Need guidance in trying to gather complete association records

Started by RonW7 • 11 replies • 1827 views

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RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

As a semi-new president, one of my initiatives for 2015 is to gather complete association records. Over the past several decades, all the boards along the way had become very lax about making sure they know who's an actual member and who's just a family member or renter living at the residence. In fact, in the not so distant past, we've actually had renters casting votes in association meetings simply because the board at the time assumed they were a member simply because they lived in the house.

I've been perusing the pubic records on the county record website and it turns out there's one other person who's been living here since 1997, but whose parents are the actual owners. I contacted this resident who was not too happy that I was asking for their parents' contact information nearly 20 years later.

Based on my research, the association needs to get the actual owners' contact information so that it is in compliance with the Ohio Revised Code. Also, the association could be open to liability if it makes no attempt to inform the actual owners of meetings, changes in community rules, or special assessments.

If the resident refuses to provide their parents' information, should I go as far as to send a certified letter to the address listed on the deed? This way, I could at least have on association records that a contact attempt was made.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Sounds like that would cover you legally, you may want to send a certified letter to the people living in the home (the children of the owners in your case) if you have not already. That way you have even more proof that you made every effort to get the necessary information.

You may not be required to got to that extent legally though, my CC&Rs state that it is the owners responsibility to keep their information up to date (not the other way around). Check your CC&Rs carefully to be sure.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Ron,

I commend you for what you are trying to do.

As Treasurer, I have been able to keep track of our membership via the return address on checks received. You may want to consider utilizing this option to fill in some of the blanks.

Whenever I notice a change in addresses (I don't look hard at them, typically when I know a house was up for rent I pay attention) I will send a letter to the new address and the old address (the one we have on file) and ask which one the association should use. One nice thing is that most reply by e-mail. This gives the Association an e-mail contact as well.

Tim

EmmaH1
Posts: 674

Posted:

Of course state laws and codes would trump CC&Rs on what is required of you.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I will also point out that the Association is only required to send info to the address on file.
It's the owners responsibility to provide the Association with an updated address.
If they do not, then the Association has met it's obligation by sending to the last known address.

BTW - you may also want to try internet searches. I've often been able to obtain addresses using an internet search. A simple letter sent to the address can confirm.

Another option is that the County tax bills are sent somewhere. If the county website doesn't have the address listed, a visit to the office may produce results.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/06/2014 6:50 PM
Of course state laws and codes would trump CC&Rs on what is required of you.

Mailing to the last known address is typically in the State laws.

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

To all who have stated that it's the responsibility of the owner to report changes of address, I believe you are correct. See the following excerpt taken from the ORC:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5311.09

(2) Within thirty days after a unit owner obtains a condominium ownership interest, the unit owner shall provide the following information in writing to the unit owners association through the board of directors:

(a) The home address, home and business mailing addresses, and the home and business telephone numbers of the unit owner and all occupants of the unit;

(b) The name, business address, and business telephone number of any person who manages the owner's unit as an agent of that owner.

************
(3) Within thirty days after a change in any information that division (A)(2) of this section requires, a unit owner shall notify the association, through the board of directors, in writing of the change. When the board of directors requests, a unit owner shall verify or update the information.
************

Based on this, it looks like the association is covered. I am still wondering if I should make an attempt at contacting them, though.

RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Actually, I probably still should attempt contacting them. Considering the associations poor record-keeping history, there's no way of knowing if they actually did provide their updated address at some point in the past.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonW7 on 12/06/2014 6:08 PM
the association could be open to liability if it makes no attempt to inform the actual owners of meetings, changes in community rules, or special assessments.

1. What liability? The only person who has the right to challenge the board's actions is the actual owner. But that person never bothered to give you their address change. So it's on them. No basis to complain. No liability to your association.

2. "Last known address" is the typical standard for general notification by a corporation of meeting dates, etc. Additional effort to locate that person could be required if someone is being stripped of rights, but that's not the case in your situation.

3. Gratuitous transfers (between family members) are sometimes treated with a good deal of latitude under real estate laws. IMO, if there is no problem with a person who has been living there for close to 20 years, you should not get in the middle of a situation that could blow up in your face. Some siblings have a very hard time dealing with ownership issues when a parent was the prior owner. And your mailing could stir that pot unnecessarily even though that's not your intent.

4. Renters is a typical problem that many HOAs face. In our case, our docs require that the HO provide us with information on the renter. No owner has ever done that. Or docs also require that renters abide by our rules & regs. But we know of no case where the landlord provided copies of our rules & regs to their tenants. For other HOAs with much larger percentages of rentals than us, the problems can be much greater.

5. Tim's idea of reviewing the return addresses on checks can be very helpful. But many HOAs have fees paid to a lock-box at a bank, or to the MC. Return address information is not captured.

6. I commend you. Getting better records is a great starting place. But I think you may find that this will be a long range project. As a new board pres, I suggest that you don't push members of the community where you don't have to.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonW7 on 12/06/2014 9:32 PM
Actually, I probably still should attempt contacting them. Considering the associations poor record-keeping history, there's no way of knowing if they actually did provide their updated address at some point in the past.

Disagree. See previous post re gratuitous transfers and family matters.

Consider this also - Where mail is addressed to an owner and sent to the rental property, it is generally the obligation of the tenant to get that mail to the owner. If you are mailing to the rental unit, then you have satisfied your responsibility.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonW7 on 12/06/2014 9:32 PM
Actually, I probably still should attempt contacting them.

I agree that you should make an attempt.

Just don't sweat it if you don't get an updated address. If the assessments are being paid, then the Association could logically conclude that the owners are being informed.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I agree with NPS and Tim on this one. It is one of those things in a HOA's that are "ASSUMED" but in reality isn't. Our HOA never had a full comprehensive list of owners. I tried several times but it's like chasing a carrot or your own "Moby Dick".

The reality is that I kept it simple. That is the ONLY address the HOA really needs is the one in the HOA. The address on record is the HOA one. That is what makes them a member. So I always sent any notifications or certified letters to the HOA address because that is the OWNER's address. If they live somewhere else, then they should provide that information or COURTESY correspondence made to it in addition. Just keep a the UNOPENED certified letters if they are returned. This will prove the HOA sent the letter to the right address and it was NOT opened or acknowledged. It does NOT get the owner out of paying because they do not open the notification. It's a record they have been.

Another reality one must know. If you are to place a lien or do a foreclosure, this is published PUBLICLY in the newspaper in the LEGALS section. Regardless of knowing or NOT knowing the person's address, this is a PUBLIC notice. It's the same process if your trying to divorce someone and they do not respond to the paperwork. One can publish their intent to divorce in the paper and after a certain amount of time the divorce can be granted by "default". Same with liens or foreclosures. It is published as proof notification was given to the owner on multiple levels and given "fair chance" to respond. So killing yourself over finding an address in the end isn't worth it.

Please keep in mind to make a policy of when you decide to lien or foreclose. It can't be random. Our HOA we established a 6 month lien and 1 year we DISCUSSED foreclosure. That way if the people know this policy, then they will know that any "Protest not paying" "Ignorant of HOA" or just can't afford it will be weeded out. Those who have financial issues will arrange payments. Those with other issues, will face the consequences. I mention this because these are the 2 major issues one needs the owner's addresses for.

Keep in mind that the records you may "imagine" exist don't. I find people demand records and in reality they really don't exist. I refer to them as the "Harvey documents". Once you get VERY familiar with your HOA CC&R's, bylaws, and Articles of Incorporation documents, you will see what is relevant and not.

Former HOA President

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