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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
All,

I've got a resident who has a financial hardship and has proposed a payment plan for the 2015 assessment (wants to pay over two years). Since, based on Association records, this will be the first time a payment plan has been considered by our Association, I am looking for examples of payment plan agreements.

I understand the concerns of posting such plans in the forum. Therefore, if you have one and are willing to share, my e-mail is: [email protected]

Thank you.

As for general discussion, what terms or concerns should be addressed in such an agreement?

Tim
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We had a 6 month we liened policy. Which allowed us to have a payment plan in place to avoid a lien. The violation of not attempting to catch up on dues, allowed us to enforce the lien policy. I believe 6 months is a good time period to weed those full of bull or gives those with true financial issues the ability to catch up.

I had the people who knew they were going to be late or could not make a month's payment, the ability to pay half that month but in full the next without penalty. They still were a half month's payment behind but late fees were not added. That half month behind dues would follow them until they were able to catch up properly. With the 6 month policy in place this did allow them to stay up to 6 months behind without late fees until we were forced to put the lien in place. That's basically allowed them about a year of paying half dues before we enforced the lien.

You have to be as lenient as possible but deal with reality. Usually I would not enforce late fees onto those willing to make some kind of payment. I would even remove the late fees off the lien total if that got them to pay the lien off. We did keep the legal fee in place for filing the lien.

It's easy to be "tough" on those who blatantly do not pay their dues out of "protest", ignorance, or just don't do it. That's why the 6 month policy worked so well in weeding those people out. It's when you have those facing financial difficulties or living on social security that it is difficult. I liked to think we were as fair as possible to those who truly have issues but still have a firm policy in place.

It probably wasn't a perfect system but I only had one person who needed it. She was a good homeowner and attended meetings. It's just her job had issues and her pay was cut. That is why I created the payment policy. That way she could pay half and not fall into the lien danger. No reason to be mean when you have an honest person. It's a fine line...

Former HOA President
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
It's commendable on both sides, the HO to be upfront about paying dues and the board for agreeing to an easy solution such as a payment plan. I would caution you to also come up with the response you will give to another HO who gets wind of "special treatment" and what it is you will say to them and the HOA. Plan for the worst sort of deal.

Melissa's suggestion is solid in my opinion, the lien being the important part of the agreement. Good Luck!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I think a little more info should have been provided. Our assessments are monthly. Even though we establish an annual assessment, the CC&Rs specify monthly payments.

The owner requesting the plan has a history (over 5 years worth) of paying in full and on time. They are current in assessments and are being proactive with their request.

In doing some research, this is what I'm thinking of proposing to the Board:

Allow 1/2 payments for this years assessment over a two year period.
Late charges will still accrue, but will be waived if the agreement is fulfilled (or the account is brought current earlier). There will be no waiving of charges if the plan is not complied with.

Thoughts?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 5:37 AM
I think a little more info should have been provided. Our assessments are monthly. Even though we establish an annual assessment, the CC&Rs specify monthly payments.

The owner requesting the plan has a history (over 5 years worth) of paying in full and on time. They are current in assessments and are being proactive with their request.

In doing some research, this is what I'm thinking of proposing to the Board:

Allow 1/2 payments for this years assessment over a two year period.
Late charges will still accrue, but will be waived if the agreement is fulfilled (or the account is brought current earlier). There will be no waiving of charges if the plan is not complied with.

Thoughts?


My initial blush would be come next year will they be able to afford their monthlys for that year and 50% more per month for this year?

Can you accept credit cards? They could pay that way then repay themselves as desired.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 5:37 AM
I think a little more info should have been provided. Our assessments are monthly. Even though we establish an annual assessment, the CC&Rs specify monthly payments.

The owner requesting the plan has a history (over 5 years worth) of paying in full and on time. They are current in assessments and are being proactive with their request.

In doing some research, this is what I'm thinking of proposing to the Board:

Allow 1/2 payments for this years assessment over a two year period.
Late charges will still accrue, but will be waived if the agreement is fulfilled (or the account is brought current earlier). There will be no waiving of charges if the plan is not complied with.

Thoughts?


1/2 payments for year 1. Full payments for year 2 plus 1/2 payments from prior year to get caught up. Or are you going to make this an adjust-as-you-go policy? Is anyone going to raise the question of whether the financial problems are temporary enough to be resolved in time for the larger payments?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Personally, I would advise AGAINST a 'long term' payment plan.

Forgiving 1 or 2 month's late fees for a previously good payer is just fine

but

a written forgiveness plan over a 2 year period?

Is there a line item in your budget for non payers?

Where will the shortfall come from?

Will the membership be informed of said plan?

How do you know the member will be able to pay up the arrears 'next year' when they can't find 1/2 the money NOW?

If they can't pay 1/2 their dues now, why enable their spiral into bankruptcy?

Why not contact the cable company and get a copy of THEIR 'payment plan? DOH

Y'all are directors of a business (albeit not-for-profit).

"While the BOD sympathizes with your predicament, we must enforce the Covenants as written. Unfortunately, we feel it is only appropriate to waive x months late fees, if it would helpful, while you 'catch up' on your obligation to the community.
(add appropriate wording re: expenses / budget / fairness to members)"
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 6:32 AM
Personally, I would advise AGAINST a 'long term' payment plan.

Forgiving 1 or 2 month's late fees for a previously good payer is just fine

but

a written forgiveness plan over a 2 year period?

Is there a line item in your budget for non payers?

Where will the shortfall come from?

Will the membership be informed of said plan?

How do you know the member will be able to pay up the arrears 'next year' when they can't find 1/2 the money NOW?

If they can't pay 1/2 their dues now, why enable their spiral into bankruptcy?

Why not contact the cable company and get a copy of THEIR 'payment plan? DOH

Y'all are directors of a business (albeit not-for-profit).

"While the BOD sympathizes with your predicament, we must enforce the Covenants as written. Unfortunately, we feel it is only appropriate to waive x months late fees, if it would helpful, while you 'catch up' on your obligation to the community.
(add appropriate wording re: expenses / budget / fairness to members)"

I agree with John 1000%.
You are opening the door for each owner to now be elligible for the same courtesy at a cost to the property.

This is a business to collect and manage the affairs of the community not make exceptions based on situations that should not influence the onwer's obligation to pay their fair share.

We have waived late fees on occasion when circumstances and payment history warrants doing so. I would not wish to sign up for a two year agreement which binds the association into a situation that benefits the owner at the expense of the property.

This is not a banking operation where you lend money and set payment terms on an individual basis. And as an owner if I were to be told this was agreed to I would be the first to cease paying my common charges to take advantage of this special treatment.

In many cases agreeing to such terms only allows this to drag on and the hole for the owner to get deeper.

This owner has the same obligation to pay their share just as others do take the emotions out of the situation and protect the interests of the property you serve.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Looking at the flip side of the coin for a moment, Tim's approach assures that at least some money will be coming in to the association, at least until the financial crisis makes that impossible. If the alternative is no money coming in at all, then there is merit to Tim's approach.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
then you would expect the cable company to cut your bill in half until no more money comes in ?
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 5:37 AM
I think a little more info should have been provided. Our assessments are monthly. Even though we establish an annual assessment, the CC&Rs specify monthly payments.

The owner requesting the plan has a history (over 5 years worth) of paying in full and on time. They are current in assessments and are being proactive with their request.

In doing some research, this is what I'm thinking of proposing to the Board:

Allow 1/2 payments for this years assessment over a two year period.
Late charges will still accrue, but will be waived if the agreement is fulfilled (or the account is brought current earlier). There will be no waiving of charges if the plan is not complied with.

Thoughts?


Considering all the circumstances you mentioned about the owner (never late in the past and being proactive), seems like the payment plan would be a good solution. Like Nps said, at least some money would be coming in. Always best to look at the big picture. I'm sure you'll have an attorney look it over so all are protected.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 7:59 AM
then you would expect the cable company to cut your bill in half until no more money comes in ?

IMO your comparison is not equivalent
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 7:59 AM
then you would expect the cable company to cut your bill in half until no more money comes in ?


Yes, but I had to give up 241 channels. Sure do miss those Aleutian movies.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would not do it for a 2 year period. My solution of the 1/2 dues for 6 months without charging late fees basically equals a year of 1/2 dues. After a year, then the plan needs to change to catching up plan. Which I would put as pay dues and a 1/2 each month for another 6 months. Still excusing late fees as long as paying and living up to the agreement.

This payment plan is a caveat to our policy. Which was 6 month we filed a lien IF you did not set up a payment plan. We basically advertised the policy of "6 months we lien, 1 year we consider foreclosure". The people who were truly having financial issues could then approach us to set up a payment plan after a meeting. I knew it was those type people who were honest and having true issues. They were most likely the type of person who took debt seriously. We did have open meetings but the collection reports were with the Board members only. If someone questioned why someone was not up with their dues, I would then explain that they had set up a payment plan and we are working with them. Would NOT mention them by name but it allowed people to see we made effort to collect against deadbeats and lenient with people who needed help.

I don't like people missing monthly payments and would charge them the late fees. However, if they knew ahead of time that they would need longer term help, then we set up a payment plan. An ounce of prevention...

Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
I'm sure you'll have an attorney look it over so all are protected.


? The fee for said 'look over' to be paid by whom ?

The broke member ?

Or another loss for the association ?
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 9:43 AM
I'm sure you'll have an attorney look it over so all are protected.


? The fee for said 'look over' to be paid by whom ?

The broke member ?

Or another loss for the association ?

possibly Tim has an attorney on retainer? if not that would need to be determined by the board. I simply agree with Tim's overall approach to his circumstance as it has been described by him. I agree some concerns are valid and in need of consideration. We don't know all the details of the hardship, only Tim does, so it's hard to judge.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Here's what the HOA attorneys rec on their web site:

"RECOMMENDATION: Every HOA billing service, attorney and foreclosure trustee should have a 'partial payment letter' that acknowledges receipt of collection payments but states that acceptance of the payment does NOT cure the owner's default and the collection process will continue until payment in full, including all collection fees and costs, is received (subject to the various prerequisites and thresholds set forth in the Civil Code and as required by California case law)."

Read more: Partial Payments http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/tabid/1417/Default.aspx#ixzz3NsMnsv8J
from Davis-Stirling.com by Adams Kessler PLC.

Our Board has both offered and accepted payment plans --about one per year on average (of 211 condos). Our approach is like NpS', "Tim's approach assures that at least some money will be coming in to the association . . . If the alternative is no money coming in at all, then there is merit to Tim's approach." We have one former owner who's been paying us $100/mo for five years. We knew that's all he could manage and he's paid on time. He still owes us about $2,500.

We think some $$ is better than none. We think it's better for our HOA to lose a little, vs. lose all of it. We also have waived late fees. I suppose "precedence" could become an issue, but that simply has not happened--when on owner has wanted the same plan as one s/he heard about via the grapevine or whatever. But delinquent owners--at least here--don't like to advertise their hardships.

On balance, though, a two-year commitment does seem like a long time in MOST cases. What are the monthly dues, Tim?
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 12:15 AM
All,

I've got a resident who has a financial hardship and has proposed a payment plan for the 2015 assessment (wants to pay over two years). Since, based on Association records, this will be the first time a payment plan has been considered by our Association, I am looking for examples of payment plan agreements.

I understand the concerns of posting such plans in the forum. Therefore, if you have one and are willing to share, my e-mail is: [email protected]

Thank you.

As for general discussion, what terms or concerns should be addressed in such an agreement?

Tim

While this is not an example of a payment plan per se, I thought it may be helpful.

PAYMENT PLAN STANDARDS

These payment standards are adopted to ensure a fair and reasonable approach for the Board in assisting owner's with past due obligations and in promoting the identified objectives whenever possible.

OBJECTIVES:

1. Refrain from interference with ownership rights;
2. Never ostracize, belittle or otherwise impugn the integrity of a delinquent owner(s).
3. Promote a harmonious relationship between delinquent owners and the Board, and members;
4. Cure delinquency as soon as feasible; and
5. Respect the privacy of the delinquent owner(s).

FACTORS FOR CONSIDERATION:

The Board shall consider all relevant factors in determining a payment plan that both promote the objectives identified above including, but not limited to, the following:

1. The circumstance, which has caused the delinquency.
2. Financial, health or other hardship of owner(s).
3. Loss of employment, income or suppport.
4. Divorce or death.
5. Current and future ability to pay.
6. Ability to cure delinquency within 12 months.

STANDARDS:

The Board shall use the following standards when evaluating and deciding on an owner's Request for Payment Plan.

1. The Board shall consider each Request for Payment Plan on a case-by-case basis.
2. The Board shall make best efforts to devise a payment plan that does not exceed (12) months of payments.
3. The Board shall include in the payment plan any future assessment(s) which will become due during the payment plan period.
4. The Board retains the right to modify already agreed upon plans in exceptional cases, where there is a changed circumstance.
6. The Board shall not arbitrarily refuse a reasonable Payment Plan Request.
7. The Board cannot forgive an assessment.

Board of Directors

Homeowners Association

Fiscal Year 2015
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 12:15 AM
All,

I've got a resident who has a financial hardship and has proposed a payment plan for the 2015 assessment (wants to pay over two years). Since, based on Association records, this will be the first time a payment plan has been considered by our Association, I am looking for examples of payment plan agreements.

I understand the concerns of posting such plans in the forum. Therefore, if you have one and are willing to share, my e-mail is: [email protected]

Thank you.

As for general discussion, what terms or concerns should be addressed in such an agreement?

Tim

As for "what terms or concerns should be addressed in such an agreement?"

Standard contract terms should be included. Such as "this payment schedule is enforceable by law and the methods described within will be used in case of delinquent payment". State that the agreement is binding and failure to meet its terms will allow certain recourse (and refer to the recourse/procedure set forth in your governing documents for liens and foreclosure process). Include that the following terms apply "By signing this agreement, all parties agree to the terms as described above. Alterations to this agreement can only be made by both parties and must be in writing".

Those would be my most important concerns to address in a payment agreement. You should be able to come up with an acceptable agreement without having to pay an attorney to write one for you. (The cost to have an attorney look it over and give his/her stamp of approval should be minimal and worth it IMO.)

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Any way you slice it, you are providing an interest free loan to one unit owner for a two year period with monies that do NOT belong to you.

Nor do you have the authority to do so.

As to this assuring some payment such an agreement in fact assures nothing.

To enforce any such contract would require a trip to the court increasing the property's costs even further.

My questions in Tim's case how many units make up his property? How many units are behind in their payments? Will this payment plan be offered to each of them and any future owners who are forced to miss payments.

Any contract entered into by a property which is to be prepared from scratch by two parties must be created or at least reviewed by an attorney.\

To suggest now most Board members have the ability to draft such a legal document properly would be IMO wishful thinking.

And speaking for myself my signature would never be found on such an agreement.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
I would suggest adopting a "Payment Plan Standard" as I gave an example of one, in an above post. Many HOA Boards accept payment plans. I suggested review by an attorney, and never suggested "most Board members have the ability to draft such a legal document" but seem to get the impression Tim would be capable.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
My thanks to all who responded. Definitively food for thought.

To answer a few questions:

Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 01/04/2015 2:00 PM

My questions in Tim's case how many units make up his property? How many units are behind in their payments? Will this payment plan be offered to each of them and any future owners who are forced to miss payments.

We have 130 units. Our Association is extremely fortunate in the fact that we only have 5 lots who are 30 days behind and I expect that those were due to vacations (based on history). Over the past five years, we only have had one account go to collections and that was resolved once the attorney sent a letter. If the same circumstances existed (good payment history, proactive, similar hardship) I would support the same offer to others.

Our Association has offered options in the past for delinquent accounts (waiver of all late charges if brought current by mm/dd/yyyy), so there is some precedence already. This is the first who has been proactive prior to being delinquent in payments.

Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/04/2015 5:54 AM

My initial blush would be come next year will they be able to afford their monthlys for that year and 50% more per month for this year?

Can you accept credit cards? They could pay that way then repay themselves as desired.

Excellent point on the issue of next year. Based on this response, I've pointed that specific issue to the member. I would want them to at least go into such an agreement with their eyes open rather then blinded by a possibility of a short term release. We are not set up to accept credit cards.

Quote:
Posted By NpS on 01/04/2015 6:03 AM

1/2 payments for year 1. Full payments for year 2 plus 1/2 payments from prior year to get caught up. Or are you going to make this an adjust-as-you-go policy? Is anyone going to raise the question of whether the financial problems are temporary enough to be resolved in time for the larger payments?

Although a future board would be bound to any agreement for this years assessment, they would be under no obligation to agree to additional relief for following years. The issue of if the hardship is temporary enough or not (excellent point by the way) is something that I will certainly bring up once the request is officially made to the whole board (which will be in February).

Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 6:32 AM

a written forgiveness plan over a 2 year period?
Is there a line item in your budget for non payers?
Where will the shortfall come from?
Will the membership be informed of said plan?
How do you know the member will be able to pay up the arrears 'next year' when they can't find 1/2 the money NOW?

All good questions. Since we already collect on a monthly basis, spreading the payments beyond a year is really the only option available to help reduce (granted temporarally) the actual payment. We do have a line item in the budget to make up for late payments. This plan would require 1/3 of that line item. Although the minutes would indicate that the Board entered into a payment plan with one member, the details of the actual plan would not be released to the membership and no other mention of the plan (except for executive session minutes) would be publicized to the members. As far as the individuals future ability to pay, there is no real way to tell. I can only go on past performance which has been payments in full and on time.

Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/04/2015 6:32 AM

"While the BOD sympathizes with your predicament, we must enforce the Covenants as written. Unfortunately, we feel it is only appropriate to waive x months late fees, if it would helpful, while you 'catch up' on your obligation to the community.
(add appropriate wording re: expenses / budget / fairness to members)"

Good wording for a response if the Board decides to not enter into a payment plan. Thank you.

Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/04/2015 8:00 AM

I'm sure you'll have an attorney look it over so all are protected.

Actually, we would not. We do not have an attorney on retainer. We have an attorney but pay on work provided. Based on previous issues, such a review would likely cost $150-$300. That amount simply doesn't make it cost effective to the Association. However, we do have a board member who is an attorney and I am fairly positive that they will have comments regarding the wording of any such agreement.

Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/04/2015 2:13 PM
I would suggest adopting a "Payment Plan Standard" as I gave an example of one, in an above post.

We do have a collection policy in place. That policy simply says that the Board has the authority to waive charges and costs of collections on a case by case basis. The standards you provided is a good one and I'll add it to the treasurer files.

This issue is a bit different to me because the member is approaching the Board prior to being delinquent in payments. The Association has forgiven late charges in the past to those who have gone almost a year with zero payments (in an effort to resolve the issue prior to sending it to collections). As others have said, it may be best to have some money come in then no money at all. Fortunately, it's not my decision to make. It's a board decision. Serving as Treasurer, I was simply the one contacted by the member.

I thank everyone. Every post had good discussion points and ones that I'm sure will be raised in the Boards discussion on the issue.

Tim
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tim, I too question the length of the repayment plan but in reality it would be the same as if he missed six months payments and repaid them over a year. One thing in whatever agreement you come to, the carrot is allowing the repayment plan, the stick would be if he failed to follow it - would be everything becomes due and payable including late fees and any other legal expenses required to collect.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/04/2015 3:01 PM
We have 130 units. Our Association is extremely fortunate in the fact that we only have 5 lots who are 30 days behind and I expect that those were due to vacations (based on history). Over the past five years, we only have had one account go to collections and that was resolved once the attorney sent a letter. If the same circumstances existed (good payment history, proactive, similar hardship) I would support the same offer to others.

Our Association has offered options in the past for delinquent accounts (waiver of all late charges if brought current by mm/dd/yyyy), so there is some precedence already. This is the first who has been proactive prior to being delinquent in payments.


Tim

Your collections history is admirable. And you have managed to do it without unnecessary cost. Certainly, there is history that supports some form of temporary waiver. I'm sure you will come up with something that is fitting.

My only recommendation is that you label it a "pilot program." We do it when we are trying something new and aren't sure which way things will end up. As a pilot, there is no commitment to make the same offer to anyone else - and there is a prior understanding that the program will be terminated if the outcome does not work out as initially intended. Anything more could create false expectations.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Our community has had such cases and each case was unique. The one thing you have going for your community is that the owner recognized a problem and is being proactive about solving the problem. The only caution I can offer is that any payment plan should also stipulate what will happen if the owner fails to follow through on payments. We had a case where the HOA set up a payment plan and then the owner was hit or miss (would pay for a month or two and then miss a payment and then make a payment, etc.) I agree that if you now offer payment plans to delinquent owners then you will have to keep it a consistent process and offer payment plans to all owners who become delinquent or who are currently delinquent.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Keep in mind that in the event of a foreclosure you are unlikely to be first in line. Make whatever agreement everyone is comfortable with and keep your fingers crossed. By taking it easy you will get some percentage of something as opposed to one hundred percent of nothing if you play hardball.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
It's admirable that you would remove the interest if they live up to the contract, so may I too sign up for this type of plan? If all 130 homes end up on this type of payment plan, will the HOA still be flush?

There are too many people who don't give a bunny's tail about why a neighbor needs to go on a plan such as this, they will however want the same treatment, so I'm not sure the methodology of OPM is a good idea. It seems that you would have to put in place some type of steep penalty because they need this help.

It is great they came to you first, but they too would have to understand the importance of any "pilot program", (great suggestion NPS).
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Although a future board would be bound to any agreement for this years assessment, they would be under no obligation to agree to additional relief for following years. The issue of if the hardship is temporary enough or not (excellent point by the way) is something that I will certainly bring up once the request is officially made to the whole board (which will be in February).


They may NOT be bound by an improper agreement.

The board MAKING said agreement, if in contravention to the Covenants, may become PERSONALLY responsible.

Simply FOLLOW THE COVENANTS.

ps. 'my' Covenants use the word 'shall' several times regarding the HOA's duties re: assessments
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Tim, I agree with Larry's reasoning.

Also, it's rare and admirable for an owner to be proactive in a situation like this. We never had it happen, lots of times they need to be chased. I feel you and your board should work with this individual, if his unfortunate circumstances are validated and qualify as a hardship. After all he could have just fallen behind, not paid anything and then come to your board asking for a payment plan. (You said your board has authority to decide on a case by case basis and have done this in the past, although it hasn't happened very often.) Why punish this guy for doing the right thing?

You're lucky to have an attorney on your board, must come in handy at times at least for basic questions.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Tim's previous 'board' was (under) declarant control.

Let the actual Covenants govern.

No 'thinking' involved.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/05/2015 8:58 AM
Tim's previous 'board' was (under) declarant control.

Let the actual Covenants govern.

No 'thinking' involved.

Looking back I must correct myself, I don't see Tim stating anywhere that his board had used a "Payment Plan" in the past. Melissa and others did. He didn't say he or his Board were opposed to using one. I don't understand what a previous board being under declarant control has to do with this matter?

At times court decisions are made under Judicial Discretion. Things aren't always meant to be black and white. IMO thinking is always required.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 01/05/2015 5:35 AM

so may I too sign up for this type of plan?

If you have the exact or similar circumstances and bring it to the Board's attention prior to being delinquent in payments, I would support it.

Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 01/05/2015 5:35 AM

If all 130 homes end up on this type of payment plan, will the HOA still be flush?

Obviously not.

Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 01/05/2015 5:35 AM

There are too many people who don't give a bunny's tail about why a neighbor needs to go on a plan such as this, they will however want the same treatment, so I'm not sure the methodology of OPM is a good idea.

Certainly a true statement. This is why we would notate entering a payment plan in the minutes (which nobody really reads outside the Board and not provide details or other mention of it. Of course, that won't help if a Board member or the individual requesting assistance tells someone (even though they should not).

Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 01/05/2015 5:35 AM

It seems that you would have to put in place some type of steep penalty because they need this help.

Our late charge is 10% of the assessment. Payments are applied first to charges and then to assessments. In working out the math, the total late charges would be:

at 6 months: 69.58
at 12 months: 373.73
at 18 months: 956.63
at 24 months: 1,801.72

As you can see, there will certainly be a steep penalty for not complying with such a payment plan (paying 1/2 payment per month over 2 years). This would be in addition to approx $500+ in legal fees and other costs of collections once the issue would be turned over to the attorney (which in my mind would be done automatically).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 01/05/2015 8:58 AM
Tim's previous 'board' was (under) declarant control.

Let the actual Covenants govern.

No 'thinking' involved.

John, we haven't been under Declarant control for 30 years.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AmandaR2 on 01/05/2015 9:19 AM

Looking back I must correct myself, I don't see Tim stating anywhere that his board had used a "Payment Plan" in the past.

I did say that we have waived late fees in the past for others. Typically it's only a month or two.

However, when I first took over being treasurer, the board agreed to waive all late charges to two members who were a year or more behind. This was my suggestion and done as a show of good will (since the previous treasurer/Board didn't pursue delinquent accounts). Basically, we approached the individual and said that the Board has already approved for the issue to be sent to the attorney on mm/dd/yyyy and you have two options to keep this from happening:

1) Pay the amount due by mm/dd/yyyy.
2) Pay the amount due plus the current year in full by mm/dd/yyyy and the board will waive all late charges not paid.

Both individuals accepted option 2.
1 member asked for additional time and we agreed to a 3 month extension providing they paid 1/2 now.

As I said, there is some precedence for payment plans.
The difference is, that this member is being proactive vs simply not paying.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
.....oops

sorry Tim

confused you with another poster



still don't 'buy into' a written 2 year plan
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Tim I am curious just what do your monthly CCs run?

And over 12 months at 1/2 rate that would free up _____________ dollars which pulls the property owner out of their hole.

We now have a foreclosure action on a unit owner who was offered several plans to catch up her payments. She failed to live up to any of them.
Her story was she simply did not have the money.

She drives a newer model car and does not hold a job. And once while walking through town I see her in the local nail salon getting a pedicure by she can't find a way to pay her share of the expenses to support the property. Your inability to manage your personal finances does not constitute cause to have you relieved of your monetary obligations. And to expect your neighbors to cover your shortfall for two years.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
All

We have had an owner about 2 years behind in her dues. The Declarant/Property Manager wrote her letter after letter. He placed liens on her. She even showed up an owners meeting and asked for permission for an ACC change. We all shook our heads and wondered what she did not understand about all this.

Within 10 days of a letter from our lawyer threatening foreclosure, she arranged a 6 month payment plan. Some people have to be "slapped" up side the head.

KimR4 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posted:
I am on a 5 member Board of a 7-year old 30 condo unit development. We are all new-ish to condo ownership and Board service. Two of us are in our third year of BOD service. We use a simple guideline for decision making. 1) we follow our by-laws - CCRs, governing docs etc. 2) we take care of our shared common areas. 3) we pass a budget each year that takes care of business. 4) we don't make any decisions that a future board could not follow/support/understand. Primarily, our decisions are uncomplicated.

Tim, when I first read your post, I thought "we could never do that - it's too complicated". It would require unrealistic diligence and comprehension on the part of our board and could cause issues with other owners.

AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 01/05/2015 3:50 PM
Tim I am curious just what do your monthly CCs run?

And over 12 months at 1/2 rate that would free up _____________ dollars which pulls the property owner out of their hole.

We now have a foreclosure action on a unit owner who was offered several plans to catch up her payments. She failed to live up to any of them.
Her story was she simply did not have the money.

She drives a newer model car and does not hold a job. And once while walking through town I see her in the local nail salon getting a pedicure by she can't find a way to pay her share of the expenses to support the property. Your inability to manage your personal finances does not constitute cause to have you relieved of your monetary obligations. And to expect your neighbors to cover your shortfall for two years.


While I can see your reason (Jon) for being infuriated by the example you gave, and I'm sure we're all familiar with similar cases. It doesn't sound like the Tim's case as he has described. While the two year timeline seems a little long, if it's complied with I still feel it's better to have some money coming in than none. He has penalties in place if the agreement is not followed. We don't know all the details of the owners problem (and I wouldn't expect them to be shared on an open forum) so we can only assume it's legit.

Hypothetically speaking Jon, If you had an owner with a perfect payment record for many years and they had a legit hardship (death of spouse, serious illness, accident etc) and they came to you with a similar plan to get back on their feet, what would you tell them or offer them? What would your actual solution be?
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Tim,

I'd weigh the hardship before granting a 24-month waiver of reduced payment. If it's concerning delinquent dues, then consider it since your board can simply proceed with collections in the event of default on the new deal.

I think our HOA board will create a six-month hardship consideration and then renew or reconsider the arrangement. I'd hate to see the board grant two years away with little flexibility.

No, this isn't much of an answer but it's something.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
But, Kim, in my HOA world, payment plans have not caused problems; they are not complicated. In fact, I think we even are required to offer them in CA (need to check). Delinquencies are confidential. Neighbors don't know.

Our first step is to withhold access to amenities per our CC&Rs, but not all HOAs have any to withhold. Usually works here--especially keeping their guests out of our underground Visitor Parking in our urban high rid.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Again, I thank everyone for their postings. Good points of issue were raised and I'm positive there will be similar discussions within our Board.

Our Board won't consider the issue until February (our next meeting) and, like the member, I'm trying to be proactive as well so issues can be identified and a written agreement can be drafted for the Board to consider.

To answer Jon's question, the current assessment is under $100 per month.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Tim--that had been my question too. I know it's all relative, but two years still seems too long to me.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/05/2015 6:03 PM

I know it's all relative, but two years still seems too long to me.

I'm quoting Kerry, but I the question goes to everyone who has said that two years is simply too long of a time frame.

What would you suggest would be an appropriate amount of time (keeping in mind that our assessments are paid monthly per our CC&Rs)?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
First, in CA Boards are not required to offer payment plans as I'd thought. Boards do need to meet with an owner in executive session if an Owner requests such a meeting to discuss payment plan.

Second, well, Tim I mentioned above a couple--former owners-- who've been paying us $100/mo for a very long time. So, we have done that once in 8 years. And we also have had--still do, another couple--still owners who start a plan, pay for a while, fall off, we withhold privileges we lien, they catch up and on it goes.
I guess I'd lean towards a two-year plan with a required reevaluation in one year. If this owner cannot scrape up a modest monthly now--what will change so that he can pay$100/mo in the future?

I don't see it as unfair to other owners. I do see it as doing what you can--as a board--to at least keep some funds coming in. I do think you meet your fiduciary oblations by getting the best shake you can for your HOA. (and you know I'm not a lawyer.)
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Please remind us Tim:
How much are monthly fees?
How much would it cost for a lawyer or collection agency if you had to go that route?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
AmandaR2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 566
Posted:
Generally speaking I'd aim for 6 months, try not to exceed 1 year. I personally wouldn't have a problem agreeing to your 2-year plan for a deserving person and keeping in mind that you pay monthly. In my mind, that would be much better than going through the foreclosure process and suffering its effect on property values. (Not to mention the effect on the owner who just may have bounced back had you given them the opportunity.)

I don't feel we as a Board "serve" property, IMO we maintain and improve property. It's our community we "serve" which consists of our neighbors. I don't think we should use the same mentality a utility company would. Sometimes you have to be tough to get results, not always.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 01/05/2015 7:15 PM
Please remind us Tim:
How much are monthly fees?
How much would it cost for a lawyer or collection agency if you had to go that route?

Assessment less than $100 per month

Legal costs for collection (having just gone through one) $500+
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
So let's round this off to $100 per month although it it is less.

$1,200 per year and the owner says they can afford to pay only 1/2.

Which leaves them an extra $50 per month or $600 per year.

And for that minimal amount this Board should draft a contract, pay a lawyer $500, wait two years for payment and risk a prolonged entanglement should the owner fail to pay. Set precedent which might obligate this same accommodation for any other owner and bring into question any future late fees charged by the association on any other owner.

IMO not knowing the details if $50 per month throws you off the deep end there are serious issues in your finances.

And trying not to sound mercenary running an HOA is a business not a charitable enterprise. Entering a two year agreement over $50 per month does not serve the HOA.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/05/2015 7:38 PM
Assessment less than $100 per month
Legal costs for collection (having just gone through one) $500+


Annual budget ~ $150k
Requested deferral = $50 x 12 mos = $600 = 0.4% of annual budget = relatively inconsequential considering your collections history.

Would not try to shorten the requested deferral period.

But I do think that the questions need to be asked again: What happens in year 2? Will HO be able to pay $150 per month?

The nagging questions I have been thinking about are these - Did HO ask for a year because everyone (you included) is looking at things one year at a time? Or did HO ask for a year because of reasonable expectation of full recovery in a year? Or something else?

Your primary goal I'm sure is that HO is successful in repayment. How can you do that if you don't know how much time HO really needs? That's the piece of the puzzle that's missing - and I don't think we can help you with the answer.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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