HOA Automatic External Defibrillators (AED)

I was a goner 3 years ago. Turned grey. Keeled over. Luckily there was an AED in the room. No one knew how to use it. They used it anyway. It kept me going til the EMTs got there. Got whacked 5 times that night to get my heart restarted. 2% chance of survival. In a coma for a week. Hospital had me on ice the entire time.

Now, every time I walk into a building, my eye automatically scans for an AED. I am seeing them more an more in places I never expected - like a grocery store.

The cool thing about the design of the AED is that there is no expectation that a person who tries to use it knows what to do. As soon as you open the case, a voice instructs you step by step what to do.

We do not have a common meeting place in our HOA, but if we did, I would recommend getting an AED. I would also recommend a CPR demonstration at a HOA meeting.

Our HOA insurance company recommends an AED in any HOA with a clubhouse, pool, etc. No effect on premiums.

I believe that every state has a good samaritan law that shields people who try to save a life from liability.

I think that you are right - your HOA lawyer is out of touch with the modern realities.

See these articles:

This one says doctors are protected under GS laws in NY, CT, PA, and NJ. Standard is good faith, reasonable care, and no expectation of compensation. Excluded from protection are gross, willful, or wanton negligence.

http://www.emccprtraining.com/blog/post/how-do-good-samaritan-laws-work

This one says doctors are protected in TN except in case of gross negligence. Also, possibly no duty to render assistance.

http://www.tntlaw.net/articles?id=61937

VERY COOL SITE.
EVERYONE SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.
THX DR.Z AND WELCOME.

A rare SERIOUS reply based upon a resolved debate in my HOA (long but necessary):

An AED is NOT a good thing for SFHOA, Inc. because:

All 50 states have Good Samaritans laws designed to protect companies that choose to deploy AEDs. These laws reduce or eliminate the fear that people who help others could suffer legal repercussions. To receive protection under the Good Samaritan laws, a company must prove they meet all operational requirements for the deployment of an AED Program.

It is important to know what your specific state laws are to determine if Medical Direction is required in your state. Most states require that that medical direction be part of the overall AED plan. Medical Direction will provide a number of essential features to you including reviewing your policies and procedures and making sure adequate training is provided, consulting on AED placement, and EMS Notification.

The maintenance of an AED is minimal but it is very important to have a system in place that tracks this maintenance. The majority of malfunctions in AEDs are due to improper maintenance or battery failure.

AEDs, while easy to use, require ongoing management and maintenance. In addition to training volunteers, a well-designed AED Program includes testing and maintaining your device(s) – a critical and overlooked factor in deploying AEDs in organizations. Whether you have 1 AED, or are a large organization with multiple AEDs deployed, you should have a Medical Oversight and Management program in place. Taking this step ensures that your AED(s) are always maintained, in compliance, registered with local EMS, and are ready for use should they be called upon.
AEDs have accessory parts (batteries and electrodes) that have expiration dates that must be tracked and addressed prior to expiration.

The most important aspect of any AED program is an active system of controls and maintenance protocols that will continually monitor overall compliance and readiness.

It is important to determine your budget early and be sure to include any accessories such as: spare pads (optional), spare batteries (optional), AED cabinet or wall bracket, CPR and AED training (required), Medical Direction (required in some states), long term costs (replacement pads and batteries, refresher training).

Replacement pads (electrodes) and batteries must be replaced at the appropriate time. AED pads are comprised of tin and an adhesive gel which allows the pads to stick on the victim’s chest. Over time, the tin will eat away at the gel and the gel will lose its adhesive properties. For this reason, pads have a fixed expiration date stamped on the package. These pads should be replaced prior to expiration to ensure that they will do their job when the AED must be used.

Batteries do not have a fixed expiration date, but they have a normal life expectancy. A battery’s life can be shortened or prolonged by several variables, including temperature, factory self-tests and usage.

It is of utmost importance that your AED be maintained properly to ensure that these expiration dates are managed closely.

 {page break} 

AS PER: http://www.aeduniverse.com/AED_Laws_by_State_s/97.htm#Southcarolina

{QUOTE}South Carolina
Section 44-76-30 of South Carolina’s Code
A person or entity that acquires an AED shall:
1. Require its designated AED users to have current training in CPR and AED use by the American Heart Association, American Red Cross, or National Safety Council;
2. Maintain and test the AED according to the manufacturer’s operational guidelines and keep written records of maintenance and testing;
3. Employ or obtain a healthcare professional to serve as its AED liaison;
4. Have in place an AED program approved by its AED liaison which includes CPR and AED training, AED protocol or guidelines, AED deployment strategies, and an AED equipment maintenance plan;
5. Include in its AED protocol or guidelines that a person who renders emergency care or treatment to a person in cardiac arrest caused by ventricular fibrillation/tachycardia by using an AED must activate the emergency medical services system or 911 as soon as possible;
6. Report any clinical use of the AED to the AED liaison.
Any person or entity acting in good faith and gratuitously shall be immune from civil liability for the application of an AED unless the person was grossly negligent in the application.
Any designated AED users meeting the requirements of Section 44-76-30(1) and acting according to the required training shall be immune from civil liability for the application of an AED unless the application was grossly negligent.
A person or entity acquiring an AED and meeting the requirements of Section 44-76-30 or an AED liaison meeting the requirements of Section 44-76-30 shall be immune from civil liability for the application of an AED by any person or entity described in items (1) or (2) of this section.{END QUOTE}

I've had CPR and AED training on my job and when I was recertified last year, I was told there's been a push towards teaching people hands only CPR (the chest compressions). Here's an information page from the American Heart Association website for more information.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/CPRAndECC/HandsOnlyCPR/Hands-Only-CPR_UCM_440559_SubHomePage.jsp

Perhaps you can contact your local chapter and see if they could come out and do a training or if there's a poster available that can be put up somewhere in the clubhouse.

That is the strongest argument you could make AGAINST having one of these devices in the hands of an HOA or condo association. It is one more thing that will never get done and even the proponent says "they can be sued (as they should be)" if the device is not maintained. And the one thing that can be guaranteed is that an AED will not be maintained.

I was taught an important lesson by a friend to owned a club that taught fencing (sport). His mindset was not based on how to keep from being sued. He expects to be sued at some point in time. Therefore, he takes steps to minimize his liability when he is sued.

I think that many individuals look at issues based on "how to we keep from being sued" vs. "how can we minimize our liability when we are sued." Living in the litigious society we live in, it may be prudent to think the latter, as we all know a good attorney will name everyone who may have any responsibility at all and let the courts work it out or simply hope the individuals settle vs. fight the issue (as it may be more cost effective).

As for AEDs, personally, if my Association had a clubhouse, pool or gym, I would look into the aspects of getting an AED.

Yes, I would gather a legal opinion concerning the Associations exposure to liability if we had one and if we chose not to have one. However, that would be only so I could be informed of the risks vs. benefits.

If we had one, I would encourage the Association to host training classes (by an outside certified instructor) in the use of the device on a regular basis (perhaps quarterly).

The key point is that having an AED may mean the difference between life and death.

Since you may be sued regardless of the outcome and regardless if you had an AED or not, perhaps it's best to ask how can the Association minimize their liability when they are sued if someone is injured and lives or injured and dies on Association property.

From the front page of the Sudden Cardiac Arrest Foundation website at http://www.sca-aware.org/

About Sudden Cardiac Arrest

Sudden cardiac arrest affects more than 1,000 people outside hospitals each day in the U.S. and only 10 percent survive. When bystanders provide CPR and use automated external defibrillators before EMS arrives, about 40 percent of victims survive. If the national survival rate increased to 40 percent, about 100,000 additional people could be saved each year.

-----------------

Deaths from sudden cardiac arrest are about 10x more frequent than deaths from breast cancer and about 11x more frequent than deaths from automobile accidents.

Motor vehicle deaths in the US peaked at around 55k in 1972 and are now down to around 34k per year. Seat belts were first introduced in cars in the mid-50s as an option. At the time, car manufacturers were afraid of the potential liability from admitting that cars could be unsafe. Under Fed law, seat belts became mandatory in 1968. The first state that made wearing a seat belt mandatory was NY in 1984. By 1995, all states had seat seat belt laws.

The fear of liability for having seat belts became a fear of liability for not having seat belts.

As AED technology progresses and people get past their fears, the AED and CPR tide will also turn. I agree with Tim that now is the time to learn what you can - it could save a life.

LarryB13,

Arizona AED Statute:



Limited CORPORATE 'shielding' unless meticulously maintained equipment.

Almost identical to South Carolina

Thanks Kerry. How often have your AED's been used? What result?

You are right, JohnB--I had it backwards! Always call 911 first! My apologies.

Our AED never has been used NpS, but many are very glad it is here. My understanding is that a few owners also keep one in their condos.

As I wrote above, JohnB, our board weighed the tiny chance of our HOA's possible liability vs. the tiny chance we might save one life. We opted for the latter.

As Dr. Z. teaches us and as our residents learn in our annual seminar (which includes CR training), the AED will not shock the person unless the device detects the "right" kind of cardiac event.

Sorry I can't stick with this exchange, there's a wrap or something and some replies spread out waaaaay too much.

typo; CP should read CR

Until it actually is answered the assumption of corporate risk by an HOA is unwarranted for the very slim potential benefits.

The main benefit of an AED in a HOPA community run by senior volunteers would be the good feeling of having the device visible. IMO: It will never be properly maintained including pads.

Its presence WILL delay / interrupt the 'band aid' of CPR / CR.

If I were alone and responding I would dial 911, put the phone on speaker, check/clear air way (in case of actual revival) and start 'pumping' rhythmically until I dropped from exhaustion or help arrived.

Pray that I am your first responder (unless an ambulance gets there first) as you WILL have cracked ribs and you WILL have some actual heart compression.

Some compression is way way better than wasted time with an improperly maintained / inoperative AED, which is what a typical HOA will have on hand after a few months or years.

However: Are you saying that, in your opinion, the time spent trying an AED which may be 50/50 operative is worth the 'shot' even if it delays actual CPR/CR ?

OK, I accept that the AED should be the primary response (if available) after calling 911.

In an ideal world the AED would be properly maintained and operative when accessed.

However, in the corporate never-never-land of self managed HOAs I believe that the proper maintenance would, at best, be a 50:50 bet.

Therefor, IMO, it is problematic for a HOA to institute an AED program.

BODs change over and over and continuity of contracts and maintenance procedures are NOT assured (or even probable).

So the AED is likely to simply sit, unmaintained, in its' 'wall box' gathering dust.

I still think the AED sign will merely give a false sense of security.

Dr. Z: If I, myself, were to reach you as a solo first responder (after calling 911) would you, personally, want me to go for aggressive CR or the AED ? (personally)

Just like that dusty old fire extinguisher that some HOAs have in the clubhouse and others avoid like the plague because it could create liability.

Liability or not, I would like to think that if I needed an AED to save my life that one would be available when I needed it.

p.s.



no reply to date

?MOI?

I agree

PROVIDING

that there is a reasonable probability of the AED being in a functional state.

In the sense of this post, I believe that the typical volunteer operated 55+ (HOPA) HOA would NOT properly maintain said AED, nor get rid of it after it self tests and alarms (assuming anyone actually paid attention).

IMO:

There is a 50/50 chance that it would sit dead in its' wall box after 2 or more years of well intentioned 'feel good'.

Then, while the INDIVIDUAL would face no liability for its' attempted use, the CORPORATION would be 'on the hook' for big bucks.

There is no 'corporate shield' unless proper procedure was followed TO THE LETTER.

? How many dead battery operated smoke detectors are there ?

Even though they 'beep' for days before going dead !

ERGO: The legal risk for the typical HOA is too great

The horse is now long dead - probably needed an AED.

I'd be shocked if you didn't say something like that John.

Knew you would appreciate it.

One of the many ballot items our previous President had us vote for last year was purchasing an AED for our senior community. It was the only item that was voted down. (Not counting items that should have been billed as amendment to our documents). Many of our seniors have a DNR order. and did not want any an AED on site.