Can a Mgmt. Company tell you that you cant review the expeditures?

Started by KimD9 • 83 replies • 5087 views

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KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Our homeowners association has a Management Company. At our annual meeting it was brought to our attention that the members of the assocation
can review the receipts/expenses/meeting minutes. We were told in the past NO. So a few neighbors, myself included went and had a hour appointment
to review these. We found MANY MANY discrepancies and reimbursements without receipts. Receipts turned in without the Treasurers knowledge etc.
We know our President is a crook but never could prove it until now. Since we only had one hour, we made a second appointment. The Management
company then informed us that "This will be our final viewing of any receipts". We have years to go through and one hour increments is nowhere near
the time but we have accepted this and just decided to make more appointments for viewing.

My question is: How can the Mgmt. company reject us viewing these expenses. We are a non profit and it is our right.

Thanks in advance!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

the mgmt. co. can and will do whatever the BOD says to do

the mgmt. co. works for the BOD (not the members)

the BOD, however, may NOT refuse a request for records

the BOD is the responsible party NOT the mgmt. co.

send a request to view/copy to the XYZ HOA, Inc.'s 'registered agent' certified mail, return request

find the registered agent at your state's 'secretary of state' web site

take it from there

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/sr_corp.asp

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

{url}http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/sr_corp.asp{url}

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/sr_corp.asp

CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265

Posted:

I would say the management company works for the association and answers to the board of directors. Board should honor any reasonable request to see association records.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CfD on 12/19/2014 1:39 PM
Board should honor any reasonable request to see association records.

Agreed. So the question comes down to, How reasonable was the request?

Reasonableness involves the balancing of your right to inspect against the disruption to the day to day operations of the management company.

You have provided very little information about what happened. For example: How well were the records organized? Did they have to be pulled together for you? Did someone have to go through them first so that you did not see information belonging to other homeowners that might be considered confidential? Did someone from the management company stay with you while you reviewed the records? Did you ask for copies? Did you give them any indication of how long you needed to complete your full investigation? Etc.

I am not asking for answers to these questions - I am only providing them as examples of what might go into the decision of what is considered reasonable.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

IMHO you absolutely have the right to inspect the records and that right is probably spelled out in your CC&R's as well as in Michigan's non-profit corporation act but you should be prepared to pay a reasonable hourly fee to do so. MC's are for profit companies and they must pull an employee to not only pull and refile any records you wish to see but babysit the records while you inspect them to make sure they don't walk off. You should also be prepared to pay for any copying costs.

PS. If you're sure the president is a crook, why do the homeowners reelect him/her and why don't you get the homeowners together and call for a professional audit of the books.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm curious to know, Kim, who, "Brought it to H/Os' attention that they may inspect the financial records" at a meeting? A member of the Board? The HOA attorney?

Next, how do you know that receipts were turned in without the treasurer's knowledge? And, second, why is that a problem? Our PM reviews the receipts and reimburses up to a certain amount, no the treasurer. Reimbursement without receipts should never happen, IMO.

Are H/Os not allowed in MI to have copies of the records (for a fee, of course)?

Re: resonableness, as CfD & NpS remind us in spelled out in CA civil code so that the HOA (via its PM) is not required to provide records that go back a certain number of years--I think it's the current year + the 2 previous years.

The HOA (via its PM) in CA also is not required to compile records, e.g., pull together all receipts for purchases at the local liquor store.

While it's true that PMs work for the Association, not individual H/Os, our contract with ours states clearly that the PM is not "obligated" to follow board directives that break the law or opposed our governing documents. What does your contract say, Kim? If your contract says the same, send a letter as JohnB recommends to both the Board and the Mgmt. company.

As with Glen, why do H/Os keep reelecting this "crook"?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your name rang a bell, Kim, so I looked back and saw some of your recent posts. Your mother-in-law is on the Board, and you and others have many issues with the current president.

Unless you want o go to court, even with new evidence for these records, your only option is to get neighbors together and vote him out. You'll just have to make sure you get more proxies than he does.

Meantime, look at JohnB's citation to see what your rights are.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Kim

My strong recommendation, and this is from painful prior experience, IF you think you can prove the President is a "crook" you need control of the Board and then you have control over the management company.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

There is quite a gap between believing someone is a crook and PROVING criminal actions.

Just what were the problems you found. Receipts which the Treasurer was not aware of seem to be not of a criminal nature.

And I have to wonder why only the President has been labeled a crook what about the other members of the Board?

Without some real evidence of a crime hard to support someone being called a crook.

And why would you sit by and allow a crook to hold the position of Board President?

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Hello,

I dont understand what you are saying the HOA , INC Registered agent??

What is this and what am I to do or send?

Thank you very much

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

We are trying to do that, there are vacancies on the board but he will not fill them.
He only allows those he can control on the board. There is no way to get control of the board.

I do know the MGMT company works for the board and the board is responsible for this, but they cant
tell us we cannot see the receipts, they are public knowledge in a non profit corp.

thanks

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

The Michigan Compliance law says they cant charge us for copies. THe Mgmt CO. said they are NOT MAKING COPIES!!!

Can you believe this? It is in our laws. I even showed them the section.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Consider bringing a laptop, a scanner and an extension cord or two.

This way, you can spend an hour scanning documents and review them later at your own pace.
Explain to the MC that you are doing this because of their refusal to make copies.

My suggestion is a scanner with a sheet feeder. If you don't have one, there are a lot on the market. Some will scan two sides of the page at the same time.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimD9 on 12/19/2014 6:11 PM
The Michigan Compliance law says they cant charge us for copies. THe Mgmt CO. said they are NOT MAKING COPIES!!!

Can you believe this? It is in our laws. I even showed them the section.

Hi Kim

I will assume that you are correct and that the statute does not allow the MC to charge you for copies.

Many here have said to you that the MC doesn't work for free. The MC is entitled to get paid. So if the MC cannot collect from you, they will want the HOA to pay for their time and efforts.

What you are doing makes no sense to me.

In prior posts, you said that the entire annual income for your community is just over $13,000. Your homeowners pay $150 per year and less than $75 goes towards maintaining the common elements. More than $75 goes to the president and the management company.

And now you are creating another reason for the MC to charge more. I don't understand why you would do that.

You already have your answers. If less that $75 out of $150 is going to common maintenance, then you don't need the receipts or lack of receipts to demonstrate that the other $75 is going to the Pres and the MC.

As others have said to you in prior posts, you need a simple message.

You can choose "You should be able to pay $100 per year and get the same level of service" (something you agreed to in a prior post)

Or you can choose "I found the crook and I'm going to spend your money to prove he is a crook"

One of these arguments is a winner and the other is a loser. You decide.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I don't understand why you feel what I am doing does not makes sense. It does make perfect sense to me and many of our members.

* yes you are correct on our annual income and what we pay per home

Why would I create another reason for the MC to charge more... let me answer

The President is wasting our money, thousands and thousands in mileage. He says he HAS to drive through our neighborhood 2x per day
for safety reason... lol.... and he charges us mileage to do so when WE DO IT FOR FREE and volunteer to do it for free, but NO he has to. This waste of money alone adds up

4 miles per day x 2= 8 miles a day
8 miles x 7 days a week =56 miles a week
56 miles a week x 52 = 2912 miles a year

2912 x 55 cents per mile = $1601.00 a year for reimbursement

Really? Do we not drive someone everyday that leads us to drive down our street anyways?

The few dollars that if the MC would charge for copies is well worth it wouldn't you say to prove this man is wasting our money?

This is just one charge, he charges mileage for everything and says it is association business.

I can go on and on with his charges. How about mailing out items to the entire association and padding all the large manilla envelopes
with menus from local restaurants, phone number lists, pamphlets from new businesses so that the envelope weights at least 1.50 worth of
postage just so he can use his uncles old stamp collection that he cannot sell so he can be reimbursed for from our association.

The actual document that could be hand delivered according to our bylaws is only .48 for postage, but he pads the envelopes.

So yes, I would pick number 2 " I found the crook and I'm going to spend a few dollars of your money to save us thousands and thousands."

Sounds fair to me.

The bottom line is, if it takes some money to save money then we have to do what we have to do to get this man out of office. There
is no other way.

Thanks

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Very good idea, at this time we are taking pictures of the documents with our cell phone.
I am sure they will object if they see us doing it.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I am not accusing the Treasurer, the President refused to give the treasurer any receipts and said it was none of her concern and he
is the President and he is the one to decide on what is reimbursed. This man is ruthless and a bully. These ladies are older and don't like
confrontation and go with the flow. The President is the only one getting reimbursement for EXCESSIVE receipts, he also turns in hand written
receipts. NO ONE ELSE on the board has reimbursement for anything BUT HIM. It is a voluntary position and they don't believe in reimbursement for
mileage which is totally uncalled for. This President even turns in his cell phone bill and home phone bills, it is so out of control.

I am NOT nor will I EVER SIT by and allow him to hold the position, that is why I am on the bandwagon to have him removed from office.
That is why I am on here getting suggestions. I will not tolerate it. I have seen the evidence. I have pictures of the checks written out to him.

I have the proof. The board does NOT follow our bylaws and honestly they don't know the bylaws nor reads them. I know them by heart.

A few examples:

*Our fiscal year starts July 1st but bylaws say the first day of each successive year
*Bylaws say we are to elect a board of directors at the annual meeting BUT WE DON'T, we elect a President, VP, Treasurer and Secretary
when the bylaws clearly state that these positions are decided on AFTER the annual meeting by the board of directors
* Bylaws do not say you can vote by proxy, yet the President brings in 30 proxies to get himself elected this year, The Michigan Compliance Law
that we must follow says PROXIES CANT BE USED USED SPECIFIED IN THE BYLAWS OR ARTICLES OR INCORPORATION. I have both and they do not say that, so WHY
is the board and Mgmt company allowing it
Bylaws state this is a voluntary position with no salary or compensation, yet our officers DO NOT PAY ANNUAL DUES..

I could go on and on. I hope you understand my position. We want him out and now.

Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

My mother in laws term just ended a few weeks ago, she would not run again.
Proxies are not allowed, yet he uses them for his votes... this I dont understand and the Mgmt. company supports
his every move.

I don't understand that citation thing

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

At our annual meeting a member got up to speak ( we were allowed one minute from the President and he set a egg timer!) The homeowner make it clear to the board
that they are non profit ( he owns a non profit corp himself) and wanted the membership to know that we can go and inspect receipts. The women from the Mgmt. Company attends our meetings and she said YES we can do this. Funny thing is a month previous to the meeting many of us wanted to inspect receipts and she told us NO we were not allowed to. Funny is we did, we would of found all of the things the President is doing to waste our money and would of been able to bring it to the board at the meeting, but no were were not allowed to.

Secondly, I know the treasurer was not allowed to see receipts, not told about receipts, and never signed a receipt. I know this because she is my mother in law.
IT is a huge problem because as stated in our bylaws a treasurers job is the finances and the approval of receipts.. Reminbursement without receipts is done ALL the time with this President. So yea I have a huge problem with this.

Yes we are allowed to have copies in MI and without a fee according to the MI Compliance Law.
In the Act under document 162-1982-4 Books, Records and Minutes, Section 450,2421, sec. 485 last sentence in the paragraph states:
"A corporation shall convert into written form WITHOUT CHARGE any records not in such form, upon written request of
a person entitled to inspect them".

But the MGMT company refuses to do so..

I do not have a copy of the Mgmt. contact so I dont know what it says about being obligated to the BOD is they are breaking the law.

The reason why they keep electing the crook is this... these are facts..

**The president wins by proxy votes, which ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED but the MGMT company does not say a thing
**The president calls and bullies neighbors for proxies, he will call 5-10 times a week and go to their homes and many just give up and give it to
him to get him off their back
**We have many foreign non speaking english neighbors, he tells them if they do not come to the meeting the HAVE TO SIGN OVER A PROXY to him, they do this
not knowing any better
**We can barely get a quorum at our meetings in the past, noone comes to our annual meetings but the same 20 people for the past 20 years, not many give a damn
so they just sign over the proxy

Those are facts... sad but true. Many of us are trying everything to get this man off the board.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Auditing the books is next on our agenda, also a special meeting to vote this man out after we get the rest of our proof.

thanks

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I agree but the President wont because he has thousands and thousands of dollars a year he is being reimbursed for
and if the members found out they would boot him to the curb! That is the problem. THey are hiding a lot of stuff.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I found us listing under this URL, but I have no idea what you said to do?
Who do I notify, and what do I ask for. I am at a total loss. Could you please
direct me as to what I am doing here?

Thanks

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Word of caution... A witch hunt always feels right to the ones conducting it... This is just a caution before heading down a path you may find will be yours one day... Believe me, when you become a board member or officer every little thing will be under the same scrutiny... Maybe even more by doing it to others...

Not saying that you are not right and ya need to change house... It is just a lesson learned in life. Do not put others in scrutiny if you can not handle it yourself. Having the "smoking gun" in your hand means you witnessed the crime and did nothing or you committed it... Expect that reaction and stop trying to win your case. Do the work required to get the vote to recall board and find enough volunteers to take over.

Former HOA President

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimD9 on 12/19/2014 8:06 PM
I don't understand why you feel what I am doing does not makes sense. It does make perfect sense to me and many of our members.

This is not your first post about the Pres. In prior posts, you said that he is a crook, he gets his way by bullying, he gets the elders in the community on his side, he has the time to work the crowd, he goes around the other board members' backs, he controls the MC, and he has been shrewd enough and tough enough to stay in office for 14 years. In a prior election, he managed to keep one of your family members off the board. You seem to think that you can get rid of him by going after him and maybe waving papers in the air. I think you are underestimating him.

I think you are getting lost in the details and not dealing with the big picture. And I think that the Pres can use that fact against you personally. If your goal is to get rid of him, don't give him ammunition against you.

Some people on this forum call this tough love. I mean you no disrespect. But if I lived in your community, I would not vote for you based on what you have said. You have not shown me how you are going to recover any of the funds taken. You have not shown how more of my money is going to be spent on the common property. You have not shown how my fees are going to go down. Those are the things I would care about.

I am not surprised that you took the "he's a crook" option. It's been your primary message from day 1. I agree with Melissa that a witch hunt can backfire against you.

I wish you success.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

FYI, I was a board me member for many many years, I chose not to stay on the board any longer because of this man. This was about 10 years
ago when I was last a board member. I never knew of his ruthlessness or corruption at that time or I would of never not accepted the nomination.

I can handle scrutiny, I do have the smoking gun because I have actual proof. Dont you people read these posts?

I have already said our next step is to get a audit and to hold a special meeting to get him off the board. please pay attention.

Thanks

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Let me reply.. Paragraph 1...HE NEVER KEPT A FAMILY MEMBER OFF THE BOARD... she was nominated and DECLINED THE NOMINATION for Treasurer because she knows
for a fact he is a crook. Secondly, I have proof of this. I have pictures of documents... really he cant talk his way out of this.

Paragraph 2... He can say whatever he wants against me. I have done nothing wrong but want the truth be told of what he is doing.

Paragraph 3... Like most people in my neighborhood you do not know the facts and if you voted for him you get what you deserve and that is what he is
doing is stealing YOUR MONEY. I am trying to get MORE PROOF and trust me he is not going to pay back any of it unless I get a lawyer and pay $$$$$$.
I just want him shut down so he can stop stealing from the assocation and save us money. Fees are NOT going to go down, why do you say this? Our neighborhood
is struggling and needs to be updated drastically! Each surrounding neighborhood has updated street signs, stop signs, put in street lights. We have none of this.
I am not on this forum for a political campaign with everyone here, I need advice on how to to get rid of this bum and stop the stealing and madness.

Believe what you want BUT YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE BIG PICTURE HERE....

I wonder how you would feel if your PResident was stealing from you left and right? Well maybe you think it is ok... but I SURE DONT and wont allow it!

HE IS A CROOK end of story.

Thanks for your successful wish, sure didnt seem that way.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I just now seen at the bottom of your post... former HOA President...that explains it. Sounds like you justify his actions, you call this a witch
hunt...I call this the President got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and I saw him! Like I said I have been a previous board member for many years
and I never turned in 1 penny. This is voluntary job. If you dont want to volunteer than dont take the job. This volunter job is not a income supplement to add to
your pension.

Trust me I am doing to work, and this forum was just another step for some GOOD ADVICE.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

OK Kim time for some tough love: "In a community association, members get the boards they deserve."
If this person is as bad as you think and he keeps getting re-elected then either you are wrong or your fellow homeowners are morons. Want him out, vote him out either at the next election or recall him. He uses proxies, well the way to fight that is with proxies of your own, if he has proxies dated April 01, 2015 and you have proxies dated April 02, 2015, it invalidates his proxy. He won't appoint replacement Board members, call a Special Meeting for the specific purpose of electing replacement Board members. Think he's stealing? Don't tell us, tell your fellow homeowners, if they still support him - "In a community association, members get the boards they deserve."

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimD9 on 12/19/2014 10:41 PM
I am not on this forum for a political campaign with everyone here, I need advice on how to to get rid of this bum and stop the stealing and madness.

I think you are missing a very important point. This forum is a great place to test your ideas and get FEEDBACK without any risk.

It doesn't matter if you try to deny it. This IS a political campaign. You have tested your message here - and you got feedback that you sound like you are on a witch hunt and that your "crook" message may cost you votes instead of getting you votes. Instead of thinking about this feedback and how you can modify your message to get more votes, you defend yourself and argue that the feedback is wrong.

You say we aren't listening just like the people in your community aren't listening. I find that troubling. Not because you are wrong, but because you have to get people to vote to get rid of him, and you have admitted that people don't care.

Yet you seem to be saying that people will care when you show them the proof. I don't think it's that simple. I have seen too many political fights where the bad guy got to stay in office.

So once again I wish you success.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Kim,
You simply have to call the police and ask for someone in the financial crime area. The officer will come out and hear what you have to say and then will be able to tell you whether or not you have justification to press charges.

It's up to you to follow through and file the charges against him. You may have to do this all by yourself if you can't get anyone else who firmly believes he is a crook.

I too am a past president and I did this myself regarding our MGMT. Company piece of crap. When all was said and done, the concerning finances were not actually breaking a law, but were highly unethical. By telling the HOA that we had called the police, it became a no brainer for them to see that we had to get rid of him.

So put your concerns to the test and call the police. good luck.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So this OP served on her board 10 years ago and just NOW decides the time has come to do something?
So was she part of the problem or part of a solution.

Older folks who allow this behavior by the President if true are also part of the problem.
What if anything does the OP plan to do about that?

The President uses proxies, well then you had better find a way to pull together enough votes to vote him out.
Whatever that takes. You fight fire with fire not whining and making excuses about what language residents speak.

The OP seems to think once her version of the truth comes out all the owners will awaken from their communal comas and chat her name while storming the castle. Good luck with motivating a group that has allowed this behavior for more than a decade including the OP.

Glen is right, communities get the Boards they deserve and allow.

My suggestion gather some evidence, tone down the dramatic attacks and focus on the goal. And if it were me rather than focusing on documents and proof I would work day and night for VOTES! You see in the real world proof, truth and right are meaningless unless you have the votes to win.

And one final comment. Coming to this site arguing points with those seeking to advise you on a path that might lead you to where it is you want to go is both non-productive and insulting. IF you knew it all you would not have allowed this to take place over the last ten years.

Time for some hard work and getting dirty. And tap your brakes with the accusations and personal evaluations. You are not in possession of facts that allow for such conclusions.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Thank you for your advice, yet I feel I am repeating myself OVER AND OVER.....

When I was on the BOD 10 years ago I NEVER KNEW OF THESE PROBLEMS, I am only because aware of them this past year because my
Mother in Law was the treasurer and this President would not allow her to see expenses/bills, which is her job. So I started to
investigate and found all of this out.

I am NOT CAMPAIGNING to be President,I just want him out. I feel that I have to keep defending myself on this forum.

I am in possession of facts, again as I have said I have PICTURES of all the checks the PMC wrote this man and pictures of
hand written receipts.

I appreciate help but I get so tired of repeating myself about this situation and then the responses dont match what I am asking.

Thanks for your help.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Thank you, YES GREAT ADVICE!! I believe I finally has someone who understands the circumstance I am in.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I just wanted advice on what is the best way to get him removed. I am not running for office. I do believe once the truth is out that justice will prevail.
I wanted advice on how to fight the MGMt company since they are breaking our bylaws and also no not allowing us to view expenses, which they cant do.
Just because they say NO, does not mean then are right and I was hoping on the forum I would get that kind of advice. Some offered it. Others do not.
Thank you

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimD9 on 12/20/2014 7:14 AM
Thank you for your advice, yet I feel I am repeating myself OVER AND OVER.....

When I was on the BOD 10 years ago I NEVER KNEW OF THESE PROBLEMS, I am only because aware of them this past year because my
Mother in Law was the treasurer and this President would not allow her to see expenses/bills, which is her job. So I started to
investigate and found all of this out.

I am NOT CAMPAIGNING to be President,I just want him out. I feel that I have to keep defending myself on this forum.

I am in possession of facts, again as I have said I have PICTURES of all the checks the PMC wrote this man and pictures of
hand written receipts.

I appreciate help but I get so tired of repeating myself about this situation and then the responses dont match what I am asking.

Thanks for your help.

Well Kim once you have gotten what it is you want just who is going to serve as President?

Who will fill that void?

Or do you even care?

That sounds like a real problem for me because removing someone is just part of the solution finding someone willing to do the job right now there's the difficult part,

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I agree, they do get what they deserve, BUT I don't deserve it and neither do MANY of the homeowners who dislike this man. I am working extremely hard
on this case to get him removed. This forum is just one small area that I am putting time and effort into. I have practically memorized the bylaws, and the 53 pages
of The Michigan Compliance Law, and Articles of Incorporation. I have had one meeting at the MGmt company to view records and another one on Monday, now they said
it will be the last time me and other homeowners can view anything.

Me and other homeowners are putting together all this evidence to show the membership in hopes that they will show up at a meeting to remove him.

Maybe your laws are different then our laws, but WE CANT USE PROXIES according to our bylaws, BUT THIS MAN USES at our annual meeting to get his votes.
Again, WE CANT USE PROXIES, but no one stops him and no one will fight him because no one will put in the time and effort. No one even knows you cant use proxies
because they dont read the bylaws, but I do and I am shut down every time I bring this up. I and many other write letter to the mgmt. company about this ( this is how
we have to complain is to write to the mgmt company and then they forward the letter to the board, this is procedure). Well the Mgmt company forwards the letters
to the President only and HE DOES NOT SHOW THE REST OF THE BOARD. I know this because I have written 2 letter the last term and my mother in law and the VP never
received them, nor did the President bring up the letters at the board meeting. This man 80 years old and evil.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

We have an entire board that wants to take over, SERIOUSLY DO I EVEN CARE? Do you think I am working like a dog for nothing?
Of course I care, why would you even say that. If I did not care I wouldn't even be here asking for solutions.

Thank you

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Ps you are either confused or have not read the entire post. The OP is ME! I served on the board 10 years ago and for about 5-6 year.
I only found about this corruption this past year.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Please help with this, I have no idea what this url is for. I typed in our assocation and it came up. The form only has all the board members name on it.
Now what do I do with it? What do I find out at Secretary of State? I have no idea how to do this. Can you please provide help.

Thank you

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Kim

The ONLY thing that really matters right now are votes.
So my first step would be no one signs or provides the man their proxy.

Have you begun contacting owners? Have you found out how many owners might support your efforts? How many owners are there? How many now support you? NOW today.

Motivating people is very difficult no mater what proof or evidence you think you have. It takes time, effort and building relationships with as many owners as posssible.

Have you begun that process.

And to be blunt, I have problems with your explanations. WHO will head this Board going forward? How does that leave the property if and when the President is removed?

And I am just curious as you mentioned the Board officers don't pay common charges which I beleive to be wrong or perhaps illegal how about your relative who served on the Board did she pay her common charges or did she take advantage of her service too?

And forgive me but one 80 year old man versus all the owners who you claim he is screwing over doesn't sound like much of a battle to me. Really? Perhaps these folks shouild decide it is time to stand up for themselves. Or let the 80 year old screw them some more.
Hard to accept this is the foe we have lost to.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimD9 on 12/20/2014 7:28 AM
Me and other homeowners are putting together all this evidence to show the membership in hopes that they will show up at a meeting to remove him.

Don't forget to let us know how many show up at the meeting.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Showing someone else's lack of morals standards never paints you or yours in a better light. My recommendation is to cool it with the "witch hunt and burning stakes". Proof means NOTHING. What does speak louder than words? Your OWN actions... Which people are just NOT going to trust very well if you do them with a pitchfork in your hand...

I am speaking from first hand experience. The former president was indeed a con-artist using his position and "charm" to run the HOA. I caught on real quick and was able to take him out of office. It sure was NOT pointing out his many many crooked deeds. Instead was showing off my potential skill and willingness to serve the community better. That is what ended up getting me elected and in a position to weed him out. It was NOT by bad mouthing him but holding my words. His actions would expose not mine. I find given enough rope everyone hangs themselves.

See how much support your getting from this board here? Seems like the same from your community doesn't it? That may be speaking volumes if you just would listen. If you want the right things done, the you do them yourself. That means you doing the right thing and not doing the bad things of blaming/exposing others. You don't paint yourself in a good light that way... or atleast one someone wants not to hide in bush somewhere....

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Kim

So far you have not proven to me the Pres. is a crook. You have shown:

1. He knows how to control the proxy/vote to get re-elected.

2. He has plenty of allies that will vote for him.

3. He spends to much mileage paid time doing things that may not have to be done thus his mileage reimbursement is extremely high but that is not cheating. It is at worst, using the existing system.

4. He seems to be able to control the Management Company.

If I have missed anything, please let me know.

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Here is the thing, I do not have to prove it to you, this is way to time consuming to PROVE to each and every person on this forum.
I have to prove it to the memebers.

1. as I said PROXY VOTES ARE NOT ALLOWED, yet the MGMT company who runs the elections counts them
2. He has alias because noone knows any diffrent, just like I did not for many years until I went through the
receipts with other members of our association.
3. After 14 years on board he has turned in approximately $1500 per year for gas... seriously do the math

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

First of all, THE WITCH HUNT AND BURNING AT THE STAKE, is ON HERE, not to the members AS OF YET.

I DO NOT WANT TO BE A BOARD MEMBER secondly, I keep repeating myself on this, but I have a board in place to take over.

I agree he was given all the rope and NOW HE IS HANDING HIMSELF, after all these years.

He does not have a full board, 2 are his friends and one is on OUR side, there is NO VP and really never is
he runs both positions which IS NOT ALLOWED ACCORDING TO OUR BYLAWS. We have people who volunteer to be VP
but he will only allow the PEOPLE HE WANTS.

I am listening this is why I am putting in all this hard work, this is just NOT ME here wanting him out. I just said since
I have the time I would do the footwork and research..

Thanks for your input

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I will , that is probably a long way down the road, we are just starting this battle. I just need suggestions
on what more we can do as an association. A link was posted here and a suggestion but I have no idea how to go
about it. That is what I was asking for.

thank you

KimD9 (Michigan)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Kim

The ONLY thing that really matters right now are votes. I AGREE
So my first step would be no one signs or provides the man their proxy. I AGREE

Have you begun contacting owners?( Will shortly) Have you found out how many owners might support your efforts? ( after they find out the proof I believe he will be out)How many owners are there? 94 How many now support you? NOW today.

Motivating people is very difficult no mater what proof or evidence you think you have. It takes time, effort and building relationships with as many owners as posssible. ( I agree, I know almost all my neighbors, been here for 18 years, My husband also has a lawn business and cuts many many of the 94 homes here. We have an excellent reputation here)

Have you begun that process. ( We will after the Monday meeting to review more receipts )

And to be blunt, I have problems with your explanations. WHO will head this Board going forward? How does that leave the property if and when the President is removed? ( WE have a entire board who will lead the board )

And I am just curious as you mentioned the Board officers don't pay common charges which I beleive to be wrong or perhaps illegal how about your relative who served on the Board did she pay her common charges or did she take advantage of her service too? ( SHE DID NOT PAY EITHER)

And forgive me but one 80 year old man versus all the owners who you claim he is screwing over doesn't sound like much of a battle to me. Really? Perhaps these folks shouild decide it is time to stand up for themselves. Or let the 80 year old screw them some more.
Hard to accept this is the foe we have lost to. ( I AGREE I WISH YOU KNEW THIS MAN AND HOW HE IS A MANIPULATOR, VERY SAD. TIME FOR A CHANGE AND I AM READY FOR THIS BATTLE ALONG WITH MY FELLOW NEIGHBORS)

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