shared fences no help frpm (HOA)

just moved in recently, took me a week to meet(Manager)I had to make her listen to my question is there a statute that covers
shared fence lines? She finally admitted that we(HOA) did not have one but we should as this is an ongoing situation that is becoming a problem.. she stated.1)you can ask for help$.2). or maybe you can have say on which side has posts? nothing definitive from her! This lack of foresight has let builders install some shoddy work and many fences are falling down prematurely, she did not care to address inspection for fences in bad shape.. overall in general nothing from this lady other than excuses... I appreciate any and all comments from this forum..

Bobby, welcome. You will find a number of very knowledgeable and helpful people participate in this forum.

This is a long response to your questions. I will preface my response by saying I am not an attorney, nor do I practice law. My comments are based on my personal experience as a resident, board member, and property manager in Texas.

My recommendations are:

1. Read through a copy of the Governing Documents of your association, particularly the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions. The Texas Property Code requires you be given a copy of the CC&Rs (and a number of other documents) prior to the expiration of the ten day option window (if you had one) during which you can unilaterally cancel the offer to purchase the property. You may also have been given a copy of the Architectural Guidelines for the association, if there are any, although that may not be the exact name of the document.

If you did not receive association documents prior to or at closing, contact the Property Manager and ask for a copy of the entire Resale Certificate Package, including the attachments. This should include the Bylaws, CC&Rs, Articles of Incorporation, certificate of insurance, balance sheet from the most recent financial statement, copies of any amendments which may have been made to the governing documents, and other documents under which the association conducts business. You may have to ask your realtor to become involved as the title company should have requested the Resale Certificate Package from the management company or the association and given it to you. You may have been given the documents in electronic form, such as on a CD or thumb drive.

Either the CC&Rs or Architectural Guidelines, or both, may/should provide information regarding architectural standards in the association, which may include fences. You may find information in the CC&Rs under a section entitled Construction of Improvements and Use of Lots, or similar wording. There may also be a section entitled Fences or Fences and Walls. If there are Architectural Guidelines, hopefully they have an index.

You may find language which addresses your questions, perhaps not completely, but you may gain some insight. Also look for language which describes the architectural review process. Most associations require the submission of an Architectural Change Request or similarly named document prior to beginning a project such as replacing a fence. Frankly, the response of the property manager seems to have been very much less than helpful.

Can you help me understand what she meant when she said you can ask for help? Help from who, if not her?

As far as which side has the posts, in my experience in the Texas HOAs with which I am familiar, the posts have to be concealed if they can be seen from a public thoroughfare, such as the street, and in some cases from the alley or other right of way.

By concealed I mean the posts have to be on the "inside" (yard side) of the fence or if the posts are on the public side of the fence, they have to be "boxed" (surrounded with fence material on three sides to conceal them). This assumes metal poles. In my experience, wooden posts are almost always on the yard side of the fence. Pay close attention to what fencing materials may be used, if there is wording on that subject.

As to which property owner has the "pretty side" of the fence, and which has the "pole side", that is a matter of negotiation between the property owners. Generally, if one property owner is paying for the fence, that property owner can dictate the terms of which side of the fence faces his yard. If the cost is split, I have seen the parties agree to split the expense to have the poles boxed so each party has a "pretty side", I have seen other situations in which the parties agree to split the expense of having fencing material on both sides, completely concealing the poles and their shape. If you cannot reach agreement with your neighbor, most associations will not arbitrate the matter between the parties.

A word of caution, some associations do not allow double fences, which means if you cannot come to an agreement with a neighbor, you may not be able to each erect your own fence.

I would next contact the President of the Association or the chairperson of the Architectural Committee and talk with either or both about your questions. I am really bothered about the lack of assistance you received from the property manager. I would hope the President or committee chair would be more helpful.

Bobby

Google Texas Property Code Section 209. When that comes up, scroll down to 209.005, Association Records. It describes the process for making a request to review association records. That section specifies your request has to be sent by certified mail. It is for your protection and that of the association. I'm a bit more confident the property manager knows what she is doing.

If you make a request, which I am going to suggest you do not just yet, try to be as specific as possible. Don't ask to see all records for the last three years. Request records pertaining to your specific area of concern, for whatever timeframe you have in mind.

Another person on the forum suggested you understand the local jurisdiction codes regarding fences. I second that wholeheartedly. You are not just dealing with your association, your city may also have code requirements. You can talk to the folks at the Building Standards office or whatever it is called where you live.

You are a new owner. You probably have no idea what the financial situation is. Don't put people on the defensive, and don't be overbearing. Just tread lightly until you understand the association--and that make take a year or more. If your fence is not a hazard, and is not falling down, just leave it alone for several months.

Attend board meetings. By law, in Texas, you have to be informed in one of several different ways, when board meetings are held. Give your e-mail to the association or property manager, and specifically request you be informed when a board meeting is going to take place, as that is one of the methods the Texas Property Code specifies is to be used.

With very few exceptions, mainly involving emergencies, you must be provided notice of meeting of the Board. You have the right to attend the entire meeting (except for the Executive Session which typically is held at the end). You have the right, in an Owners Forum, which must be provided, to address the Board, ask questions, or whatever. They do not have to respond. My experience is the Owners Forum turns into a discussion period. Respect the Board's time, they are there to have a meeting after the forum. Don't be confrontational. Just show up, introduce yourself, tell them you are a new owner and wish to understand the association--especially if you have never lived in one before.

Good luck.

May I point out that a board member or officer can NOT make a decision outside of a meeting? In my HOA, you must present your idea or issue at the board meeting for us to discuss. I as President just can NOT decide as "Johnny on the Spot" to approve/deny. It must go through the HOA board.

The hesitation is most likely because as an individual board member or even officer, one can not simply approve or deny a request. It is best to address it with the entire board for an official decision.

I find this interesting, as my point is apparently there are no rules concerning shared fence lines , so that is why I wanted some clarification before I started

knocking on neighbors doors.

john.... individual homes, also a side note, a rep for builders is apparently (HOA) prez.. just found out, as I noted reply for Virginia I am trying to find out what and who was making rules, prior to making assumptions(fencing issues)
again thanks all as this is a first for me!!

john,
I am afraid you are on the money, as prez and manager both have a very it is my way or the hi-way, as I have seen myself and
meeting neighbors have similar encounters. So explain what this means for home owners under this form of (HOA)??

John,
wow you are perceptive!! as I meet more neighbors and talk through our community page the very thing as the list is what they call it, dang I was hoping that living in an (HOA) community would not be as political as I'm hearing, going too keep an open approach but very leery as I am wondering why not one home owner is on an advisory nor oversight position.

John,
is this a plan that builders use as a tool to basically do as they please for perpetuity? Do we have any recourse if a percentage (home owners) ask for any records and want some say so in property matters.

If you have not already read your governing documents, you should do so. They will most likely define the criteria for turnover of the association from the developer to the homeowners. That might either be some percentage ownership, or in some cases, a set date. Before the turnover, the homeowners have little say. Since the developer has control, they can even make changes to the governing documents. Hopefully your association is near turnover, at that point the homeowners elect a board, and start developing rules and policies (that typically can't override the governing docs), and start enforcing rules and such. Ideally, the homeowner controlled board will be more responsive.

While a developer is putting up the money to implement ... They also have freedom to choose what they initially construct. Therefore, in many states once they choose and sell to consumers backed by secured creditors ... They do not have the right to defraud consumers and their secured creditors. In many states during development it potentially under Real Estate Statute of Frauds is illegal to make changes that can devalue collateral attached to security agreements. A secured creditor when lending expects to receive their money back if necessary to foreclose. If changes are made that could devalue their collateral attached to security agreement then other State Laws could be violated.

I suspect that the issue has been resolved one way or another as this thread is 2 months old.