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mailing documents to homeowners

Started by CharlesG5 • 21 replies • 1845 views

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CharlesG5 (Florida)
Posts: 60
Posted:
Live in a Florida HOA community. The board has passed some new rules and regulations. Our documents do not state if these new r and r need to be sent to the homeowners and Florida Statutes 720 do not say if there is a time line for sending them to the homeowners or when do they take effect.

Is there a timeline for these new R and R to be send to the homeowners or do they need to be send to the homeowners.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Not from FL, but generally speaking, rules cannot go into effect until after owners have been notified in writing.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
FarT (Alabama)
Posts: 14
Posted:
It seems there is a 'hole' in Fl HOA law requiring specific notification of new or amended R&Rs.

But one must ask:
Why would you not publish and distribute or otherwise inform the community such has occurred?
How else would you expect compliance?

The law does however layout specifically what must occur prior to levying fines or similar for HOA doc. violations.
So there is some check-&-balance, of you will, to prevent abuse of the fining provisions.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The issue here is that the documents are considered "PUBLIC" documents. Which does mean even the HOA is responsible for distribution. It's a "courtesy" if the HOA does decide to provide the documents. Otherwise, copies are available at the courthouse.

This does not mean the HOA can not distribute the documents. They can even charge for copies. This can be quite an expense to incur. You will have copy and mailing fees to cover. Which if your HOA can afford it, go for it.

However, by the nature that you all had to have a majority vote of the membership to change the documents, it should be known new copies exist to request. So your choice is to incur the expense to distribute, charge the owners for copies, or direct them to the courthouse.

It does not mean if they do not have the latest and greatest changes this excuses any violations they may incur.

Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
WRONG - again

Only the Covenants and Restrictions themselves are public recorded documents.

In some jurisdictions the Bylaws are also recorded public documents.

The Board of Director's RESOLUTIONS, i.e. Rules and Regulations, are NOT PUBLIC.

Common Law: unpublished rules/laws may NOT be enforced - forgot the actual legal term
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/06/2015 8:10 AM
The issue here is that the documents are considered "PUBLIC" documents. Which does mean even the HOA is responsible for distribution. It's a "courtesy" if the HOA does decide to provide the documents. Otherwise, copies are available at the courthouse.

This does not mean the HOA can not distribute the documents. They can even charge for copies. This can be quite an expense to incur. You will have copy and mailing fees to cover. Which if your HOA can afford it, go for it.

However, by the nature that you all had to have a majority vote of the membership to change the documents, it should be known new copies exist to request. So your choice is to incur the expense to distribute, charge the owners for copies, or direct them to the courthouse.

It does not mean if they do not have the latest and greatest changes this excuses any violations they may incur.


Interesting Melissa.

Here in PA, we don't record changes to rules & regs, or even changes to Bylaws. Only changes to Declaration get recorded. And we don't record if we don't have to because the Recorder of Deeds charges $10 per affected unit to record.

Also in PA, recording a change to the Declaration does not count as notice to the HOs. Recording counts as notice to the general public only. Individual HOs must be notified by the HOA. All that's usually involved is notifying the HOs that the amendment passed. But it still needs to be done for the HOs to be potentially liable under the changes.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
NpS,

you are soooooo polite

FarT (Alabama)
Posts: 14
Posted:
+1 -Florida does not require R&Rs to be filed.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't know about FL statutes, but, following FarT, common sense suggests that they be US mailed to all owners so that they have an opportunity to comply, and so that they can pass them on to their renters in your HOA.

The letter that accompanies the notice of the new rules should state that their effective date

Yes, NpS, you're a real gentleman. Melissa's reply is one of her stock answers that she cuts & pastes onto her responses whether they fit the O.P's question or not. It's way off target.

Perhaps Melissa or FarT can tell us if there's any AL statures that deal with rule changes.

There are statutes in CA re: changes to R&Rs, but that's not the question here.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 02/06/2015 10:39 AM
NpS,

you are soooooo polite



Really? Is that sarcasm? cynicism? BSism?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/06/2015 11:26 AM
Yes, NpS, you're a real gentleman. Melissa's reply is one of her stock answers that she cuts & pastes onto her responses whether they fit the O.P's question or not. It's way off target.


Melissa and I have done our dance. But thanks Kerry.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 163
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/06/2015 11:26 AM
I don't know about FL statutes, but, following FarT, common sense suggests that they be US mailed to all owners so that they have an opportunity to comply, and so that they can pass them on to their renters in your HOA.

The letter that accompanies the notice of the new rules should state that their effective date

Yes, NpS, you're a real gentleman. Melissa's reply is one of her stock answers that she cuts & pastes onto her responses whether they fit the O.P's question or not. It's way off target.

Perhaps Melissa or FarT can tell us if there's any AL statures that deal with rule changes.

There are statutes in CA re: changes to R&Rs, but that's not the question here.

As my 4 year old grandson would say, "why do you have to be so rude?".
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think I recall your "dance" with Melissa, NpS. I brought up the correction to back-up others because I don't want new readers to accept her words without question.

While many of us are former or current HOA presidents, Melissa's the only one with that at the bottom of her posts. So, some newbies may think her posts should carry more weight than others.
SkunT (Ohio)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Question we all know you can't place unmetered mail HOA documents/leaflets in someone's mailbox or place/taped on their door if they have a slot installed for mail delivery.

What about solicitation in door to door handing them out, if the HOA has no solicitations?

Metered mail seems the most legal way to do business even at the cost of it.

As for changing things and not sending them a copy of it and they run afoul of the change that was made but No notification was given till a Violation notice with 30 days compliance or else, isn't that unfair time to everyone? And a possible unnecessary possible court battle, since lot's of time HOA's BOD's thinks their in the right nd just says we said so here's the rules now.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SkunT on 02/06/2015 9:35 PM

we all know you can't place unmetered mail HOA documents/leaflets in someone's mailbox or place/taped on their door if they have a slot installed for mail delivery.

Actually, this is incorrect.

It is true that placing unmetered mail (mail that has been cancelled by the post office) in someones actual mail box. Placing unmetered mail in mail slots on someones home is allowed.

See Section 508.3.1 of the Postal Service's Domestic Mail Manual:

3.1.2 Exclusions

Door slots and nonlockable bins or troughs used with apartment house mailboxes are not letterboxes within the meaning of 18 USC 1725 and are not private mail receptacles for the standards for mailable matter not bearing postage found in or on private mail receptacles. The post or other support is not part of the receptacle.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SkunT on 02/06/2015 9:35 PM
What about solicitation in door to door handing them out, if the HOA has no solicitations?

Notifying, not soliciting.
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 02/06/2015 11:40 AM
Posted By JohnB26 on 02/06/2015 10:39 AM
NpS,

you are soooooo polite



Really? Is that sarcasm? cynicism? BSism?


He is stating the obvious NPS, you are always very polite in your responses!
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Since our documents state all information is to be mailed, that is what we do. If for some reason a HO does not get said mailed information, it will not be held against the HOA because we did our part and can't be responsible for USPS not doing theirs.

Would it be prudent to wait until your annual meeting, introduce it there and then follow it up with the mailing?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our Bylaws plus Rules & Regulations are filed/recorded with our Covenants. In my SC County we have to pay a $49.00 recording fee when we make a change. The fee is a single charge that covers all 112 homes.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
you ELECT to record the rules and regs

laudable

however, members still need to notified of any changes to same (even if only by reference)
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
sometimes, merely stating the obvious can be all three options

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