related to background checks.

Started by BonnieG1 • 71 replies • 5139 views

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BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Some time ago, I posted about a potential problem with one of our owners. Some people on here told me to MYOB. I replied by stating what happens in this building is my business as President of the Association.

If people are not causing a problem and obeying our rules and regulations, I don't care what they do. But if someone causes a problem that is my business.

Now an update on this owner. This problem owner assaulted a pizza delivery man today. I notice police knocking on someone's door as I was going to get the mail. I thought this older resident had an emergency and I was preparing to get my master key to let the police into her unit.

She did not have a medical emergency, she had just called the police to report the assault. The pizza delivery man was still here and I understand the assault happened shortly before I came home.

The police checked the assaulter's driver's license and told me that he was a convicted felon. They said if he signed he had not been convicted of a felony we could kivk him out for misrepresentation. I checked the files from when he moved into his unit and there was nothing like this that he signed in his file.

I know when I was Secretary registering the people I registered had to mark and sign that they had never been convicted of a felony.

I am more or less just venting as we will put installing security cameras to a vote of the members at the annual meeting and we have an Association lawyer and a lawyer-owner on site to ask for advise regarding this issue.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here is the rub... Most forms ask if you were convicted of a crime BUT ONLY in the COUNTY/City paperwork is being signed. Found that out when renting an apartment once.

I am still not sure you have the ability to kick him out. This is a civil matter not a police one when it comes to evictions. The assault is a police matter...

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Didn't the pizza deliverer file a complaint with the police??

I agree with Melissa, I d not believe that your HOA has the authority to "kick out" an owner.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/23/2014 5:19 PM
Didn't the pizza deliverer file a complaint with the police??

I agree with Melissa, I d not believe that your HOA has the authority to "kick out" an owner.

Yes, a police report was filed. I am going to the police station when I have time and get a copy.
The delivery man was still here when I came home and the policemen were taking information.
I have to agree that we don't have authority to kick out an owner. However, if he had given I forget the legal name for it, but wrong information on purpose there may have been a possibility we could have. Our PM advised us even if we could it would be an expensive process.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/23/2014 6:17 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/23/2014 5:19 PM
Didn't the pizza deliverer file a complaint with the police??

I agree with Melissa, I d not believe that your HOA has the authority to "kick out" an owner.

Police generally file their report from the perspective of the person filing the complaint. So if the owner got to the phone before the delivery guy, report is not likely to be of much help to you.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

The delivery person is listed as the victim in the report. The man who assaulted the delivery driver was nowhere around when the police were filing the report.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Whether he has a felony or not, or whether he outright lies on any form he fills out for you, there is no legal remedy.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 12/23/2014 8:21 PM
Whether he has a felony or not, or whether he outright lies on any form he fills out for you, there is no legal remedy.

I can think of a possible legal remedy. If the man is a sex offender he is living too close to a school. Of course without being certain what he was convicted for we can't use this.

Also I will check with a lawyer (probably the lawyer-owner who has evicted more than one person during her career and gives us free advise as a concerned owner.)

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/24/2014 2:00 PM
<

I can think of a possible legal remedy. If the man is a sex offender he is living too close to a school. Of course without being certain what he was convicted for we can't use this.

Also I will check with a lawyer (probably the lawyer-owner who has evicted more than one person during her career and gives us free advise as a concerned owner.)

You got me there, although that isn't a case for any HOA to police or enforce. That is a criminal matter and the authorities should be notified.

There are many services that will give you criminal records for a nominal fee. State records can normally be individually search for free.

AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 12/24/2014 8:42 PM

Yes you can search multiple states if you want but do not forget that anyone can be convicted of a felony AFTER he or she moves in.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Yes, someone can be convicted of a felony after he or she moves in. However, this persons behavior from the first month he moved here would lead me to believe that he had been convicted before he bought his unit.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Bonnie, I'm not in the criminal justice or legal professions, but I still do not think a convicted felony background can keep anyone from purchasing a home in an HOA.

Others have advised you on how you can check his background. But I'm not sure where your sex offender idea came from?? If he is a convicted sex offender, then what will you do? I think in the past you thought he deals drugs??

What you're concerned about today is today's problems. And there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he is a criminal today. And even if he is, I don't think your Board can "evict" an owner.

Your attorney neighbor probably was involved, I'm only guessing, in evicting a tenant.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/24/2014 2:00 PM

Posted By MarkM31 on 12/23/2014 8:21 PM
Whether he has a felony or not, or whether he outright lies on any form he fills out for you, there is no legal remedy.

Have you looked on the Nebraska Sex Offender Registry? If he is on there this may be a way to get rid of the guy but definitely consult an attorney. I am not a lawyer or versed in Nebraska sex offender laws just agreeing with you that it may be an avenue to explore.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/25/2014 2:34 PM
Bonnie, I'm not in the criminal justice or legal professions, but I still do not think a convicted felony background can keep anyone from purchasing a home in an HOA.

Others have advised you on how you can check his background. But I'm not sure where your sex offender idea came from?? If he is a convicted sex offender, then what will you do? I think in the past you thought he deals drugs??

What you're concerned about today is today's problems. And there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he is a criminal today. And even if he is, I don't think your Board can "evict" an owner.

Your attorney neighbor probably was involved, I'm only guessing, in evicting a tenant.

Your guess is wrong. The attorney neighbor has never been involved in evicting anyone form our building. I know that she has evicted people.

The idea of a possible sex offender came form the proximity of the school to our building. I don't really think he is a sex offender, but if he were we could report him to the police regarding a sex offender living so close to a school.

I have called the drug detail of the police department more than once describing activity in and around our building such as multiple visitors to his unit. They told me that is an indication of drug dealing. Other people even before I moved here or the problem owner moved here have told me a variety of visitors to one address is a good clue that drug deals may be taking place.
A few weeks ago someone placed on a bulletin board a note about drug deals in his unit. We removed that immediately.

Also the day of the assault, I passed him in the hall on his floor and he was wearing a t-shirt advertising drugs.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

The BB note is interesting. I hope you kept it for your records. I wonder if someone posted it to let your board know there're drug deals going on in his unit?? Or do you think he actually was advertising drugs for sale??

Yes, it's well known that frequent short visits to homes by lots people CAN be a sign of drug dealing. But in and of itself, it is not evidence so far as I know. I don't think a t-shirt is either. But I'm curious. What does the t-shirt say?

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Drug dealing? If you could prove that, perhaps you could evict him for operating a business from his unit.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/25/2014 4:25 PM
The BB note is interesting. I hope you kept it for your records. I wonder if someone posted it to let your board know there're drug deals going on in his unit?? Or do you think he actually was advertising drugs for sale??

Yes, it's well known that frequent short visits to homes by lots people CAN be a sign of drug dealing. But in and of itself, it is not evidence so far as I know. I don't think a t-shirt is either. But I'm curious. What does the t-shirt say?

Yes, I scanned the note into my computer and I think I kept the hard copy. My guess is that it was posted so that the Board would know about it. But without proof it is just a "he said - she said" situation.

I don't remember the exact words that the T-shirt said but it was something like "ask me, I have drugs."

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 12/25/2014 6:02 PM
Drug dealing? If you could prove that, perhaps you could evict him for operating a business from his unit.

I don't think we can evict for operating a business from a unit. We can't even fine because that is not on our fine schedule. I started to prepare amendment to our fine schedule that might cover this, but again without proof our hands are tied.

When we called him before the Board for the closed meeting to discuss problems his visitors have been causing he wore a T-shirt that said something to the effect of no search without a warrant.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

I don't think you could evict him if he was selling drugs, wearing pornographic t-shirts and having sex with chickens all at the same time. He legally owns his unit, and you can't force him out.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 12/25/2014 8:22 PM
I don't think you could evict him if he was selling drugs, wearing pornographic t-shirts and having sex with chickens all at the same time. He legally owns his unit, and you can't force him out.

We may not be able to evict him, but if there were proof that he was dealing drugs, the police could take him away. But then he would probably just go through the revolving door and be back here in not time.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

T-shirts! Oh the horror!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

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MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/22/2014 7:41 PM

The police checked the assaulter's driver's license and told me that he was a convicted felon. They said if he signed he had not been convicted of a felony we could kivk him out for misrepresentation. I checked the files from when he moved into his unit and there was nothing like this that he signed in his file.

Worse advice ever. He's an owner with a recorded deed.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Back to your potential surveillance cameras, Bonnie. If there is someone to monitor the cameras or their tapes, you may get a sense of exactly how many and who visits this unit. It may be fewer than you & others think.

But why are you asking the Owners to vote on installing them? In most HOAs,,, this would be a pure & simple board decision. Is it that their purchase, etc., would exceed some kind of annual budget limit that's in your documents or state laws?

I remember you once posting that a previous president had something like 18 items for H/Os to vote on in one year. And it sounded like you (as I) thought that was an unneeded approach.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 12/25/2014 8:32 PM
T-shirts! Oh the horror!

Personally I could care less what the man has on his t shirt or if he goes shirtless.
What I do care about is the safety of our residents. Especially since his neighbor has threatened to get a gun to protect herself. When she told me that I was just as concerned she could cause a problem as I was concerned that he could cause a problem.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/26/2014 12:01 PM
Back to your potential surveillance cameras, Bonnie. If there is someone to monitor the cameras or their tapes, you may get a sense of exactly how many and who visits this unit. It may be fewer than you & others think.

But why are you asking the Owners to vote on installing them? In most HOAs,,, this would be a pure & simple board decision. Is it that their purchase, etc., would exceed some kind of annual budget limit that's in your documents or state laws?

I remember you once posting that a previous president had something like 18 items for H/Os to vote on in one year. And it sounded like you (as I) thought that was an unneeded approach.

Installing security cameras is a large capital expense. All members need to vote on additions that are large capital expenses. The Board will review and recommend, but it definitely needs to be a member vote. At least in NE it does.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Just curious, Bonnie. How does NE define a "large capital expense?" A certain percent of your annual budget? Or something that would raise H/Os' dues a certain percent--say 20% or more?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/26/2014 2:33 PM
Posted By MarkM31 on 12/25/2014 8:32 PM
T-shirts! Oh the horror!

Then take action against the old broad with the gun, second amendment not withstanding

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/26/2014 5:22 PM
Just curious, Bonnie. How does NE define a "large capital expense?" A certain percent of your annual budget? Or something that would raise H/Os' dues a certain percent--say 20% or more?

I am afraid I did not communicate correctly. The Board can use the capital reserve for things like replacing large items such as the roof or the elevator. But if it is an addition (perhaps like a swimming pool in the warmer climates) such as installing security cameras it needs a member vote. I will have to review our documents and the NE state law to give you and exact answer. I don't have time this weekend to review these with everything else that has happened this week.

I drove around in circles today looking for the police station to get the police report. There was a plumbing problem in our building and the employee of our PM that might have been able to provide a temporary fix was on vacation. A plumbing company was called and fixed the problem in the unit which caused another problem in our community laundry room. I am going to meet the PM and the plumbing company tomorrow.
Those a just a couple of the problems.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Bonnie just a little friendly advice, concentrate on the plumbing problem which IS HOA business and let the police deal with the assault and possible drug dealing which is police business.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Bonnie,

Should I have occasion to enter your HOA, where do I register/drop off my passport ?

? nowhere ?

then MYOB and let law enforcement mind theirs

neither you, nor the BOD, are lawkeepers ~ merely maintenance officers for the common areas

sorry (not) for the tough love

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

At our annual meeting February 2014 our members voted for the Board to pursue getting security cameras. The idea of security cameras has been floating around for over a year. We did not just decide to check on security cameras due to the assault incident. But the police who took the report did tell us that security cameras are good to have and that they are a deterrent to illegal activity.

The cameras would not invade anyone's private area, they would just be placed in the common areas or our three story 43 unit condominium building. We have had petty thefts, a car stolen from our garage, and cars that were parked outside broken into. If we needed to could give the police some videos and yes let them deal with it

Some posters here are so quick to assume things. I didn't realize I had to give our complete history to get reasonable responses.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 12/26/2014 10:43 PM
Bonnie just a little friendly advice, concentrate on the plumbing problem which IS HOA business and let the police deal with the assault and possible drug dealing which is police business.

I wish I could just concentrate on the plumbing issue which I was doing yesterday evening and today. I agree that the police need to deal with the possible drug dealing issue. That is why I have called the drug enforcement unit of the police department more that once. I know that the police can not just go barging into someone's home.
I have told our residents/owners if the police can't do anything about the possible drug dealing we can't do anything about it.

It just gets frustrating for me when someone complains to me thinking that the Board should do something.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 12/27/2014 7:34 AM
Bonnie,

Should I have occasion to enter your HOA, where do I register/drop off my passport ?

? nowhere ?

then MYOB and let law enforcement mind theirs

neither you, nor the BOD, are lawkeepers ~ merely maintenance officers for the common areas

sorry (not) for the tough love

Our documents require all new owners/residents to register with the Secretary. We do tell them how to contact the Secretary and let the Secretary know someone new will be moving it. The forms are quite simple.
Name, where should notices be mailed, who will be living in the unit. And then check that they understand no animals, no live in chidren, no felony conviction, and on ore two others that I don't remember off hand.

If I remember correctly, for forms also indicate the amount of the monthly fee and when due. And the owner/residents signs that they will abide by our rules and regulations.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 556

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/27/2014 9:28 AM

Our documents require all new owners/residents to register with the Secretary. We do tell them how to contact the Secretary and let the Secretary know someone new will be moving it. The forms are quite simple.
Name, where should notices be mailed, who will be living in the unit. And then check that they understand no animals, no live in chidren, no felony conviction, and on ore two others that I don't remember off hand.

If I remember correctly, for forms also indicate the amount of the monthly fee and when due. And the owner/residents signs that they will abide by our rules and regulations.

The CC&R's can limit what a owner does (pets, no children with-in the legal limits, etc), but can't enforceably limit who an owner is (felon). You can have forms up the ying-yang, but if somebody doesn't want to sign them, then what?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

By the time the new Owner registers with you it is too late. S/he already OWNS the unit in your HOA. It matters not a bit WHAT they put on the form or leave out. Now if it's contact info, which our high rise requires too, you or your PM can keep nagging the new person for this emergency info. But you cannot nag them to accurately fill out their convicted felon status.

I do think it's worth while finding our what you limit is for capital expenditures are that only need Board approval. And what must have owners' votes. It's not a matter of whether it's already a reserves component or a "new" expense, it is: what is the legal lid for you board? Your PM may know.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

The underlined is reasonable for mailing and dues purposes IF actually in your CCRs.

However, the records of the new owners become public documents upon recording at the county seat ~ periodically y'all should verify membership ANYWAY.

Your Covenants and Restriction actually specify no felony convictions? Or is that merely a 'made up feel good BS rule'. What happens if an owner were to be convicted of a felony? Then were to be exonerated on appeal? Would they remain homeless? Oops, there I go again with the obvious!

Aaaah, the usual 'and one or two others that I don't remember offhand'. Make SURE y'all obey them TO THE LETTER.

I double dare you to post a link to your actual CCRs. All else is toric ka-ka.

Triple dare with sugar on top.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

John,
The box to check for no felony conviction might be a made up rule. I don't remember reading anything about no felony conviction in our documents or even in NE state law.

Previous Boards did make up some rules such as lowering the age of residency to 50. All units must be owner occupied and no for sale signs in our yard. The current Board basically ignores these made up rules and it looks like we may need to revise our registration forms.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Bad thing about the cameras though, it will catch things that happen in the hallways like all the little busy bodies with nothing better to do hanging around his door trying to get the goods on him. Peeping through his keyhole, listening, water glass or stethoscope pressed tight to the door in an effort to hear what's going on.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 12/27/2014 5:18 PM
Bad thing about the cameras though, it will catch things that happen in the hallways like all the little busy bodies with nothing better to do hanging around his door trying to get the goods on him. Peeping through his keyhole, listening, water glass or stethoscope pressed tight to the door in an effort to hear what's going on.

I don't really think there are people here doing that. No one needs to hang around his door to notice his visitors coming and going. One can just be walking down the hall to the elevator and notice visitors who may be gong to his unit. We are more or less like family and know many of each other's visitors and family members.

The lady who lives next to him definitely did not have to listen by his door. Noise coming from her unit was keeping her awake at night. She is still working full time and this was quite a bother to her.

I did tell her to call me whenever he was making a lot of noise no matter what time of night. This way I could here for myself and would not just have to take her word for it. Another Board member also told her the same thing, but she has never called either of us.

Also his neighbor told me things have quieted down since the Board met with him. We had to address problems his visitors were giving us. When his visitors come knocking on other peoples doors to complain about him, why in the ever loving world would we want to stand by his door.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/27/2014 2:03 PM
John,
The box to check for no felony conviction might be a made up rule. I don't remember reading anything about no felony conviction in our documents or even in NE state law.

Previous Boards did make up some rules such as lowering the age of residency to 50. All units must be owner occupied and no for sale signs in our yard. The current Board basically ignores these made up rules and it looks like we may need to revise our registration forms.

DOH

The CCRs are in charge NOT the BOD !

The BOD's only function is to ADMINISTER the CCRs as they pertain to the COMMON ELEMENTS.

DOH

The facts will EVENTUALLY become known.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Bonnie both of my replies were made "tongue in cheek" a little Yuletide humor so to speak. There are things the BOD has the power to do and things it doesn't, from your myriad of posts focusing on trying to evict someone you clearly have no power to evict I have to wonder if you're not venturing into an obsession ala Capt. Ahab with this person your Great White Whale?

When the homeowners demand the Board do something about him, tell them the truth, the Board can't. Sometimes the "bad folks" know enough of the laws and in your case the CC&R's to skate right on the line. In fact I would venture to say that for every failed attempt to oust him, he wins.

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. George Bernard Shaw

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 12/27/2014 9:08 PM
Bonnie both of my replies were made "tongue in cheek" a little Yuletide humor so to speak. There are things the BOD has the power to do and things it doesn't, from your myriad of posts focusing on trying to evict someone you clearly have no power to evict I have to wonder if you're not venturing into an obsession ala Capt. Ahab with this person your Great White Whale?

When the homeowners demand the Board do something about him, tell them the truth, the Board can't. Sometimes the "bad folks" know enough of the laws and in your case the CC&R's to skate right on the line. In fact I would venture to say that for every failed attempt to oust him, he wins.

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it. George Bernard Shaw

Glen,
sorry for being so sensitive. I know and knew we have no power to evict an owner. The police who were here mentioned it and I basically told them we could not evict an owner.

Some years ago before I was on the Board and I may not have even lived here at the time, the President wrote a letter threatening to evict our CCO. During his time of Presidency there were "made up rules." He actually told me that he told a problem off site owner that he could not vote at the annual meeting unless he lived on property.
When talking to the previous President about this, I informed the Previous President that all owners can vote. The previous President responded by basically saying it was okay to lie if it were for the "good of the House."
Someone did tell me that he and the Vice-President had decided to make their own rules. Of course this is just hear say but from the made up rules during his Presidency it is believable.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 12/27/2014 8:06 PM
Posted By BonnieG1 on 12/27/2014 2:03 PM
John,
The box to check for no felony conviction might be a made up rule. I don't remember reading anything about no felony conviction in our documents or even in NE state law.

Previous Boards did make up some rules such as lowering the age of residency to 50. All units must be owner occupied and no for sale signs in our yard. The current Board basically ignores these made up rules and it looks like we may need to revise our registration forms.

DOH

The CCRs are in charge NOT the BOD !

The BOD's only function is to ADMINISTER the CCRs as they pertain to the COMMON ELEMENTS.

DOH

The facts will EVENTUALLY become known.

I agree with you 100% The facts did become know when Board members actually read our documents and checked the NE laws. I was actually the person who found the NE condos laws with the help of a poster on this site. I mentioned I was going to the library to find the laws and someone on this site gave me a link to NE laws.

It also helps to have a lawyer/owner. This lawyer put a for sale sign up when she put her unit on the market She was going to try to buy another unit in the building. Another owner called to "tattle" on her about the sign in the yard due to the previous "made up" rule.

This lawyer also helped us reverse an illegal amendment vote.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

soooooooooooooooooo ........

the bottom line is still:

the BOD should mind its own business

and

let the police mind theirs

DOH

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

First, I want to tell you bonnie that I know how sincere you are about helping govern your HOA. How many other directors are there? Are they supportive?

Next, you wrote: "I did tell her to call me whenever he was making a lot of noise no matter what time of night. This way I could here for myself and would not just have to take her word for it. Another Board member also told her the same thing, but she has never called either of us."

If you have noise nuisance covenants r rules or even simply "nuisance" convents or rules, Your Board can call this man to a hearing to cease and desist his rules violation about noise. I believe you've written this has helped him tone down his behavior in the past. You might even be able to double his fines if your docs say it's OK for repeated violations of this rule. If your docs permit, you can fine him.

Key, though, is that the neighbor phone you and perhaps an additional director to be witnesses to this noise. No reason not to lean on him if he violates your rules!!!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

No reason not to lean on him if he violates your rules!!!

Wrong.

The BODs have 'made up' many rules along the way w/o regard to the actual covenant(s).

Right: ".....if he violates the covenants!!!"

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/28/2014 8:32 AM
First, I want to tell you bonnie that I know how sincere you are about helping govern your HOA. How many other directors are there? Are they supportive?

Next, you wrote: "I did tell her to call me whenever he was making a lot of noise no matter what time of night. This way I could here for myself and would not just have to take her word for it. Another Board member also told her the same thing, but she has never called either of us."

If you have noise nuisance covenants r rules or even simply "nuisance" convents or rules, Your Board can call this man to a hearing to cease and desist his rules violation about noise. I believe you've written this has helped him tone down his behavior in the past. You might even be able to double his fines if your docs say it's OK for repeated violations of this rule. If your docs permit, you can fine him.

Key, though, is that the neighbor phone you and perhaps an additional director to be witnesses to this noise. No reason not to lean on him if he violates your rules!!!

There are four other directors who are mostly supportive especially on the issue with this man. We do have a state law and this state law is repeated in our documents that a person is to be able to peacefully enjoy themselves. Not exactly the way it is worded but that is the meaning of the law. But at this time. we don't have fines in our fine schedule for excessive noise.

All directors do not always agree with me on every issue I bring up. But that is why we have five directors. It was a nightmare when we only had three and two were a married couple. Especially when thee President (wife of the couple) had the idea it had to be her way or no way and that I was subservice because I didn't agree with her all the time.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Well, JohnB. many of "our" HOA Rules and Regs were "made up" by the Board because our CC&Rs say that the board may craft, revise, delete rules as does our Rule & Regs gov. doc. In CA, this requires sending the change out to H/Os for a 30-day comment period before the Board actually votes to approve (or not) the change.

We, like Bonnie, are a multi-story HOA, so noise nuisances matter a lot and are our most frequent complaint (perhaps 6x a year for 211 units). Our actual covenants forbid loud noise, etc. and also includes the "peaceful enjoyment of the premises" clauses. Our rules elaborate on this noise nuisance topic.

What you should try to do, Bonnie, is learn how to legally add rules to your HOA in NE. And learn how to add a fine schedule per NE statutes. The first thing to know is that a new rule may not contradict anything in your CC&Rs (covenants), Article of Inc., or bylaws. In addition, a new rule nay not contradict your municipal codes.

The For Sale (Lease or Exchange) signs are a good example. Your HOA may want to prohibit them, but your muni codes might say (as in my city) that you cannot forbid them. The municipal might go on to say that you can limit their size, number, how long they stay up.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

James,

If we were going to accuse the man of drug dealing we would have done it when we called him before the Board due the problems his visitors were causing. I know we need facts before we accuse anyone of anything.
Also the "alleged" assault happened AFTER he came before the board.

June 28, 2014 one of his visitors knocked on my door (how is THAT contradicting ANYTHING) and told me he had her purse and was not giving it back to him. She wanted to use my phone but I wouldn't let her because I did not know her. I posted about this some time ago. Long story short she told me she did not want me to call the police.

A few months later another Board member told me another one of his visitors knocked on her door. This is the same lady that I noticed earlier sitting by his door. I was delivering a morning paper to a lady who lives on his floor and has difficulty walking to get her paper. This lady also told me the man had her purse and was not giving it back to her. She also did not want the police called. Now those are FACTS I WOULD BE GLAD TO TESTIFY TO IN A COURT OF LAW UNDER OATH. I would not testify under oath that I suspected him of drug dealing. But I could testify to the time a couple of people came into the building as I was going downstairs to the laundry room. I was quite certain they were going to visit this man and I just said something to the effect that since you are going to visit _________upstairs I will let you go first. Later this man called and tore into me for "questioning his visitors"

The pizza delivery man who was "allegedly" assaulted was still here when the police were here. An owner who was witness to the "Alleged" assault had called the police. An owner who lives next to where the "alleged" assault happened told me he was afraid to even come out of his unit because of the banging (maybe not his exact words but I am sure you can (or maybe you can't) get the idea. The owner who stayed in his unit has had two or three heart surgeries.

Just because YOU do not know all the details does not mean I am contradicting myself.

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