HOA dues unpaid

Started by RG1 • 16 replies • 2354 views

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RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11

Posted:

I have a small outstanding balance (under $400) on HOA dues. My HOA company, which are the investors, will not adhere to outside repairs. I.e Deck rails need painted. Can they ignore homeowner requests, which is what they are doing? I presume its due to my unpaid balance, but not sure. Note: I'm paying off balance without statements or demands from anyone. I proactively pay to catch up on known balance.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yes, they can withhold services to a member NOT in good standing. Why should all the members foot your bill? Are you sure the HOA is responsible for the repairs? Are they able to afford to do them? Seems if you are NOT contributing then how else they going to have the money to address the issue? A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members FOR it's members.

I'd highly recommend paying your back dues. They can lien you and then later foreclose on that loan. Your in danger of that happening.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I disagree (a little) with Melissa. Generally, repairs and maintenance are separate issues from paying assessments - there is case law in several states that state a HOA's failure to maintain the property doesn't justify the homeowner's refusal to pay assessments for whatever reason. That's why I think the two should be treated separately.

That said, I agree with everything else - the work can't be done unless and until all homeowners pay their fair share of expenses. You said you presume the work's not being done because you're behind, but you don't know for certain, so I suggest you talk to the board or property manager. Have you made a request to get work done? If so, when? Did you check your documents to see who's responsible for the deck rails - if it's you, getting them painted is your responsibility.

I should also note that some repairs are more time critical and sensitive than others - perhaps the Association is concentrating on things like roof repair before winter really kicks in (of course, if you're on the east coast, it already has!) Deck rail painting isn't critical, although necessary. In my association, we often wait until we get several requests and then send out our maintenance people to deal with a number of things at once, saving money on multiple trip charges.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Read your Governing Documents they should be very clear about what services can be withheld if you are considered a member not in good standing. Every HOA has a unique set of documents, check there before you get upset with them. Get the facts on who is in the right, first.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Sorry Shelia, our posts got crossed, I agree with the advice you gave.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

> Can they ignore homeowner requests, which is what they are doing?

Just to be clear- they do not need to do something just because you ask. They need to do required maintenance in a timely manner. I can imagine a wide range of possible opinion about when painting "needs" to be done.

And by the way- ALWAYS pay HOA dues. Non-payment can lead to late fees, liens, foreclosure, etc.

RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Thank you all for replies.

Without you all knowing my HOA dues' monthly cost, its assumed I'm behind by months...not the case. I've been a owner for nearly two decades, and have not ever called on the board to address unit issues. Really one of those low key owners...until I feel pushed to the point of abuse. Yes, I have read my bylaws and hired attorneys to read them over the years to ensure I'm clear on my responsibilities. I agree with Sheila that the two are seemingly separate issues, but wanted to poll others on their HOA understanding.

I like the thought that HOA don't need to respond with action just because you ask. Never really thought of it that way! I agree I will once again review bylaws and addendum to position myself for the grass root movement to come.

The response that I want someone else to foot my bill for my repairs isn't the case. If I took on that attitude, I would think I deserved it after 20 years of paying out and no direct return. Yet, this is an association, and until board members perceive it that way... there will be little team effort amongst members and more division . Its not just one sided agreements.

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm thankful that my board no matter how divided we are, at current, we have some compassion. I pay without reminders, and they understand without threats.

RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11

Posted:

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RG1 on 12/10/2014 5:07 PM
T

this is an association, and until board members perceive it that way... there will be little team effort amongst members and more division . Its not just one sided agreements.

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm thankful that my board no matter how divided we are, at current, we have some compassion. I pay without reminders, and they understand without threats.

Very well said.

Team effort and compassion are two things some board members do not think is on their list of duties. Some think their is no room for compassion and empathy in HOA business, I am not one of them.

Good luck working out your situation.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The issue with your HOA can simply be not able to afford to do the repairs. If you owe money it is a good bet others do too. It would be great if a board can respond equally and fairly. The reality is that is not possible. The HOA can only spend money that it collects and then all of it has to go to its expenses plus reserve.

If I had to make a decision to paint the railing of an owner who is behind on dues or one that pays, I would do the one that is in good standing. It does not mean that is being selective or not following the rules. It means that if I have $10 to spend it will be for the co workers kids girl scout cookies than the person with a will work for food sign... It does not mean both does not need the money equally.

Simply put your request in writing and submit it to the board if can not attend a meeting. They then will decide if the money owed is a problem or it is doable to schedule.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Unless your governing docs spell out that the HOA can withhold services that they are required to perform as stated in those docs, I don't see how they can.

We have deeded parking spaces in our underground garage that the HOA maintains. Our custodians do not have a list of the spaces to skip on their cleaning schedule if that owners is delinquent. Our HOA also is responsible for our slat wooden storage locker doors. The HOA would repair same if broken even if the Owner is delinquent. Their high rise windows still would be washed.

What we can do by following the correct procedures is withhold certain amenities like our gym, swimming pool and the biggest of all, visitor parking.

But as others have pointed out, there may be many reasons why they aren't painting your deck rails at this time. Why not ask??

RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11

Posted:

KerryL1, I have asked, more than once. One would deem an unprofessional organization when they refuse to reply. (Sent one request, and two follow-ups.)

Melissa, your example maybe true and its not right, but is done everyday just because one can. This is why I plan to rally my state to address legislation on behalf of HOA homeowners. I pay for 20 years and as long as I do...I'm good. Yet, when I fall behind, you learn....we're a business and don't care about your situation. Sounds like insurance. Thankfully, I'm just one unit there. I find comfort in knowing that empires have been known to fall (Roman, WorldCom, Lehman Bros...all for desiring stuff, and not caring about the people.)

All input have given me more thoughts to ponder. Gracias.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am dealing in the reality of the situation. The reality is that when someone sees someone owes money and then request services, your not likely to go respond immediately. It does not mean they do not have the responsibility to respond and do something. You just moved your issue down the ranks.

Why look outside your HOA? All you need is INSIDE your HOA. What are you protecting? If you read and understand your documents most disagreements resolutions are provided. A HOA does NOT protect you "home values". It just makes sure your homes are more ATTRACTIVE to owners. Having the HOA in good condition and things in order attracts more potential buyers. Home values are based on REAL numbers not want and desires.

Remember these legislators your wanting to defend are most likely living in HOA's themselves. They know the way they work. So don't expect them to jump all over themselves to support your reforms. They most likely already know it's much better to keep the government OUT of the HOA than in.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RG1 on 12/10/2014 5:07 PM
Thank you all for replies.

Without you all knowing my HOA dues' monthly cost, its assumed I'm behind by months...not the case. I've been a owner for nearly two decades, and have not ever called on the board to address unit issues. Really one of those low key owners...until I feel pushed to the point of abuse. Yes, I have read my bylaws and hired attorneys to read them over the years to ensure I'm clear on my responsibilities. I agree with Sheila that the two are seemingly separate issues, but wanted to poll others on their HOA understanding.

I like the thought that HOA don't need to respond with action just because you ask. Never really thought of it that way! I agree I will once again review bylaws and addendum to position myself for the grass root movement to come.

The response that I want someone else to foot my bill for my repairs isn't the case. If I took on that attitude, I would think I deserved it after 20 years of paying out and no direct return. Yet, this is an association, and until board members perceive it that way... there will be little team effort amongst members and more division . Its not just one sided agreements.

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm thankful that my board no matter how divided we are, at current, we have some compassion. I pay without reminders, and they understand without threats.

Why do I get the feeling something else is going here besides no response to your letters (which I agree is unprofessional) and you not paying assessments? You say you've checked the bylaws, but you still haven't said if the Association or the homeowner is responsible for upkeep.

By the way, the Bylaws might not be the right place to look - usually they dictate how the association is to be run (e.g. number of board members, length of term, etc.), whereas your Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CCRs) dictate how the common areas are to be used. The CCRs is usually where you'll see who's responsible for what, among other things, so take another look.

Now, since you haven't received a response to your letters, why haven't you gone to a meeting or to one of the board members personally and asked about your request (it's harder to blow someone off when he/she's in front of you). Have you been receiving updates regarding the Association's finances (if not, you should be). If so, is income keeping up with expenses? Do you have a problem with delinquencies? All of that could be factors in why the work hasn't been done.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By FredS7 on 12/10/2014 10:04 AM
> Can they ignore homeowner requests, which is what they are doing?

Just to be clear- they do not need to do something just because you ask. They need to do required maintenance in a timely manner. I can imagine a wide range of possible opinion about when painting "needs" to be done.

While they might be able to ignore some requests, they should not be able to ignore a a request for a written statement of the HOA's policy on:
(1) which services they provide even if a HO has a balance more than 90 days old;
(2) which services they withhold from HOs with a balance more than 90 days; and
(3) under what circumstances would they make an exception to (2) if a HO is paying the old balance down to clear it within 12 months.

(You can modify these 3 categories as you see fit for your particular circumstance.)

If they don't have such a policy in place now, they would be foolish not to prepare one now. There could easily be repercussions if they ignore you, but I see no reason for making such a threat. Assume that they will be responsive.

If you have a personal relationship with a board member, a preliminary one-on-one conversation might make sense. But if there is already bad-will, you should send your request first. If you don't get a response in ___ days, you might want to approach a board member to see where things are.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Much more going on than can be explained... I'm one homeowner up against investors owning many units. They dont have but one open meeting a year. That meeting, you are not allowed to speak, unless you presubmitted discussion ahead of time. Its crazy. There is only five attendees besides the board. I tried to attend an unnotified meeting one year and they refused me...bcz it was for Board Members only. Of course, as a mere homeowner up against investors they prefer I just do as I have been ...pay dues and let investors turn our community into a hood rat community. Business' pocket profits homeowners remain because they love their area and home.

Beware HOAs can out last generations. Today, you're good! Let the wrong one move in and become president with hidden agendas and the silent majority takes over and everything changes on a dime for a very long time.

New developments are advertising 'no HOA' for a reason!

I'll follow any future comments on this thread with no response. As always thankful you took time to help direct me in this situation.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

RG, instead of looking for a "magic" fix from the legislature, look to your fellow homeowners. Gather some support and recall and replace the Board with ones willing to follow the CC&R's. Want more transparency amend the Covenants to require open Board meetings. Before demanding new laws, I would suggest you read the NC Non-Profit Statutes, assuming your COA is a NP-Corp, what you need might already be in the statutes: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_55A.html

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

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