Do BODs handle their own personal problems in the same manner as a Homeowners problem?

Started by EmmaH1 • 26 replies • 1766 views

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EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Thoughts? on maybe what steps to take if you witness/notice this type of unfair treatment happening within your own HOA? How would you address this best without creating friction/bad blood?

Maybe you have served past/present and witnessed special treatment given when addressing a BODs problem vs. a non BOD members similar problem? how would you address a problem like this?

Maybe you want to share examples of how you handled this successfully in your HOA?

Seems like it is a frequent complaint to arise, in a poorly run HOA.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

For example a recent OP had a situation where there was a leak on his ceiling and his BOD did not do much to help him at all. Let's say something similar happened his one of his BOD and the board went that extra mile to get results for the BOD that had that similar problem.

What steps would you take if you got the short end of the stick like that?

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Would you let others know what was going on?

Would you sue your HOA?

Would you look the other way if you were on that BOD?

Would you encourage the OP to confront the BOD?

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Do you think that no matter what the "victim" of the treatment does their will be bad blood?

Do you think that a homeowner that pays dues is entitled to exactly the same treatment as the BOD even if they do not volunteer??????

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I hope my gentle correction isn't taken too personally

BOD is an abbreviation for Board of Directors. So it doesn't refer to one director.

But I believe you're asking, Emma, if a director's violation of the HOA's governing documents is treated the same way as if a non director violated same.

An example I think I've seen on this forum is when a director gets away with parking her/his car illegally on the premises, yet non-directors are sent letters, are called to hearings, get fined or whatever, for the same violation.

Or do you mean when an entire board votes to violate some rule or convenient? Or an entire board ignores numerous violations of the rules, e.g., parking or residents building sheds that aren't permuted, or?

I think "personal problems" in your Subject also is what makes your topic a little murky to me.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I only responded to your OP, Emma, and not the three that your added.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/08/2014 9:30 AM

.

An example I think I've seen on this forum is when a director gets away with parking her/his car illegally on the premises, yet non-directors are sent letters, are called to hearings, get fined or whatever, for the same violation.

Or do you mean when an entire board votes to violate some rule or convenient? Or an entire board ignores numerous violations of the rules, e.g., parking or residents building sheds that aren't permuted, or?

.

I would say I am referring to both of your examples. Similar situations to both of your examples have occurred already within my small, new community.

p.s. By the way, I would not need "gentle" correction from you Kerry. Your not disrespectful. You are very business like that is your style I respect it. We are all different that's what makes the world go round. I realize your environment is very different than the one I am in since my move to SC.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

I guess I'm referring to special treatment of the Board of Directors and what to do when it happens over and over again?

I know you can eventually become a BOD member but honestly it takes time and is not that simple sometimes, an some people simply do not have the time in their lives to volunteer, do they not still deserve fair treatment?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

My my, an awful lot of follow up questions to the initial question.

To answer the initial question that is in the subject line Do BODs handle their own personal problems in the same manner as a Homeowners problem?

Ours does.

Thoughts? on maybe what steps to take if you witness/notice this type of unfair treatment happening within your own HOA? How would you address this best without creating friction/bad blood? Maybe you have served past/present and witnessed special treatment given when addressing a BODs problem vs. a non BOD members similar problem? how would you address a problem like this?

These are sort of the same question.

You can't address such an issue without bad blood. This is because people are human and nobody likes being informed that there thinking is flawed. If you are involved in the actual decision process, you can point out the requirements of the law and governing documents. Hopefully, this will sway the other board members to not support the issue and hopefully, the individual raising the issue won't hold a grudge.

However, if you are an outside observer (not part of the decision process), then you need to take steps to keep it from happening in the future. For me, I educated the membership, gathered support and the individuals were finally not reelected. It didn't happen overnight. However, it was able to happen. We (myself and the rest of the membership) set policies and adopted amendments to documents to prevent such a thing from happening in the future. It's difficult to unring the bell once rung. However, steps can be taken to keep the bell from ringing in the future.

Seems like it is a frequent complaint to arise, in a poorly run HOA.

Yes, that is true.

However, it has been my experience (and I believe the experience of many on this site) that most poorly ran Associations are being run that way because the membership doesn't want to become involved. There may be one or two members that want change, but without support from other members, it's nearly impossible to make the changes needed.

For example a recent OP had a situation where there was a leak on his ceiling and his BOD did not do much to help him at all. Let's say something similar happened his one of his BOD and the board went that extra mile to get results for the BOD that had that similar problem.

What steps would you take if you got the short end of the stick like that?

It's not worth playing what if games. There are simply too many of them.

In my opinion, that issue wasn't an Association issue. It was a neighbor vs. neighbor issue. The individual should have simply contacted his insurance company, or the neighbors insurance company, and dealt with it that way (letting the insurance companies resolve the issue between each other).

If this occurred to a member of the Board, I would tell them the same thing (and I have for similar issues). If the Board member does obtain support, I refer you to my earlier answer on what to do.

Do you think that no matter what the "victim" of the treatment does their will be bad blood?

As I stated earlier, this depends on the character of the individual. We are all human and don't like to be told we are wrong or our thinking is flawed. How quickly someone can get past that initial emotion and back to dealing with the issue rationally varies from individual to individual. Some can do this quickly. Some will never get over it and the issue will bug them the rest of their life.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Emma,

Please don't take this the wrong way. It would be much easier to respond to posts if one would take the time to fully gather their thoughts, compile and edit them and then place them in one posting instead of hitting submit after each thought is written down.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

fair enough, I'll try TimB

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

I'm a work in progress

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

On a personal level, I once sent an HOA neighbor an anonymous letter about them leaving their dog out in the rain all the time. I asked them to correct the issue or I would call the humane society. The dog was primarily kept in the house for a week then a nice new dog house showed up. Problem solved. No animosity.

Situations are not black and white. Overall no one is above the rules but one might well have "inside" information. As an example. The BOD is sent a letter complaining about a violation by someone on the BOD. Typically the procedure will be the BOD follows up and investigates the reported violation before starting any action. Well the fact that the alleged violator is on the BOD means they have a heads up about the complaint. They have more advanced notice that the BOD will be looking at the issue the then a non BOD Member would have. Did the BOD member receive preferential treatment? Some might say yes.

You mentioned the leaky roof. Assuming it was a BOD Member complaining and the BOD had to address it typically that BOD Member would be asked to refrain from commenting and voting on the issue. I have seen cases where a BOD Member was asked to step outside (absent himself) while his case was discussed.

I was on a BOD when one BOD member formally accused another BOD (the President) Member of having a conflict of interest. A decision was made to hold an investigatory meeting where both could present their cases. We also asked the President to step aside as President and let the VP run that meeting. We also said neither party could vote on the out come. It was very uncomfortable time for us all but one must accept that with authority/command comes responsibility. We unanimously (5 to 0) found no validity in the accusation. At least the accuser had the nerve to do such and I commend him for that. The accuser also realized his "stature" on the BOD was reduced so he resigned. Could the accuser have decided to go the legal route? Yes he could of and we would then have to deal with it when it happened.

While not directly on track. I am privy to some unofficial conversations going on about a dues increase. I was publically asked if I felt a dues increase was being considered. I replied our goal is to live within our budget and that is what we are working toward. Did I lie? Some might say yes.

I am rambling, but in the final outcome no one is above the rules but also if one cannot handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

I think that it's always a good idea to have a person on the board who would be offended by any hint that she would take advantage of her position on the board to her own personal benefit. She will be a watchdog for the rest of the board members.

We had an individual with the highest personal integrity on our board. But when the accusations kept coming, and she realized that these accusations were not going to stop, she resigned. Everyone's loss.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

If a board obviously violates your gov documents and/ or the law over and over again, vote them out of office either at the next election or via a recall and replace them with H/Os of integrity. This means, as has been discussed elsewhere, getting together with other H/Os, jointly learning your rights, learning your documents and learning SC laws.

Many who regularly read this forum are aware that you're unhappy with your board--so change it! We did in my HOA, Tim did; Jon did years ago, Melissa did and there may be others whom I've forgotten or who are lurkers.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/08/2014 4:04 PM
If a board obviously violates your gov documents and/ or the law over and over again, vote them out of office either at the next election or via a recall and replace them with H/Os of integrity. This means, as has been discussed elsewhere, getting together with other H/Os, jointly learning your rights, learning your documents and learning SC laws.

Many who regularly read this forum are aware that you're unhappy with your board--so change it! We did in my HOA, Tim did; Jon did years ago, Melissa did and there may be others whom I've forgotten or who are lurkers.

In my last HOA a group of us changed the BOD. It took hard work and time (two years to flush the majority out) versus sitting around and/or Internet bytching we wanted to do it.

Emma's situation is I do not think she knows or accepts who is in charge.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 12/08/2014 4:15 PM

Emma's situation is I do not think she knows or accepts who is in charge.

John,

Based on Emma's initial posts, I agree that there certainly is some confusion on who has the legal authority to run the Association (the Declarant who isn't running the Association or the Corporation created by some members who assumed authority to run the Association). This seems to be a fact as Emma explained the issue to this forum.

What I find interesting is that Emma seems to be strongly considering to run and, hopefully, be elected to serve on the Corporations Board (and I specify the Corporation, not Association, because of the legal confusion), placing herself in a position of having to defend her own authority to run the Association where she admits she isn't sure who has the legal authority to run the affairs of the Association.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

John, you are truly clueless about my HOAs situation.

Tim, your second comment is just plain silly. As if I would do any of that the way you explained it. This is a good night for laughs.

thanks guys

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2014 4:22 PM

What I find interesting is that Emma seems to be strongly considering to run and, hopefully, be elected to serve on the Corporations Board (and I specify the Corporation, not Association, because of the legal confusion), placing herself in a position of having to defend her own authority to run the Association where she admits she isn't sure who has the legal authority to run the affairs of the Association.

Quote:

Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/08/2014 4:50 PM

Tim, your second comment is just plain silly. As if I would do any of that the way you explained it. This is a good night for laughs.

Emma,

I based my comment on my recollection of your postings. However, in going back through them, I see that I did not recall them correctly.

You had posted that "Depending on how things work out in my situation I may very well end up sitting on the board. I'm doing my homework now. A couple of my neighbors suggested it (not everybody hates me)." That is the statement I recalled.

However in that same post you included: "*****My question on this post really does not refer to my personal situation, I was looking towards the future. When the scenario changes as new people move into my neighborhood and I may be on the BOD. "

Therefore, I apologize for my misunderstanding as to when you were looking at running for the Board. I will attempt to be more diligent in reviewing past posts so I don't have similar misunderstandings of what has been posted in the future.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Emma, I can't speak to every Association or in every case but I do know that our upstairs neighbor caused a leak into the middle unit before he even fully moved in (bad hookup to his new refrigerator) and one after he became a Board member (stopped-up AC drain) and he paid for the repairs both time and didn't call in any "Special Favors" the second time.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Tim,

Thanks for your apology, appreciate it. What you said was not big deal to me anyway.

That is the difference between you and some other people who would NEVER apologize or admit any wrong or misunderstanding.

p.s. I do wish you would speak up when you see other new people posting here being personally attacked. You are respected so you saying something would mean something.Some people are tough and can take in and some nice people that really need help are not, and may be scared away. (that would be sad.)

(I can stand the heat, they don't scare me....lol.)

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Emma,

Some things you will learn if you are elected to serve on your Board is that:

1) You can't fight everyone's battles for them.

2) Sometimes you have to fight for the greater purpose. - What I mean by this is that sometimes you will be presented with a situation that can cause empathy for one but the greater purpose requires that you not step in just because you can.

For example: Lets look at the leak issue. The downstairs neighbor is having damage caused by a leak from an upstairs neighbor. The governing documents provide authority to enter the upstairs unit, repair the leak and then bill the upstairs neighbor. However, because the leak is what some would call minor, a Director may need to vote to let the two individuals settle the issue themselves because of the greater purpose.

In the example above, if the Association did enter and do the repairs, the following may occur:

1) The workman and the PM/MC or Director who let them in and stayed with them are charged with trespassing. The charge may or may not stick. Regardless, if charged, the Association now has to defend the criminal charge.

2) Once entering and facing potential trespassing charges, the workmen may simply refuse to do the work because you don't own the unit and they don't want the potential liability issues.

3) Entering the unit also sets the Association up to be accused of theft (regardless if a theft occurred or not - it would depend on the individual who owns the unit)

4) Repairing the unit may establish a liability issue if the leak occurs again (finger pointing, incomplete repairs, claims of damaging something else while repairing, etc.).

5) Repairing the unit does set a precedence. Would the Association now have to enter other units and perform repairs for noise issues (as an example)? Would there be litigation because the Association fixed this leak and refuses to fix another?

6) If the unit owner doesn't pay, now the Association has to incur expenses to collect the money they see as being owed. Worst case, this could result in major litigation if the owner challenges the collection efforts in court.

7) Would press surrounding the issue of the Association entering someones property suppress sales of other units (especially if the issue is litigated)?

The greater purpose would be to not have the Association and the rest of the membership face those potential issues unless there is a major leak vs. a minor leak (even if the individual you have empathy for considers it major).

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Tim,

I understand what your point is. I know I won't be able to fight everyone's battles for them (although I would like to think I would/will always defend, protect and most of all speak up when I see someone treated unfairly.) I was raised that way and I proudly raise my children this way. I have been complimented on actions my sons have taken to stand up for what is right when they could have remained silent. Those are the highest of compliments I as a parent could ask for in my opinion.

As far as the example you use, TimJ seems like he can defend himself pretty well, he seems like his heart is in the right place and there is a lot more to his problem than just a drip. I do not claim to know his entire situation I'm sure none of us do it would be impossible.

I do think that JonD and some others took some of what he said and tried to twist things and that contributed to his entire thread going off subject. I believe my commenting took things off subject also. That part I regret. That part will make me not over react to Jon's rudeness in the future (I will bite my tongue.....lol).

p.s.
I do think JonD has scared away some good people over the years. I do think you should speak up sometimes about it in a more direct way, IMO.

I also think it is very cowardly of JonD to refer to past posters behind their backs, who are not here to defend themselves. I mean really who does that???? Its just wrong and says something about his character. Sorry I speak the truth.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

That's okay that the post was taken down, my point was not to crucify JonD. Everyone deserves a chance to change their behavior. Sometimes they need a "taste of their own medicine" in order to change. I hope it worked for the greater good of all.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2014 7:33 PM

Quote:

Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/08/2014 4:50 PM

Tim, your second comment is just plain silly. As if I would do any of that the way you explained it. This is a good night for laughs.

I haven't laughed like this in a long time, Tim you are so accurate and funny this morning, thanks!

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/09/2014 3:14 PM
Tim,

p.s.
I do think JonD has scared away some good people over the years. I do think you should speak up sometimes about it in a more direct way, IMO.

I also think it is very cowardly of JonD to refer to past posters behind their backs, who are not here to defend themselves. I mean really who does that???? Its just wrong and says something about his character. Sorry I speak the truth.

I've heard of "Third person omniscient POV", which is a method of storytelling in which the narrator knows the thoughts and feelings of

all

of the characters in the story. When did you become omniscient? One could surmise that every single person on this forum and any other is acting cowardly if I were to put any weight into your statement.

Its just wrong and says something about

your

character. Sorry I speak the truth.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Kerry,

For your sake and other people with class I will not continue this back and forth like your rightfully called it. I will take the high road.

So Jon and Crystal and Melissa you have the floor, I won't take your bait, sorry to disappoint.

Emma

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