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PatW2 (Washington)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I've been President of the Board for six year in my Association, and soon my position will be up for re-election.

I'm very well like through-out the community, because I'm able to keep our HOA running smoothly.
However, it's hard to make everyone happy. There's one homeowner in particular that I've had to deal with multiple times.
After she became very needy, I stopped helping with her many non-HOA issues. Afterward she became very angry with me, and asked the
other board members to reprimand me. That didn't happen.

Now with the pending Board election coming up... She has been going door-to-door speaking with several homeowners asking them not to re-elect me.
She been telling them that I have been embezzling money from the Association, and that I'm not fit to be on the Board.
Since she doesn't come to any of the board meetings or has ever asked to see our community financials, I can only assume she is doing this out of spite.

Clearly this is Defamation of Character, but I'm not sure to what level I should respond to it. Or if I should
respond at all.

Should I just let this go, or should I take some kind of action against her?

Thanks for reading.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatW2 on 01/09/2015 12:42 AM

Clearly this is Defamation of Character . . .


It's not all that clear. As an elected official, you are open to criticism. You made yourself a target by throwing your hat in the ring.

The following is a direct quote from Wikipedia:

"New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), was a United States Supreme Court case that established the actual malice standard, which has to be met before press reports about public officials can be considered to be defamation and libel; and hence allowed free reporting of the civil rights campaigns in the southern United States. It is one of the key decisions supporting the freedom of the press. The actual malice standard requires that the plaintiff in a defamation or libel case prove that the publisher of the statement in question knew that the statement was false or acted in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity. Because of the extremely high burden of proof on the plaintiff, and the difficulty of proving the defendant's knowledge and intentions, such cases—when they involve public figures—rarely prevail."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

Your situation is made even more difficult because the statements were oral, so you would have to prove what she said.

One of the problems with HOA elections is that candidates seldom campaign. My recommendation would be to campaign for office by printing up a list of accomplishments (your own and the board's) and distribute that door-to-door. I would not recommend either acknowledging the attacks made against you or identifying the attacker; just ignore her.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
I do agree with Larry that a claim like that would be hard to prove in court. I also agree that it might be best in the long run just to let it go, ignore her and let your record speak for itself.

However, those are very strong allegations she's making! If people believe her it may unfairly affect the outcome of the election or at the least damage your reputation. It would be very hard for me to ignore someone going door-to-door stating that I was "embezzling money from the association" when it's wasn't true. How do you know this is being said? Do you have proof or someone willing to confirm this? If so and I were in your situation, I would have to confront her (most likely in written form) letting her know if she continues with these type of libelous comments you will be consulting with an attorney and are prepared to press charges.

That's what I'd do if I were in that situation. This is simply my opinion. I'm not in the legal profession. I had to do this in a past concerning a non-HOA matter and that type of strong warning worked for me. I never had to consult an attorney and the behavior subsided.

I wish you luck deciding how to handle this matter.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/09/2015 5:53 AM
I do agree with Larry that a claim like that would be hard to prove in court. I also agree that it might be best in the long run just to let it go, ignore her and let your record speak for itself.

However, those are very strong allegations she's making! If people believe her it may unfairly affect the outcome of the election or at the least damage your reputation. It would be very hard for me to ignore someone going door-to-door stating that I was "embezzling money from the association" when it's wasn't true. How do you know this is being said? Do you have proof or someone willing to confirm this? If so and I were in your situation, I would have to confront her (most likely in written form) letting her know if she continues with these type of libelous comments you will be consulting with an attorney and are prepared to press charges.

That's what I'd do if I were in that situation. This is simply my opinion. I'm not in the legal profession. I had to do this in a past concerning a non-HOA matter and that type of strong warning worked for me. I never had to consult an attorney and the behavior subsided.

I wish you luck deciding how to handle this matter.


Correction, it would be slanderous statements because the statements were verbal. (written statements would be considered libelous.)
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
Bang her
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Personally, I'd ignore it - as you said, she doesn't go to board meetings, hasn't asked for any financials and if your neighbors have any sense, they would have already asked her for proof. Since she has none, she's little more than a windbag and I suspect your neighbors aren't paying attention to her anyway (people like this have usually annoyed more than one person).

Now, if someone brings this up at the election, all you can do is remind everyone that the Association financials are and always have been available for any homeowner to review and they're encouraged to ask about anything they don't understand. Let your achievements speak for themselves.

It may also help if other board members speak up and remind everyone that if they have any issues with anyone on the board, they're expected to behave in a professional manner and specify what the problem is, rather than name calling and spreading rumors, which will not be tolerated.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
If your situation is as Shelia has described, hasn't escalated any further, then I too would ignore it, not give the woman the attention she is probably craving. Hopefully that's all you ever have to do!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with Sheila, Amanda and Larry. Having had a similar reelection problem myself recently, dirty campaigning by another seeking reelection, I'd follow Larry's advice in his last paragraph.

If anyone a asks you about the embezzlement charges (unlikely) , remind them that the books are open for inspection
PatW2 (Washington)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you all for the good advice...

When you continually go above and beyond for the community, it really hurts when someone says something so slanderous.
But the vast majority of homeowners appreciate the work I do, and have asked me to stay on the Board. I'm sure my position is safe.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Pat

There will always be fools and idiots we have to suffer and some will be members of ones association.

I call them Chief Complaining Officers (CCO's) and we all have them. In my neighborhood they seem to be those that get together and walk their dogs. They look for each other to bytch to. I call them the "puppy walkers" and many are learning what I mean by that.....LOL
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Keep your head up, Pat, and know that members of your community do appreciate you even if you don't hear about it! You'll see when you're reelected.

The one who libeled me--yes in a letter distributed to half our owners and put in a public place for the other half--lost her bid for reelection because, IMO, her letter was so nasty & unprofessional.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 01/09/2015 7:58 AM
Bang her

head against a wall.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Easy... Just don't do anything she says you do. Simple as that. It only bothers you if it's your fear or your guilt...

Former HOA President
GertrudeC (California)
Posts: 23
Posted:
If it were me, I would write it down and get it recorded, dates, times places if possible and have it filed officially as a complaint. If you can get factual statements you could prove the truth at least, not here say. I would have very hard time ignoring this type of behavior although it happens they do have freedom of speech. I would assume she is ONLY going to folks who will listen to bad stuff about you? or are others slamming doors?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Only give credit or attention when due and deserved... I would just ignore it and keep doing my job. I found those type of people dig their own holes by the way they conduct themselves. It is also the same with you. It is all in how you conduct yourself. Keep trucking on and forward... Let the crap fall behind...

Former HOA President
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Overall, IMO it seems like the best advice for you Pat, would be to ignore the accusations of this woman. However, you never know how far this "crazy person" may go, if it were me I'd take Gertrudes' advice to at least keep a log of what has occurred. You may never need this but it's always good to have documentation just in case the matter were to escalate in the future. Sometimes things continue to escalate and it's not under your control, and you are forced to defend yourself and your character. Hopefully, your situation can simply be diffused by taking the high road!
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GertrudeC on 01/10/2015 10:40 AM
If it were me, I would write it down and get it recorded, dates, times places if possible and have it filed officially as a complaint. If you can get factual statements you could prove the truth at least, not here say. I would have very hard time ignoring this type of behavior although it happens they do have freedom of speech. I would assume she is ONLY going to folks who will listen to bad stuff about you? or are others slamming doors?

Freedom of speech does not allow for anyone to defame another person with something that is not true. Even in today's social media frenzy.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Write this person a personal letter in which asks them if what you are hearing is true, that they are defaming you in your community and that if it is true they need to stop or face a lawsuit because she is defaming your name. If you have written proof she said you did something, and you did not, you will win. Write the letter so sicken-ly sweet that it makes you want to throw up to further drive your point home.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Generally the basis for defamation is loss of income. You'd have to show lost income in order for the Court to "make you whole."

However there is the concept of Per Se defamation. This would allow punitive damages.

I live in Georgia.

Defamation Per Se

Georgia recognizes that certain statements constitute defamation per se. These statements are so egregious that they will always be considered defamatory and are assumed to harm the plaintiff's reputation, without further need to prove that harm. Under Georgia statutes, a statement is defamatory per se if it:
• charges another person with a crime punishable by law;
• charges another person “with having some contagious disorder or with being guilty of some debasing act which may exclude him from society;” or
• refers to the trade, office, or profession of another person, and is calculated to injure him.

---------------

That's a long shot too though. Maybe your 'office' has been attacked.

I was the defendant in a defamation suit last year. I won though.

Walt
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterM3 on 01/14/2015 8:58 AM
Generally the basis for defamation is loss of income. You'd have to show lost income in order for the Court to "make you whole."

However there is the concept of Per Se defamation. This would allow punitive damages.

I live in Georgia.

Defamation Per Se

Georgia recognizes that certain statements constitute defamation per se. These statements are so egregious that they will always be considered defamatory and are assumed to harm the plaintiff's reputation, without further need to prove that harm. Under Georgia statutes, a statement is defamatory per se if it:
• charges another person with a crime punishable by law;
• charges another person “with having some contagious disorder or with being guilty of some debasing act which may exclude him from society;” or
• refers to the trade, office, or profession of another person, and is calculated to injure him.

---------------

That's a long shot too though. Maybe your 'office' has been attacked.

I was the defendant in a defamation suit last year. I won though.

Walt

...She been telling them that I have been embezzling money from the Association...


seems like a solid case to me
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
.... a case of terminal ennui ....
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:

The big thing in Defamation suits is showing loss of income. When Jesse Ventura sued the estate of Chief Petty officer Kyle (that is the "American Sniper" if you've been under a rock) he actually showed how his yearly income went from like $2,000,000 one year to a low of $400,000. I think that is what I read.

You are not going to be able to show any financial losses based on what you are alleging as the facts.

The 'per se' aspect is a long shot, but if you hire a lawyer he/she will probably tell you it might work.

Walt
ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244
Posted:
It is unfortunate that some people are willing to expend energy slandering someone who serves the community rather than jumping in and helping to serve themselves.

I had a lady in my neighborhood make similar statements about embezzlement to members. I contacted her and told her if she believes a crime is being committed, she should call the police. I reminded her the books and records are open to inspection, which to her credit she did make an appointment to come inspect.

She admitted that she made the statements because she felt embezzlement is prevalent in HOA's.
NicoleO1 (California)
Posts: 181
Posted:
I would let it go to an extent. I would make it a point to address this in an open session during an HOA Meeting and express that you are aware that there has been a source stating XYZ. Remind membership that the source fo this information has not attended a meeting or reviewed financials etc, also remind them that financials are transparent and can be provided to them if so desired.

Then.. let it go.
EdnaB (Louisiana)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Now that you have nicknamed them,I am glad you are able to find humor in this.We too have a similar situation,but apathy seems to be so prevalent and frustrating. Facebook has exasperated the situation as everyone wants to be HEARD but not involved.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556
Posted:
A clarification is needed here, has Facebook exacerbated or exasperated the situation?

Or both?

Only joking
AndyG3 (Washington)
Posts: 4
Posted:
It's so unfortunate that those who care to serve are so often "beat up" by those who won't lift a finger to help. It's a thankless job. I'm in a very similar position, and I have chosen to ignore the person. However, I have been legally advised that if the false statements -such as embezzlement in your case - continue, a letter from an attorney will very likely result in the person ceasing the false statements. As mentioned before in the forum, if you have dates/times of the false statements, that works in your favor. There is a difference between unjust criticism and outright slander. As an individual, you do have rights and you do have a reputation to protect. If the slander carries over into other parts of your life (personal, professional, etc.), then it's time to have an attorney send a short and direct letter warning that continued inappropriate and false statements may lead to legal action on your part. It's a letter of warning whether you pursue action at any time in the future or not. A letter from an attorney on his/her letterhead often works wonders.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Georgia recognizes that certain statements constitute defamation per se. These statements are so egregious that they will always be considered defamatory and are assumed to harm the plaintiff's reputation, without further need to prove that harm. Under Georgia statutes, a statement is defamatory per se if it:
• charges another person with a crime punishable by law
.....


Bring legal action

or

be quiet
DarylF (Washington)
Posts: 157
Posted:
The key is false statements of fact. She can say you are a loser or an idiot, or a worthless human, (all opinions protected by the first amendment) but the second she says something like you are a drug addict, you are a sex offender, or you are stealing money, she just slandered you. A lawsuit would probably be useless though.

Maybe send her a formal letter and inform her of the definition and possible penalties for slander.
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
This is the thread that -will-not-die-.

Even if you can prove that so and so said you took bribes, for instance. You still have to prove -damages-. How did you lose income over those statements? That is why you often hear about these suits involving celebrities. They can show, as Jesse Ventura did, that his income was affected by the false statements.

I also bet that no one in your neighborhood cares one whit.

Walt
SuzieE (California)
Posts: 20
Posted:
Recently paid a lot of money to an attorney for a similar issue. Advice I received is "so what? They are just words." So my advice is just to ignore the comments. Campaign for re-election and mention your accomplishments thus far. Ignore the nasty allegations that you know have been made. Good luck.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Suzie,
Thank you, for sharing your real life experience with "Defamation of Character", sorry for all the grief it must have caused you. I have gone through something of similar nature recently and reading your reminder that it's always best to take the high road and ignore nasty allegations was much needed.

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