Request for email

A member of our hoa association is requesting to know who is reporting him for a compliance violation. I've refused to disclose it, however he is threatening to send a formal request for records disclosure, specifically emails regarding violations of his property.

Is this something that he can do, and if so, do I then have to disclose copies of the email?

Thanks

Hi Robert and welcome.

IMO, the decision that a violation exists rests with your BOD. How the information came to the BOD is irrelevant to the the question of whether the violation exists and it does not need to be divulged. Either the BOD is justified in issuing the violation or it isn't. End of story.

If he makes a formal request, you can respond with a formal refusal.

While I am not knowledgeable about FL statute, 720 appears to focus on non-disclosure of personal information unless authorized by the individual. In a quick scan of the statute, I could see nothing about mandatory disclosure. Others who are knowledgeable about FL law will provide better info, but without a statutory mandate or some directive in your CC&Rs, I see no obligation.

Here, you and I differ Janet.

1. In a criminal case, you have the absolute right to know who is your accuser. In a civil case, maybe.

2. To obtain records via discovery, a lawsuit must first be filed. In nearly 30 years, our board has been threatened many times, but sued only once. Avoiding legal threats should not be the basis for setting policy.

3. When the board gets the discovery request (after the lawsuit has been filed), the records will be redacted (blackened out) to prevent the disclosure of private personal information. If the plaintiff objects, he can file for greater disclosure. If that happens, the judge will look at the un-redacted documents, and decide whether the redacted information must be disclosed. In short, it's not as easy as you think.

4. Re your statement that people should be willing to back up their issue at a board meeting, not necessarily. Our only requirement is that the complaint is in writing and the person complaining identifies himself. And I think that's as it should be - some people are non-confrontational by nature and would be extremely uncomfortable making a public statement about a neighbor. They would rather remain quiet even when the wrong is substantial.

5. We know who our chronic complainers are. They almost never come to meetings anyway.

6. Why we don't think that disclosure is the right thing to do? Bullying can go both ways. If A complains about B, and then we disclose to B that A is the source of the complaint - and then B confronts A - there could be an altercation that we don't want to see happen in our neighborhood. That's a real possibility (and it's kind of like road rage - you never know what will happen).

Seems a reasonable accommodation to present the accused and all the information, since this is a HOA community it's not like living in a every day House community, you certainly have far less privacy on issues like this..

2nd if this accused can present information that his property is getting exposed for violations and it's not being dealt with elsewhere and this individual can point and then accuse the BOD of whitewashing all the other violations that this individual might be aware of but only zeroing in on this one individual.

3rd it's not the BOD business to be concerned of possible ramifications of the accused being told whom made the complaint HOA rights to privacy went out the door when they signed up into a HOA.

If there is no laws preventing the release of the individual and the complaint, and this person goes after the HOA, the HOA will end up footing the information anyways and the entire legal cost and possible liability's.

If the emails are being sent to the BOD, then isn't that bypassing the HOA bylaws, since complaints are generally specific formatted and printed documents??? the HOA that tried taking our section over sure had a written form that has to be signed even and there's no non-discloser on that document And emails are more Personal form of communications unless the emails has a specific printed non-disclosure of this electronic document without the express written consent of the sender. some kind of Legal mumbo jumbo legal thingies which is a few sentences more that what I just mentioned. if there is a legal thing on the email, it's not private communication and is not protected or even can't be used as evidence. besides anyone can make up a email account go to a site and send them totally unanimously, leaving the victim basically they can't defend themselves due to a email accusation.

Then your last problem yes it's a violation after the fact that wasn't discovered by the reasonable HOA community lot owners observance. Second if there is a chain of emails between the board and this accuser, then a new can of worms can be opened over probably a petty thing going on right now.

Old Chinese proverb... Don't make a Mountain out of a Mole Hill.

Keep in mind the person who reported the violation is a HOA member. They are doing their due diligence as a member to report a violation to the proper people to take action. Which is the board who decides to enforce the violation or not. The board does not need to report who reported it other than saying a fellow member reported a violation that we decided was valid or not.

Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Bringing a lawsuit on such an issue is just frivilous andempty.... They are trying to distract the issue from being enforced by doing the whole "look the other way while I punch this guy"...

My only concern would be if it is a violation and what to do about. The report and who did it does not matter as it was a member who is supposed to do it. It is an defensive reaction to be followed by other empty threats of lawsuits or other pursuits... If it is a criminal threat call the police... If it a lawsuit threat, go pound sand... Will wait for the paperwork...

Once the compliant is determined to be valid the board then becomes the complaintant for any violation.

Routinely we do NOT provide the name of anyone who filed a complaint.

And this is not a criminal matter so it would be our view the right to face your accuser does not come into play.

And the reasons to withhold this sort of information should be clear enough.

So this owner plans to file legal action. Good luck with that....

THe way the board works is the property manager handles all of this. If residents complain about other residents, she just sends out a compliance letter. She really doesn't drive around and look around or verify.

I agree with JonD1. In my association, all complaints are confidential but the board will not act on anything unless we witness the violation. Then the board becomes the complaintant. I do not see any reason to pit residents against each other in this manner. From a safety standpoint, making the original complainer known only results in trouble and will deter future complaints. I refuse to drive around looking for violations, but if someone tells me someone is in violation of our rules, my answer is always, "OK thanks, I will check it out".

I would say if you respond to the person making the complaint through email your response becomes part of your associations records and must be produced through discovery in court...at least in Virginia, should this go there. Don't think you have to produce the email outside of court.

Don't think you need to reveal who is reporting him either. A violation is a violation. My questions would be why is someone other than the board, ASC, or property manager the first to notice and report a violation. Are there other violations being missed by oversight or on purpose? Was this particular violation going on for some time when formerly friendly neighbors got into a disagreement about something and then one told on the other?

We have been told the same by our attorney concerning HOA discussions/communication and using our private emails: they are subject to discovery. That is why we went to gmail accounts for each board and committee member. Plus one of our disgruntled homeowners published all of our private email addresses and my unlisted phone number because she was pissed off at us (and me in particular).

I'm with Jon, NpS, Allison & maybe others. It's the Board that ACTS and makes decisions on an alleged violation once they've confirmed it's actually against the CCRs, Rules & Regs. or whatever. If your Board, RobertC, follows state statutes for dealing with such matters, do not be concerned.

If this H/O sends a formal request to your/you board, turn him down formally in writing in a letter. Let him spend a lot of $$$ trying to sue you if he wishes. But I don't think he's threatened that.

Did I miss it, RobertC, are you the president? Did the email come to your or someone else, say a property mgr.?

Neither our PM, her Assistant, our security officers nor directors can be expected to see all violations in our high rises. Therefore it's usually a neighbor who complains, and often it's a noise complaint, which a staffer, usually a security officer corroborates in a written report to our PM.

Yes we crap all over you. That's why it's called doo process.

They usually will leave you alone if you run up their legal bills, demand discovery printed items and all the copy's of the lot deeds, etc, etc, etc, etc, stalling and talking back and forth and slowly bring up new issues every couple weeks and repeat. since they can't sue you later if they win since your not in their HOA anyways at that time and their clause doesn't apply to you.

Thing is it's in their own Deed restriction that our sections not in a HOA, yet they keep at it. every time they change property management company's they tell the new company our section is in their HOA and their legal bills starts shooting up again. they just don't want to stop. Kind of getting Funnier every time, figuring new ways to cost them more money trying to get us to join.

Robert, I'm sorry but this is very poor policy. And if the Board allows it the fault is theirs. To send compliance letters whether or not a violation exists, simply on what amounts to an anonymous complaint, no wonder the homeowner is upset and wants to know who dropped the dime. And since the people who should have verified that a violation truly existed before sending a compliance didn't, I change my previous statement and think he is entitled to know.

Of course we do.

My "it isn't a bad idea" was in regards to having a separate e-mail address for officers to use.

The 4th amendment of the US Constitution limits the powers of the government, by and large not HOA's.

Oh Mark, how did you know I prowl match.com?? Your right the judge won't want to see your wooing me, but they will want to see every email between me and my buddy who is also a board member. If you are buddies with other board members and use your private email for board business too, then all of your "private" emails with said buddies will be up for scrutiny, even though they may or may not be "board business".

The reality is that as board members you should protect yourself in every way possible against the HOA haters and this is a simple layer of protection to attain.

In any case, the ongoing use of personal email for coordinating among board members is a problem that must be addressed. It is a way of excluding members and hiding information that can only be judged as relevant or not in the Sunshine. If city officials did this, there would be hearings, newspaper articles and possible fines or criminal charges. HOA is not exactly the same, but the coordinating outside the Sunshine aspect subverts transparency and trust.