special assessment for changing batteries in smoke detectors.

Started by BonnieG1 • 25 replies • 2336 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

At our last Board meeting we voted to have our PM change the batteries in each unit and assess a special assessment of $3.50 to each unit owner on the March bill.

An offsite owner (absentee landlord) called and told me that we could not assess a fee for something done inside a person's unit. I did tell her I understand her point and would check on it.

She also made reference to the fire department doing it for free since we are a senior facility. I double checked with the fire department to see if the Association could request this for each unit or if each owner had to call to request this. The Association can not call and request for each unit the owner has to make the call.

Since we don't have a sprinkler system (grandfathered in), we felt this was a safety issue. And as I thought more about it, not have a working battery could potentially cause problems in the common areas.

I did ask our owner-lawyer about this but haven't heard her yet. And yes, I will review our documents in some detail regarding this issue.

It seems as though every time I turn around something comes up to take more of my time. I am certain other President's probably feel the same way.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Bonnie,

I would advertise the importance of a working smoke detector and encourage the members to call.

I would also be concerned that your budget is so tight that you couldn't have money to do this without a special assessment.

Another concern would be the liability the Association may incur if, for some reason, a smoke detector didn't work after the Association took on the responsibility to maintain them and someone incurs damage or loss due to fire or smoke.

Again, a nice idea but the better way to handle it would be to encourage the members to contact the fire department or to change them themselves.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I have to agree with the homeowner - the interior is usually the homeowner's responsibility and while I understand your concern about the safety issue, homeowners should have enough sense to change the batteries at least once a year. And to issue a special assessment for something like this is a little silly to me.

Why not put an article in your newsletter emphasizing to homeowners the importance of making sure they have a working smoke detector? Depending on how your master insurance policy is written, you could also note that if their conduct or lack thereof in their unit results in damages to an adjoining unit, they may be on the hook for those repairs (our policy has a $5K deductible and homeowners have to pay it in such circumstances).

Your article might also suggest homeowners install a carbon monoxide detector as well - statistics say more people die from smoke inhalation in fires than being burned.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 01/28/2015 7:58 AM
At our last Board meeting we voted to have our PM change the batteries in each unit and assess a special assessment of $3.50 to each unit owner on the March bill.

Slightly off topic, but is common in your association to have small special assessments like this? If this is an annual requirement, it certainly seems like it could have been included in the budget. Even if not explicitly included, aren't there contingency or general maintenance amounts in your budget to pay for small things that pop up during the year?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 01/28/2015 8:27 AM

1. No, it is not common to have small special assessments like this.
2. yes, we do have contingency or general maintenance amounts in our budget. We have a capital reserve account and
an operational reserve account.
But we will be voting on spending large sums of money for extra security systems. If the measure for extra
extra security passes our budget will be strained. Our members have known since the last annual meeting that
the Board is getting bids for extra security measures. Long story, but the members voted overwhelmingly in
favor of getting bids. Now when the rubber hits the road and prices are available it could be a completely
different story and the extra security measure(s) be voted down.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bonnie

What is the bottom line cost for replacing them all?

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

Bonnie,

When was the last time that all the smoke detectors were replaced? How old are they? And were the new ones, and/or existing ones, installed by the Association?

Is this the first time that the Association has replaced, or is going to replace the batteries in all of the detectors?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Typical ionization type detector's service life = 10-12 years (the tiny iota of radioactive element has a 12 year 1/2 life).

The detectors should have been 'hard wired' with battery backup in case of power loss.

Unless the Fire Department issues a violation to the association (feel free to call for a voluntary inspection) - MYOB

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Tim,

My understanding is that Bonnie's condo complex is much like an apartment building. A fire in one unit could spread to other units if not detected early.

While it is nice that the fire department will do the job for free if asked by an individual owner, the association has a duty to ensure some degree of safety for its residents. The only practical way to ensure that all smoke detectors are operational is for the association to inspect each one and replace the batteries. The association cannot risk everyone's safety by waiting for each owner to replace batteries on their own because most will never do it at all. If it was me, I would gladly take on the risk of have a non-functional smoke detector after the batteries have been replaced as opposed to the liability of doing nothing at all or expecting that some third party will do the job for me.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Correct

Hard wire the detectors so the battery is merely a back-up.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/28/2015 2:51 PM
Correct

Hard wire the detectors so the battery is merely a back-up.

Good advice John.

Bonnie, has anyone looked at your insurance policies to see whose liability it is if smoke detectors are not working in a unit? Is this a conversation you can have with your insurance agent?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

And with code compliance and the fire marshal.

They really really really should be hard wired !

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 01/28/2015 8:49 AM
Bonnie

What is the bottom line cost for replacing them all?

$150.50

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EllieD on 01/28/2015 9:58 AM
Bonnie,

When was the last time that all the smoke detectors were replaced? How old are they? And were the new ones, and/or existing ones, installed by the Association?

Is this the first time that the Association has replaced, or is going to replace the batteries in all of the detectors?

I don't know when the smoke detectors themselves were replaced, but individual unit owners have had batteries replaced but I think there are some units that have not had batteries replaced for years.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/28/2015 11:29 AM
Typical ionization type detector's service life = 10-12 years (the tiny iota of radioactive element has a 12 year 1/2 life).

The detectors should have been 'hard wired' with battery backup in case of power loss.

Unless the Fire Department issues a violation to the association (feel free to call for a voluntary inspection) - MYOB

I quite certain our smoke detectors are hard wired. We have a box in our entry that indicates what unit a fire is in if there is a fire.
Mine went off the other day when I was making pancakes but the fire department did not come. This is something I need to research--when does the fire department come.

I am glad the fire department did not come because we would have been charged for a false alarm if they had come.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/28/2015 2:51 PM
Correct

Hard wire the detectors so the battery is merely a back-up.

Already done, but if the power is out (Which can happen in NE any day of the year due to storms and other problems)
even a hardwired smoke detector with no working battery is useless.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 01/28/2015 7:19 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 01/28/2015 8:49 AM
Bonnie

What is the bottom line cost for replacing them all?

$150.50

Why nickel, dime them especially for a safety issue. If a concern then just do it.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

if the detectors are 'ionization' type the detectors themselves need replacement every 12 years

if 'photoelectric' they need annual cleaning and service

if 'combination' the 12 year timeframe applies

your battery issue is the LEAST of your issues

especially now that you HAVE BEEN INFORMED

now, you can NO LONGER MYOB

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

ps. the FD does not respond to smoke detection

they will respond to:

sprinkler system discharge

pull box activation

industrial type wired 'rate of rise' temperature detectors

some other specialty automatic call systems

who, if anyone, is the 'life safety director' for the hi-rise ?

if you don't have one, why not ?

or are you planning to continue simply attempting to 'try your best' ?

! y'all need professional guidance !

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

p.p.s.

a typical alkaline 9V battery costs $2 RETAIL

if your members are balking at $3.50 including labor they are idiots

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/29/2015 5:52 AM
ps. the FD does not respond to smoke detection

I'm not sure about high rise, but where I live they do respond to smoke detection for single family homes.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

... if you call them ...

my bad: I was referring to automatic unattended signaling systems

eg. a wired flow switch in an automatic fire suppression sprinkler system

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/29/2015 5:54 AM
p.p.s.

a typical alkaline 9V battery costs $2 RETAIL

if your members are balking at $3.50 including labor they are idiots

Most members aren't balking at the $3.50 fee. Just one absentee landlord who is a realtor.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/29/2015 5:52 AM
ps. the FD does not respond to smoke detection

they will respond to:

sprinkler system discharge

pull box activation

industrial type wired 'rate of rise' temperature detectors

some other specialty automatic call systems

who, if anyone, is the 'life safety director' for the hi-rise ?

if you don't have one, why not ?

or are you planning to continue simply attempting to 'try your best' ?

! y'all need professional guidance !

Thanks, John, this site has been very helpful to me.

First This is a three story building and not a high rise. At least I never considered three stories to be a high rise.

We don't have a designated "safety director" but we do have regular safety inspections. We did have a former fire captain give us a fire prevention presentation. He walked through our building first and was impressed with the safety features we do have in place. We did have a current fire captain walk through the building and give advise as to meeting places in case of a fire. We would have had a fire drill, but winter was coming on and I felt it was too cold to risk our older residents going out in the cold just for a drill. That could have killed some of them before a fire would. Now that spring is on its way (If I am still President) I plan on having a fire drill and hope this can be at least once a year drill.

I hope to have this fire prevention presentation each year. But I won't be President forever and I can't control what the next President does other that give advise when and if asked.

As President some of my biggest problems have been former Presidents who make statements when they do not know all of the story.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 01/29/2015 7:09 AM

Posted By JohnB26 on 01/29/2015 5:54 AM
p.p.s.

a typical alkaline 9V battery costs $2 RETAIL

if your members are balking at $3.50 including labor they are idiots

Most members aren't balking at the $3.50 fee. Just one absentee landlord who is a realtor.

This absentee landlord has give the Board more than one headache over the years. Enough so that I was aware of the problems with her before I was even on the Board.

Long story, but she threatened to have a vehicle towed from the garage because she thought that space belonged to her unit.

Our garage spaces are assigned and through the years assignments have note always been recorded at the courthouse.
This is a mess that needs to be untangled. I hope the lawyer (who specializes in condo law) we recently hired can help us untangle it. But this is kind of off subject.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

Bonnie,

OK on having fire prevention presentations. But re the hard wired system and having a “box in our entry that indicates what unit a fire is in if there is a fire”: Do you have the “actual wired system” tested periodically to make sure that it is in working order? Or have you asked if that is necessary?

Also, all individual smoke detectors are supposed to be tested periodically, and they typically have a button to push, to test. I assume that whoever installs the new battery, will test the detector after installing a new battery, as part of “the job”.

Replacing all the batteries at the same time is a good idea – but since this appears to be a “new service”, something not done in the past, IMO you should know the age of the majority of the existing detector units before proceeding. As has already been pointed out, a typical smoke unit is only good for about 7 – 10 years.

If you cannot find records, which should include a warranty for 5, 7, 10 years, you might be able to find out how old they are, by “looking at” the Detector itself to see if there is a manufactured date stamped on it.

Currently, what happens when a Smoke Detector starts “beeping” that it needs a new battery? If the Unit Owner is unable to replace the battery, who do they call? And who supplies and/or pays for the new battery and installation?

You wrote that you would “assess a special assessment of $3.50 to each unit owner on the March bill.” Are you really sure that you want to do that? Just curious, do all Owners pay ONLY monthly, and pay ONLY AFTER receiving “a bill” for the month?

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