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Florida Townhome Owners Association Taking Possession of Property in a Foreclosure process

Started by ScarlettL111 replies • 2328 views

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ScarlettL1 (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?
2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?
I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest it=f not just poor ethical judgement.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is not illegal but dumb. A few HOAs do have some success in this field but overall a risky investment by all the members. Sounds like this Realtor is taking advantage of your HOA and the apathy of the owners. Not to mention leaving it up to someone they believe is more educated. A dangerous combo.

The issue here is the HOA does still have to pay its dues on those property. The renter is NOT responsible. Which means one can not evict the tenant for not paying dues. They also can not kick the tenant out for not following the rules unless written in the lease. Which everyone should be aware of.

There are other issues in this process. Some HOAs do not own the property and rent it out. Which means any rents collected are subject to being sued for by the bank if found out or the tenant. One can not have a lease agreement long term on those properties or face trouble. The new owner moves in and finds out... Heads will be rolled.

If the HOA does own the property, then you are ALL paying for the mortgage on the house, the purchase, the maintenance, and take a hit when not rented. All of this coming from your dues or special assessments. Which do you like what you hear so far??? It gets worse....

The tax ramifications are there too. Have to pay property taxes and insurance on the home. Let us not forget the fact that any profit is then subject to taxation. Your basically have to rent out the place to break even point. Which depending on where you live and expenses may not be cheaper than buying. Which leads to the whole other issue if your HOA sells the property... Another expense and tax risk.

Personally as an experienced person who has foreclosed on a house for my HOA, I would never put my members under that risk or expense without fully explaining it to everyone. It is okay if it is agreed to by the membership and they agree to take the risks.

I would report this person to the realtor board myself. It may screw up a few things for your HOA, but it will fix ot in the long run. Be ready for a fallout. However, also educate your fellow members on the truth and reality. If they okay, then make sure things are not in the pockets of this realtor. It is in the pockets of all the members.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
In many states, it's legal for a HOA to do its own foreclosure taking the house, but the title is "dirty," because the mortgage company's interest is superior. If the house is sold, the mortgage company has to be paid off first and the HOA keeps the rest. However, there's a risk because in many cases, the houses don't sell for enough to pay everyone off and the HOA ends up writing off what it's owed. That's why some go ahead with their foreclosure, but rent out the house if it's in decent shape. The rent payments are applied against the delinquent amount and ideally, the Association will get all its costs back by the time the bank gets around to completing its foreclosure.

As you might imagine, there are pros and cons to this approach, so the Board should be discussing them with the Association attorney before doing anything, and it may also want to check with its master insurance carrier to see if they need to add landlord's insurance (and the costs that go with it). It sounds like a good idea to rent the house and try to get some money back, but the landlording expenses may be more than what you may get in return - stuff like insuring the house, advertising for tenants, running background checks and possibly evicting the tenant for not paying rent or something else, and then fixing up the house again for the next tenant.

As former Board treasures, I found it was usually a waste of time and money to pursue a foreclosure when the association learned the mortgage company was making its move, because our lien would likely get washed out anyway. We would file a lien early in the collection process because if the mortgage company completed its foreclosure, it would be responsible for assessments from that date, so it was a way we could get SOME money. Some banks go ahead and pay off the HOA, but most don't and they always keep the house in the owner's name until it's time to sell, so technically the owner's still responsible. In the end, the bank doesn't pay and neither does the owner (who may be long gone) and meanwhile, the HOA still has to maintain the common area - like the building structure of that unit! This is why many HOAs are rolling the dice and pursuing their own foreclosure.l

You don't say if you're on the board, but I agree that your HOA president has a major conflict of interest. Who's to say he's not pushing for the Association to do foreclosures so he can profit? I'd be concerned a judge might reverse the thing if that came out, so you need to talk to the rest of your board so they can take action. He's also incredibly rude - you don't have a right to find out about someone else's account since you aren't the owner, but there's no reason to be snarky.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScarlettL1 on 12/08/2014 5:04 AM

So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?


This is apparently a wide-spread practice in Florida where the time for a bank to foreclose is measured in years and association foreclosures can be made to happen in months. If the association is going through a judicial foreclosure and the courts are granting deeds to the associations then the only conclusion can be that it is legal as the courts are who determines what is and is not legal.

Quote:

2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?


If the association is granted a deed as a result of foreclosure then they are the legal owners of the property and may do anything that any other owner may do. If there is a mortgage lien on the property then there will be a time in the future when the mortgage lender may foreclose. At that time the association can either step back and let the bank take the property through foreclosure, it may surrender the deed in lieu of foreclosure, or it can extinguish the lien by paying off the lender.

This could be a win-win for all involved in many circumstances. The association wins as it may use the rent it collects while the home is in its possession to offset past unpaid assessments. The community wins because home will be cleaned up and occupied, giving the community a lived-in look as opposed to having an unoccupied eyesore in its midst. The bank wins because the home is kept in livable condition, making it easier to sell.

Quote:

I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest if not just poor ethical judgement.


I agree with you. Your president has a conflict-of-interest by having a fiduciary duty to the association and a financial interest in the real estate firm working for the association. You might be able to file a complaint against him with the real estate commission. Others familiar with Florida may be able to steer you to other agencies that can help. Your best route, however, is to work to have the president removed from office; even if he gives up his real estate interest he has now established a record of exercising extremely poor judgment, thus making him unfit for the office he now holds.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
A few months back there was a gal?? from FL posting on this chat. She seemed very knowledgeable of FL foreclosure laws. Not to put words in her mouth but she was advocating the HOA foreclose, take possession of the home (even change locks), and rent it on a monthly basis via a real estate management company. Having the HOA staying directly out of the rental. The profits of the rental going to the HOA to defray any money owed on the property.

As Shelia said, the title might be "dirty" but the point was it could be an opportunity for an HOA to make some money on the deal. Some said it was sneaky, some said it was even illegal but she said all that aside, it can be and is being done.

She was not saying the HOA got a title as in they did not own the house.

As I said, she sounded like she knew what she was talking about and said it is being done all the time.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScarlettL1 on 12/08/2014 5:04 AM
So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?
2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?
I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest it=f not just poor ethical judgement.

Exercising such an option can be done. The Association would own the property but would not have a clean title. In other words, the Bank at some point could foreclose their lien and take possession.

Since FL law has the new owner assuming the responsibility for unpaid assessments of the previous owner, it's something that may, as Melissa said, be a dumb thing to do. However, every Association has to make that decision for themselves.
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/08/2014 9:22 AM
Posted By ScarlettL1 on 12/08/2014 5:04 AM
So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?
2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?
I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest it=f not just poor ethical judgement.


Exercising such an option can be done. The Association would own the property but would not have a clean title. In other words, the Bank at some point could foreclose their lien and take possession.

Since FL law has the new owner assuming the responsibility for unpaid assessments of the previous owner, it's something that may, as Melissa said, be a dumb thing to do. However, every Association has to make that decision for themselves.

The gal might have been me, I am still here but have not been posting. By foreclosing on our lien, we made many thousands of dollars for our association, after expenses. The houses are now bank and/or privately owned but that money is still in reserves and offsetting HOA dues increases we would otherwise have to pay ourselves. I highly recommend foreclosing on the lien and renting the property IF your state laws allow this, as Florida does.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScarlettL1 on 12/08/2014 5:04 AM
So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?
2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?
I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest it=f not just poor ethical judgement.

OMG imagine all this money in HOA if a lot owner goes though a rough time they have compassionate HOA's that will comfort and joy them by slapping liens and fines for the most assine things ever to seize their houses and turn a trick for their HOA off a human being. That's the American way of life suck off the helpless and further suck their hard times life assets away from them. Hey a buck is a buck to just some. Good God imagine if a HOA would pull their assets to help those struggling HOA member out, but what the hades they smell the blood and dollar signs.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/09/2014 1:52 AM
Posted By ScarlettL1 on 12/08/2014 5:04 AM
So our HOA (Townhome’s) association board has started a new process of taking possession of homes that are under foreclosure by a bank, but due to the volume here in Florida can take years to finally settle. The home owners that are being foreclosed on by the bank owe past HOA dues and the board is taking possession and renting out the properties to collect the back dues.
1) Is this legal?
2) Does the HOA actually “own” the property?
I asked our HOA president about this and his response was to mind my own “F”ing business. He is a real-estate agent and his firm is doing the leasing of the properties so I am guessing he is making money off of these transactions. Even if it legal by the HOA I see his firm doing the leasing as a major conflict of interest it=f not just poor ethical judgement.


OMG imagine all this money in HOA if a lot owner goes though a rough time they have compassionate HOA's that will comfort and joy them by slapping liens and fines for the most assine things ever to seize their houses and turn a trick for their HOA off a human being. That's the American way of life suck off the helpless and further suck their hard times life assets away from them. Hey a buck is a buck to just some. Good God imagine if a HOA would pull their assets to help those struggling HOA member out, but what the hades they smell the blood and dollar signs.

Anyone figured out yet I don't like HOA's?, yet I get a kick out of them every few years when they try their crap on me, I hate when they go away I get bored verbally harassing them with logic and facts.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesO6 on 12/09/2014 1:52 AM

OMG imagine all this money in HOA if a lot owner goes though a rough time they have compassionate HOA's that will comfort and joy them by slapping liens and fines for the most assine things ever to seize their houses and turn a trick for their HOA off a human being.

James,

It has been my experience that Associations are generally willing to work with individuals if they know that there is a problem and a good faith effort is made (i.e. behind in assessments, pay something even if it isn't the full amount).

My Association just went through the process of sending an account into collections. The homeowner received 9 letters from the Association (I know, I sent them) over the course of a year trying to resolve the issue and specifying that we would be willing to work with them if there are mitigating circumstances. The letters included a mailing address, a phone number and an e-mail address. The Association received zero replies and zero payments. The attorney sent one letter. The owner was on the phone to them wanting to work out a deal.

Often, the Association has zero knowledge of any hardship because there is zero communication from the member.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AllisonD on 12/08/2014 9:36 AM

I am still here but have not been posting.

Hi Allison. Glad your back posting, you always have good advice.
AllisonD (Florida)
Posts: 449
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/09/2014 3:48 AM
Posted By AllisonD on 12/08/2014 9:36 AM

I am still here but have not been posting.


Hi Allison. Glad your back posting, you always have good advice.

Thank you Tim! By the way, we are not heartless people, we have an association attorney who tries every way possible to work out a payment plan and before it even goes to the attorney, I am calling the homeowner and writing letters asking them to try to work something out. The 2 homes we foreclosed on were bank foreclosures and the homeowners had moved out. A 3rd house that we ended up settling during mediation was a homeowner that did not pay dues from the time he purchased the house until our settlement (I think it was well over 5 years of unpaid dues) and the homeowner had no intention of paying; he made every excuse under the sun. Make no mistake, this is absolutely a last resort but if we simply file a lien and do nothing more, enough delinquent homeowners could bankrupt our association. We still have bills to pay including cable TV and landscaping (the 2 largest operating expense items that I cannot turn off and deduct from our expenses). As a board member I would be 'dumb' to ignore all avenues afforded to the association to collect dues that each homeowner agreed to pay when he or she purchased the house. I am thinking about the other 73 homeowners who do pay!

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