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RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Condo complex is 90% used as rental apartments. The tenants are predominantly section 8 ( at risk residents). The challenges are 8-10 homeowners still live in their mortgage paid and HOA dues paying units. Management board (same as investors), cannot maintain property well because multiple independent investors own 90% of units. No central management office. Each owner find tenants, repair and service their rental properties. My question, how can HOA hold individual homeowners to high level CCR and bylaw compliance, and not enforce same on other condo owners within same condominium? If they enforce on one, and not others, do I need to comply? Can I ignore violations since external complex picture show years of non compliance by HOA and board?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is a novel idea to protect everyone involved. What needs to happen is the HOA needs to make it mandatory that all leases contain the ADDITIONAL information that Tenants follow the HOA rules. Simple as that. It is NOT in the "boiler plate off the shelf agreement" that most landlords buy/create. It has to be ADDED into the documents. Even though ultimately the OWNER is responsible for their tenants and paying dues, this statement gives them the power to evict bad tenants.

I used to rent my HOA house out. My renter moved in a baby Emu into the backyard... It took me months to evict him. That is because there is a thing called "Tenant's rights". Which can allow a renter to not pay dues upwards to a YEAR and NOT be evicted. The owner can not evict a tenant randomly. They have to violate the lease agreement terms. Most rental agreements do NOT have the caveat of obeying the HOA rules in them. Which means an owner can NOT evict their tenant for violating a HOA rule. The HOA can NOT evict the tenant either. The HOA does NOT own the property. The HOA can fine or make the owner pay for damages the tenant does. The HOA can't charge the tenant.

You have to hold the owner feet to the ground. You also have to deal with the realities of the laws. It would be great to evict at desire. However, the process at a minimum in my state is 10 business days of intent to evict and then another 10 day notice to evict. If do not leave then, another 2 weeks with a sheriff department coming in and moving stuff out. Atleast a 30 - 45 day period of time.

Encourage owners to include obeying HOA rules in their leases. That way they can evict tenant much easier and with a cause. The HOA then can notify the owner to correct and give the owner the power to do something.

Former HOA President
RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Good idea. Although I place all major HOA rules in lease. I probably wasn't as clear in initial communication. HOA board is not enforcing the condo's bylaws for tenants. They seem to pick and choose which owners they want to demand bylaw enforcement. Does this selective choosing water down violated bylaws by one homeowner in the court? My thinking, if the boas are permitted to be parked than why should an homeowner comply with all leases be turned into the HOA office?
RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Try again,..... if violation of boats parked on the complex, than why should a homeowner comply with their violation. This pic and choose has been going on for years. If HOA can't enforce all bylaws then will the court hold-up what is selectively an important interest by HOA. All or nothing is my thoughts, what do you all say?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Bylaws are internal documents to the HOA. The CC&Rs are the deed restrictions. You can change the bylaws relatively easy but the others take more effort. They require filing and majority signatures for changes.

Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. It is not a good idea to run your HOA by court but by its own rules. Keep in mind your HOA is ONLY made up of your fellow neighbors. It has to be selective in nature as not everyone has the same interpretation of violation or application.

Are you willing to go to a neighbors house or writing them a letter staing their violation? Then your board material and can understand the process. If not, then why expect it of others?

Former HOA President
EmmaH1
Posts: 674
Posted:
If they are being selective and you can prove it, then your HOA will lose in court. They have to treat all members equally when they do not they create problems for themselves and the entire community. You would need to show proof though. Document everything and speak to other neighbors, keep everyone informed. Hopefully you won't need to go to court but if you do you want your neighbors to know that you aren't the bad guy.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/10/2014 5:48 PM

If they are being selective and you can prove it, then your HOA will lose in court.

Actually, a better answer would be that they may lose in court. When selective enforcement is identified, the court could rule one of the following ways:

A) Selective Enforcement is occurring but you are still in violation and must bring the issue into compliance. Additionally, the Board is to cease using selective enforcement - a ruling that the Association would like.

B) Selective Enforcement is occurring, you are in violation but the Association may not enforce the covenant unless they also enforce it on all others who are also in violation (list of other violators was provided by you as proof of the selective enforcement) - a ruling that would likely upset those who are in violation but may benefit you if the Board chooses not to enforce.

C) Selective Enforcement is occurring and because of selective enforcement, the covenant itself is unenforceable - a ruling that the you would like.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
A covenant needs to be equally enforced on all .... if not enforced then owners should vote to eliminate. A covenant not enforced can end up as a legal liability. When contained in documents and not enforced other owners or even individuals outside an HOA can sue based on covenants.

My personal opinion is one of the dumbest things an HOA can do is regulate something already regulated by the local government as that only puts the legal liability on the HOA. For example most government ordinances require all dogs must be on a leash .... yet many HOA's will have this same rule. If a dog is not on a leash in an HOA and bites an individual, then that individual can potentially sue not only the dog owner but also the HOA because they did not enforce their covenant and had a dog at large not on a leash. You pay government taxes to provide local animal control, yet many HOA's are taking on the responsibility of controlling animals. I potentially can understand some control with regards to number of animals in a Condo situation; however, it amazes me the control some want to have in single family subdivisions. Why put the legal liability on yourselves?
RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Great answers. Very much what I needed. I lived in SC and was an active HOA member. The board had expert advisors visit our meeting. Emmah, they pretty much echoed your feedback. It may be state ruled. I too am dumb because adding local laws to CCRs are too smart for me to comprehend. Thanks for clarification on Bylaws vs CCR. It seems my bylaws of thr 70s contain both. It may be one staple to two docs. As I start my mission to create a more equitable relationship between the owners and business,this website will be an asset. Hopefully,I will eventually become a contrbutor and a requester.

(Ignore all spell and grammatical errors. Using itsy bitsy device and fingers are larger than screen or qwerty board.

Thank you experienced and knowledgeable people.
EmmaH1
Posts: 674
Posted:
RGI,
If you can accomplish your mission "to create a more equitable relationship between owners and business" I think all the rest will fall into place (Hopefully most of the time).

Good luck, I wish you the best.

p.s. I think in you may have a little easier time in NC because they do have some HOA specific laws in place that may be of help to you.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RG1 on 12/10/2014 8:47 AM
Condo complex is 90% used as rental apartments. The tenants are predominantly section 8 ( at risk residents). The challenges are 8-10 homeowners still live in their mortgage paid and HOA dues paying units. Management board (same as investors), cannot maintain property well because multiple independent investors own 90% of units. No central management office. Each owner find tenants, repair and service their rental properties. My question, how can HOA hold individual homeowners to high level CCR and bylaw compliance, and not enforce same on other condo owners within same condominium? If they enforce on one, and not others, do I need to comply? Can I ignore violations since external complex picture show years of non compliance by HOA and board?

This is the main problem with offsite owners - there are lots of good ones, but too many are only concerned about the rent check and don't care what the tenants are doing to the property. Since the majority of your HOA members are off-site owners renting out their unit, they dominate the board and that may explain why there's little enforcement (if you enforce against one, they may come back and enforce on YOU).

Eventually, someone will need to convince the investor-owners it really is a good idea for them to enforce CCRs. If the community is well kept with nice people living there, more nice people may want to live there. The landlord could then charge more rent because the community's attractive to potential tenants, and everyone's happy. Otherwise, you get mini-slumlords who don't give a rat's ass that the community's going to hell because 70% of the section 8 money is directly deposited into their account (the tenants only pay 30%, so in most cases, they don't have a lot of money at risk and don't care if the place goes to pot either). This isn't just a Section 8 issue - just like homeowners, there are good and bad tenants everywhere, regardless of how they pay their rent.

The key, as others have said, is to enforce the rules against the HOMEOWNERS. Unfortunately, if there are 8-10 owner-occupants left, they don't have a lot of power because everyone else is off-site (and couldn't care less because they don't live with whatever their tenants are doing). You could try taking several photos of the mess and sending it to every homeowner with a blistering letter on why the rules should be enforced and see what happens. Otherwise, you may need to decide if you need to sell your home and move on.

I wish I had better information for you - we have a lot of off-site owners in my community as well, and for a long time, we've had issues, but lately, it seems we're finally getting the bad ones out, either because they weren't paying assessments, so the HOA had to sue or they weren't making enough money because assessments went up (partly because of the people who weren't paying fees) and so they find it easier to go elsewhere where they don't have to worry about HOAs. Whatever - as long as the community is quieter and it can start looking decent!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
ShielaH, you read my initial comment in full and understand my situation fully. I appreciate all solicited advice.
RG1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
I may not win the battle but sometime the fight help get people thinking differently, thank you as I at least try. HOA board members come from all walks of life so do legislators. NC recently made adjustments to HOA regulations and perhaps its time for more. If you believe its hopeless than it is. Forward march....
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
RG, I answered your other post before I saw this one, if you're 90% investor owned, my advice is to sell and get the heck out while you can. At 90% investor owned, you will always be in the minority and the only way to make them follow the CC&R's will be through lots of expensive litigation with no guarantee of success.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 12/11/2014 11:08 AM
RG, I answered your other post before I saw this one, if you're 90% investor owned, my advice is to sell and get the heck out while you can. At 90% investor owned, you will always be in the minority and the only way to make them follow the CC&R's will be through lots of expensive litigation with no guarantee of success.

Good advice from Glen.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
yes, they can

albeit

they should NOT as they themselves would be in violation

bring appropriate legal action to force Covenant compliance

or

recall the bums as per your governing documents

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