing view says if nominations are allowed from the floor then there can never be a "complete" ballot until the actual election time and any such ballot sent out before could be "misleading".

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Well, I had more time to do some research and it appears that the Board is to notify the membership of the names of the candidates known at the time of the mailing. However, this might only apply when the Board offers electronic voting. Truthfully, I'm a bit too tired to go through it to be sure.

See 765 ILCS 160/1-25 (i):

(i) The association may, upon adoption of the appropriate rules by the board, conduct elections by electronic or acceptable technological means. Members may not vote by proxy in board elections. Instructions regarding the use of electronic means or acceptable technological means for voting shall be distributed to all members not less than 10 and not more than 30 days before the election meeting. The instruction notice must include the names of all candidates who have given the board or its authorized agent timely written notice of their candidacy and must give the person voting through electronic or acceptable technological means the opportunity to cast votes for candidates whose names do not appear on the ballot. The board rules shall provide and the instructions provided to the member shall state that a member who submits a vote using electronic or acceptable technological means may request and cast a ballot in person at the election meeting, and thereby void any vote previously submitted by that member.

Please make sure you read the whole section using the link I provided earlier in this thread and not just the paragraph above.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Nice resource, Tim! I am NOT tired, but it's a little murky, but looks as though all owners will receive the names of the known candidates at least 10 days , can vote electronically, but can change their vote at the election meeting is they wish.

This sounds really civilized!! But, as Tim advises, make sure you read the whole section. Context is everything!

JohnC, no one on your previous posts on this topic has agreed with your "concern" about someone being nominated from the floor having a chance to win IF known candidates' names are mailed out in advance. And, you say, if names are sent out in advance, with the caveat "KNOWN" names, and even an explanation about what "known" means, your mythical nominee from the floor would never have a chance to be elected. the mailing would somehow be "misleading"?

Well, as others have noted elsewhere, none of us have ever heard of a nominee from the floor winning an election. Indeed, most of us never see a nominee from the floor at the election meeting.

I can only conclude, JohnC, that you have something up your sleeve that you're not revealing to us. You've often praised those who "outfox" other candidates or even all homeowners by slightly odious methods. Having seen your affection for such methods in writing, I think you're up to something.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 02/09/2015 11:25 AM

Well, as others have noted elsewhere, none of us have ever heard of a nominee from the floor winning an election. Indeed, most of us never see a nominee from the floor at the election meeting.

My Association has typically had nominees from the floor. Additionally, those nominees are typically elected unless there was an actual full slate of candidates prior to the election. In fact, one year we had a write-in non-nominee from the floor win (a group at one table thought that this individual would make a good Director). We contacted the member, explained that they had won with a write-in vote and asked if they wanted to serve. They chose to serve and helped the Association a lot.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Kerry

I admit I often look for other ways to skin a cat.

The reason I am looking long and hard at our election procedure is as this is our first election, I think we are setting the "tone" for the future of our association. How I handle things is dependent on my situation. Being on the BOD and charged with running an election and being responsible for the overall good of the association is one situation. Mess with or try and trick me personally is another situation. I can be one sneaky, conniving SOB. Comes from my many years in sales, marketing, and politics. I love smoke filled rooms...LOL

The one thing I am not publically talking about is nomination from the floor. The BOD is aware such exists. We are prepared to properly handle such, but we are not "trumpeting" that such method exists. It is in the Bylaws. Let others find it for themselves.

I readily admit some on here (you and Tim especially) have convinced me the BOD should be a bit more proactive (such as mailing a list of candidates out prior to the election) then I had originally believed we should be. I think I thank you both.....LOL

Personally I do not want to remain on the BOD. If at least 3 of our present BOD Members who I expect will run do run, then I see no need for me to run even if the BOD is short. If there is an effort to elect some of our Chief Complaining Officer's (of which I hear rumors about) then I would consider running. Sort of like taking a job promotion that you may not really want but you need to protect yourself from someone else getting it and becoming your boss. A common business practice.

I assure you that I am looking out for the best interest of our association. I want the election open and above board.....at least for now.......LO

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 02/09/2015 1:07 PM
Personally I do not want to remain on the BOD. If at least 3 of our present BOD Members who I expect will run do run, then I see no need for me to run even if the BOD is short. If there is an effort to elect some of our Chief Complaining Officer's (of which I hear rumors about) then I would consider running. Sort of like taking a job promotion that you may not really want but you need to protect yourself from someone else getting it and becoming your boss. A common business practice.

John

Your board is just coming into its own. The training wheels are coming off. This is not the time for you to decide to sit back. As capable as you may think your fellow board members are, they need your common sense to be part of the dialog and vote.

Better you should set a target for coming off the board. I have set mine - I will stay on until we repave our roads. Then I'm gone. And if we delay our repaving too many years, I will let everyone know that I do not intend to run and I will ask if I can spearhead the repaving project as a non-board member.

Having an achievement target rather than a date target for getting off the board is IMO a good idea for everyone. It doesn't lock you into a date certain, but it does focus your attention on succession planning.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

NPS

Thank you for your suggestions/compliments.

I have been on the Advisory BOD (Declarant appointed) prior to and during the transition to we owners on 01/01/2014. I agreed early to help in the transition and to be on the BOD until the Annual Meeting on 04/28/2015. Heck, I signed half the transition documents...LOL

I am not saying no to remaining on the BOD. I am saying that while I prefer not to be, under the right (actually maybe the wrong) circumstances, I will run for election.

I have had a few sidebar discussions with members of the BOD about staying active as a Committee Chair.

I will wait until I see which way the wind is blowing before making my final decision.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Thank you for the clarification, JohnC! At least I think it was a clarification. I do know you've been in involved in 3-5 other HOAs previously so you aren't a novice.

Oh, Tim, of course, nominations form the floor work if there are enough candidates.

I've set an achievement target too and then I'll resign from my Board. It's a quirky & odd financial matter that benefits some owners way more than others and is not justified by our governing docs. I keep getting closer and have partially resolved it.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here