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RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
Everyone in our community has all agreed to communicate through email. This includes notices of meetings, proxy votes, and anything else that may require the board to communicate with a resident. Since we can't get anyone to join a meeting (our last annual consisted of me, one other board member, and one resident, so that says something), we do our elections via email since it's the only way to get a quorum.

I'd like to do everything properly, though, so knowing when to use a particular communication format would be of help.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You need to properly vote on this and modify your documentation. If not, then you may have future issues. The process of changing the documents are in the documents. When modifying the CC&R's you do need to file them with the county. They do require proof of votes collected with the proper signatures. It is also best to run this by a lawyer as well.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonW7 on 12/14/2014 12:33 PM
Everyone in our community has all agreed to communicate through email. This includes notices of meetings, proxy votes, and anything else that may require the board to communicate with a resident. Since we can't get anyone to join a meeting (our last annual consisted of me, one other board member, and one resident, so that says something), we do our elections via email since it's the only way to get a quorum.

I'd like to do everything properly, though, so knowing when to use a particular communication format would be of help.

Ron,

The wise thing to do would be to get a signed statement from each member where they waive their right to mailed notices and agree to accept email notices. The irony is that you will need to somehow send and receive the signed notices, which you will need to keep in your association's files.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
We get personal waivers from homeowners - waiving their right to receive mailings that are required under our organizing docs and agreeing to receive everything via email.

Strictly optional. Homeowners can change their status at any time.

No modification to CC&Rs required.

Only have to make changes when a house changes hands.

Our mailing costs are down 85% from 3 years ago.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
I see our messages crossed Larry. Obviously I agree with you.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You may need to check your state statutes. In CA, for instance, there are a lot of rules about when an HOA board must send US mail and how it must be handled. We may not, for instance, have H/O vote for directors by email. But it might be OK in OH.

In CA we only need post the notices and agendas of board or members meetings in a public place, e.g., at the main entrance, in the mailrooms, etc. Maybe it's the same in OH.

Wanting letter or letters called allege violators must be sent US mail in CA. But maybe not in OH.

Even though, per another post of yours, no one cares, some owner MIGHT care someday and you don't want to be left holding the bag because laws weren't followed. Start with your own documents, which may say something and then proceed to your state's statutes.

If Glen checks in, he might know the requirements.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Ron as I recall you are in a COA so 5311 would apply to you, absent something in your CC&R's specifying the use of mail in specific situations 5311.081 would apply where it talks about Powers and Duties of the Board, specifically section C: (emphasis added)

(C)

(1) Prior to imposing a charge for damages or an enforcement assessment pursuant to division (B)(12) of this section, the board of directors shall give the unit owner a written notice that includes all of the following:

(a) A description of the property damage or violation;

(b) The amount of the proposed charge or assessment;

(c) A statement that the owner has a right to a hearing before the board of directors to contest the proposed charge or assessment;

(d) A statement setting forth the procedures to request a hearing pursuant to division (C)(2) of this section;

(e) A reasonable date by which the unit owner must cure the violation to avoid the proposed charge or assessment.

(2)

(a) To request a hearing, the owner shall deliver a written notice to the board of directors not later than the tenth day after receiving the notice required by division (C)(1) of this section. If the owner fails to make a timely request for a hearing, the right to that hearing is waived, and the board may immediately impose a charge for damages or an enforcement assessment pursuant to division (C) of this section.

(b) If a unit owner requests a hearing, at least seven days prior to the hearing the board of directors shall provide the unit owner with a written notice that includes the date, time, and location of the hearing.

(3) The board of directors shall not levy a charge or assessment before holding any hearing requested pursuant to division (C)(2) of this section.

(4) The unit owners, through the board of directors, may allow a reasonable time to cure a violation described in division (B)(12) of this section before imposing a charge or assessment.

(5) Within thirty days following a hearing at which the board of directors imposes a charge or assessment, the unit owners association shall deliver a written notice of the charge or assessment to the unit owner.

(6) Any written notice that division (C) of this section requires shall be delivered to the unit owner or any occupant of the unit by personal delivery, by certified mail, return receipt requested, or by regular mail.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
We initiated notifications etc via email, however our docs also state that all communications have to be mailed, so we are stuck doing both as we will can't seem to get enough people to change the docs. So we still have to do both.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Crystal

Read this.

Quote:
Posted By NpS on 12/14/2014 12:54 PM
We get personal waivers from homeowners - waiving their right to receive mailings that are required under our organizing docs and agreeing to receive everything via email.

Strictly optional. Homeowners can change their status at any time.

No modification to CC&Rs required.

Only have to make changes when a house changes hands.

Our mailing costs are down 85% from 3 years ago.



Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our CA statutes permit us to follow what NpS does in PA. Perhaps, Crystal, your state laws trump your own bylaws as do ours.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
NPs, thank you but I do actually read others who post on here but I don't believe that those posts are the be all, end all answers?

Kerry, our state law does not address this issue, it allows for electronic communication however we were advised that regardless if someone were to give us written permission to go electronic, they can still cause a riot, it may not hold up in a court of law because our CCR's say to mail usps. We will never get the % to change it.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Thought you might have missed it Crystal. Never would want anyone to think my posts were end all be all. Just trying to add to the conversation.

As to your comment to Kerry, the riot-maker is not likely to win in court for 3 reasons:

1. The waiver decision is reversible at any time. Court unlikely to look favorably at a person who doesn't use the remedies available and goes to court instead.

2. CC&Rs are a contract. A party may waive some but not necessarily all contract rights. You might want to check with a lawyer - My guess is that receipt by email instead of USPS is one of those waivable rights. Our PA lawyer said so. If waived, Court is unlikely to entertain a challenge from the person who knowingly waived.

3. It's a cost saving measure. If it was the other way around, Court might consider the burden of the excess cost. But here there is a reduction of cost. Courts are unlikely to force everyone else's costs to go up because of a riot-maker.

Before making the change, we consulted with our lawyer and verified that we would still be ok under PA statute (which is based on USPS notice).

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 12/19/2014 7:11 AM
Thought you might have missed it Crystal. Never would want anyone to think my posts were end all be all. Just trying to add to the conversation.

As to your comment to Kerry, the riot-maker is not likely to win in court for 3 reasons:

1. The waiver decision is reversible at any time. Court unlikely to look favorably at a person who doesn't use the remedies available and goes to court instead.

2. CC&Rs are a contract. A party may waive some but not necessarily all contract rights. You might want to check with a lawyer - My guess is that receipt by email instead of USPS is one of those waivable rights. Our PA lawyer said so. If waived, Court is unlikely to entertain a challenge from the person who knowingly waived.

3. It's a cost saving measure. If it was the other way around, Court might consider the burden of the excess cost. But here there is a reduction of cost. Courts are unlikely to force everyone else's costs to go up because of a riot-maker.

Before making the change, we consulted with our lawyer and verified that we would still be ok under PA statute (which is based on USPS notice).

Forgot one:

4. BJR. The standard that a court will apply when considering the acts of the Board is the Business Judgment Rule. Maine's Business Corporation Act at the end of Sec 1701.1 says:

"Nothing contained in this Act is intended to alter or codify the business judgment rule as developed by the courts of this State or to limit its further development."

Thus ME statute clearly states that the BJR stands separate and apart from the statute. The Act is not intended to set limits on the BJR. Best judgment under the circumstances can supersede strict adherence to statue. If ME is like most states, under the BJR, the facts that you consulted a lawyer and that you reduced costs will be enough for a Court to reject any challenge.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonW7 on 12/14/2014 12:33 PM
Everyone in our community has all agreed to communicate through email. This includes notices of meetings, proxy votes, and anything else that may require the board to communicate with a resident. Since we can't get anyone to join a meeting (our last annual consisted of me, one other board member, and one resident, so that says something), we do our elections via email since it's the only way to get a quorum.

I'd like to do everything properly, though, so knowing when to use a particular communication format would be of help.

Like I said before there is a HOA community in hit water from sending things via E-mails, emails in some states are not legal unless their is a discloser on their endings or embedded in the email somewhere.

E-mails are impersonal anyone can open them if they have access to your computer and email account.

Certified letters and return receipt is another issue cost more but your legally protected from future instances say like slap a notice on someone door or place some HOA notices in Mail Box without postage on it even. Now since you don't want to commit a federal offense placing a item in a Mail Box which is a federal crime since only a postal worker can do that you yourself place and take mail out of your own mailbox. mail Box's are owned by the Post Office Federally protected, you don't own it even though you bought it.

So here's more a of an explanation probably was drinking last time I recall barely mentioning, you place a notice on my door or place it in the mail box and your not a postal worker, it's Trash Period garbage. Period I was not given notice and expect an issue whenever after the fact it goes to vote. Your not perjuring yourself when you claim you'll throw away improperly served important documents that effects your right to a fair vote and claim ignorance since you were not properly served.

Remember HOA are transparent and everything is done legally and properly, emails and notices slapped on doors or crimes via mail box's without postage and properly screened and processed or delivered by a postal worker or the law is not a fair way to conduct business. Notices blows off doors, angry neighbors takes them, or their actually violations of their own by-laws even.

Notices on my door or improperly delivered junk mail notices in my mail box are junk and tossed, imam sure others would agree here. HOA can claim they send out notices, but were talking about serious issues that needs to be transparent and without some kind of certificated process to announce voting's, HOA are just creating needless issues after the voting's done. E-mail notices doesn't work like that HOA done the road, certain LOT owners were left out of the voting e-mail notice coming up because they were deemed trouble makers, that's why their (BOD) being sued individually in the court by those were were singled out and not notified legally.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 12/19/2014 7:11 AM
Thought you might have missed it Crystal. Never would want anyone to think my posts were end all be all. Just trying to add to the conversation.

As to your comment to Kerry, the riot-maker is not likely to win in court for 3 reasons:

1. The waiver decision is reversible at any time. Court unlikely to look favorably at a person who doesn't use the remedies available and goes to court instead.

2. CC&Rs are a contract. A party may waive some but not necessarily all contract rights. You might want to check with a lawyer - My guess is that receipt by email instead of USPS is one of those waivable rights. Our PA lawyer said so. If waived, Court is unlikely to entertain a challenge from the person who knowingly waived.

3. It's a cost saving measure. If it was the other way around, Court might consider the burden of the excess cost. But here there is a reduction of cost. Courts are unlikely to force everyone else's costs to go up because of a riot-maker.

Before making the change, we consulted with our lawyer and verified that we would still be ok under PA statute (which is based on USPS notice).

Thanks NPS, we have been made to understand from the HOA attorney, that because it is a contract and must follow contractual law, we would have to amend the CCR, we cannot just attach a waiver to it.

I'm not a lawyer but isn't this HOA contract between every member and there for would require every member to agree to an amendment? I think that is one of the biggest issues discussed on this forum.

A court may or may not look favorable on a case such as this, however, our cost basis analysis said follow the CCR's to avoid unwanted litigation or confusion with current or future members.

You don't need a valid reason to take someone to court, people get sued for BS all the time. So I wouldn't put weight into a court not hearing a case such as this, so it becomes a PITA not worth the trouble.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 12/20/2014 5:52 AM
Thanks NPS, we have been made to understand from the HOA attorney, that because it is a contract and must follow contractual law, we would have to amend the CCR, we cannot just attach a waiver to it.

I'm not a lawyer but isn't this HOA contract between every member and there for would require every member to agree to an amendment? I think that is one of the biggest issues discussed on this forum.

A court may or may not look favorable on a case such as this, however, our cost basis analysis said follow the CCR's to avoid unwanted litigation or confusion with current or future members.

You don't need a valid reason to take someone to court, people get sued for BS all the time. So I wouldn't put weight into a court not hearing a case such as this, so it becomes a PITA not worth the trouble.

Fully understand where you are coming from Crystal.

Found an article by a ME lawyer that you might want to read:

http://www.pierceatwood.com/webfiles/ReichlArticle.pdf

BTW, I was born in Bangor many moons ago.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 12/20/2014 6:11 AM
Posted By CyrstalB on 12/20/2014 5:52 AM
Thanks NPS, we have been made to understand from the HOA attorney, that because it is a contract and must follow contractual law, we would have to amend the CCR, we cannot just attach a waiver to it.

I'm not a lawyer but isn't this HOA contract between every member and there for would require every member to agree to an amendment? I think that is one of the biggest issues discussed on this forum.

A court may or may not look favorable on a case such as this, however, our cost basis analysis said follow the CCR's to avoid unwanted litigation or confusion with current or future members.

You don't need a valid reason to take someone to court, people get sued for BS all the time. So I wouldn't put weight into a court not hearing a case such as this, so it becomes a PITA not worth the trouble.


Fully understand where you are coming from Crystal.

Found an article by a ME lawyer that you might want to read:

http://www.pierceatwood.com/webfiles/ReichlArticle.pdf

BTW, I was born in Bangor many moons ago.

thanks NPS,
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CyrstalB on 12/22/2014 5:26 AM
Posted By NpS on 12/20/2014 6:11 AM
Posted By CyrstalB on 12/20/2014 5:52 AM
Thanks NPS, we have been made to understand from the HOA attorney, that because it is a contract and must follow contractual law, we would have to amend the CCR, we cannot just attach a waiver to it.

I'm not a lawyer but isn't this HOA contract between every member and there for would require every member to agree to an amendment? I think that is one of the biggest issues discussed on this forum.

A court may or may not look favorable on a case such as this, however, our cost basis analysis said follow the CCR's to avoid unwanted litigation or confusion with current or future members.

You don't need a valid reason to take someone to court, people get sued for BS all the time. So I wouldn't put weight into a court not hearing a case such as this, so it becomes a PITA not worth the trouble.


Fully understand where you are coming from Crystal.

Found an article by a ME lawyer that you might want to read:

http://www.pierceatwood.com/webfiles/ReichlArticle.pdf

BTW, I was born in Bangor many moons ago.


thanks NPS,

ps, I am a temporary citizen, lovely state though!

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