💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JerryH8 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I have been asked by our association to develop a comprehensive list of violations with a cure timeframe. We have the re-written our violation letters and are ready to implement, however I would like to solicit information of violations that other HOA's use. I want to be able to publish on our web site the list so that homeowners know what is expected from each and everyone.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you

JerryH8
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Jerry,

What does your list currently contain?

One thing our Association does is have annual inspections. During that inspection if there is something wrong that may require a good deal of money (painting, roof, etc.) we give the homeowner a year (until the next inspection) to fix. If it's not fixed by the next inspection they then only have 30 days and we ramp up our enforcement issue. We found that by giving the homeowner a year, it allows them time to pull together the finances and builds good will between the member and the Association. Yes, there are those members that take advantage of the time frame. Fortunately, those members are only few in number.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jerry

One thing to be considered is repeated violations but not always a successive one. As an example, a trash barrel left out say once a month versus every week. They are a habitual offender. The violations/fines should be cumulative not each event kicking of a new violation warning.

Also publish what recourses are available to the association. As an example if a fence slat is damaged the owner is given 30 days to correct. At the end of the 30 days the association can correct the problem and bill the owner.

If setting a schedule/fines, etc. then be prepared to stick to it no matter what. Many complain about selective enforcement.

Have a set/fixed fining schedule. Do not be capricious.

Hope this helps.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please tell us if your HOA is detached homes? Condos? Townhomes?

Also in condo with recreational amenities likes pools and gyms, tennis courts, etc., other rules are needed.

Without doing an actual account, I'd say that the most complaints I see here are about street and/or driveway parking. In my high rise--a non-issue. But what about your HOA?
CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265
Posted:
John, on the subject of being selective, our president adamantly believes he can "secretly" grant any variance from the guidelines he wants to without anyone knowing. Only between board and a specific homeowner in his view, and it can all be done through email with no ones notice (he actually said this). So where some homeowners may receive a fine for violating certain guidelines, others would not because they've been granted a "secret" variance.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
CfD

Are you saying the BOD has no right to grant variances?

Variances can be granted. One of the first rules in getting a variance is to get it in writing in case it comes back to haunt you.

If I recall, you are one of the ones that basically advocates everyone votes on everything regardless of the power given to the BOD. Am I wrong?

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
CfD, I can think of few faster ways to create problems in an HOA than to grant preferential treatment. Does your president think he can unilaterally waive payment of assessments as well?

I don't know if Virginia is an open records state or not. In Texas, a homeowner who suspected such antics is empowered by state law to have reasonable access to association records, including e-mail.

I am aware of situations in which late payment charges and past due interest charges were waived by the Board, under unusual mitigating circumstances--such as an offer during negotiations to waive such charges if an account is brought current immediately and kept current for X number of months or years. That is an appropriate strategy as long as it is done above board, has a rationale which can be defended (such as avoiding additional arbitration or legal expenses) and is documented.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 12/04/2014 12:29 PM

I don't know if Virginia is an open records state or not.

With a few limitations, it is.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/04/2014 3:03 AM
One thing our Association does is have annual inspections. During that inspection if there is something wrong that may require a good deal of money (painting, roof, etc.) we give the homeowner a year (until the next inspection) to fix. If it's not fixed by the next inspection they then only have 30 days and we ramp up our enforcement issue. We found that by giving the homeowner a year, it allows them time to pull together the finances and builds good will between the member and the Association. Yes, there are those members that take advantage of the time frame. Fortunately, those members are only few in number.

We do something similar to Tim regarding the exterior of homes, except on a 6 year cycle.

We paint 1/6 of our houses every 6 years. When it's your turn for painting, our painter inspects and marks your house. We expect you to satisfy our HOA's pre-painting standards. During the other 5 years, we'll politely let you know of any blatantly visible deficiencies but we don't set time limits, impose fines, etc.

We find that dealing with only 1/6 of the community every year reduces the amount of energy expended by the Board. The appearance of the community has not suffered. We think we are much better off than we were when we had a PM walk the grounds every month or two and issue deficiency notices.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Oops - Meant to say we paint 1/6 of our houses every year.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
well, I suppose either statement would be correct
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/04/2014 2:56 PM
well, I suppose either statement would be correct

Quite true.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265
Posted:
No John, I'm not saying the BOD has no right to grant variances...I'm saying the BOD, not our Architectural Standards Committee, does have that right, but if a variance is to be granted it should be done out in the open in a properly noticed meeting. It really should be no big deal.

Don't recall ever advocating that members vote on everything, but in our association the membership is specifically granted through our declaration the right to be the decision maker on any changes to the architectural guidelines. Changes have to be approved by 51% of the membership to be enacted. Language in our governing docs is clear, attorney's opinion was clear, president and board didn't give a damn. They intended to jam guidelines we didn't want down our throats.

There is a clause in our arch guidelines that specifically states the architectural committee "will not approve any applications that violate any of the governing documents".

My belief is variances occasionally do warrant being granted, but not by a good buddy system between the ASC chairman and a specific homeowner where nobody else in the association is aware of what is going on, and as we're being told in board meetings we don't have a right to know period.

Our BOD doesn't even believe there is a architectural committee at all...they adamantly believe the whole idea of submitting applications is a process only, and the membership at large should not know anything at all about individual applications.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CfD on 12/04/2014 11:39 AM
. . . our president adamantly believes he can "secretly" grant any variance from the guidelines he wants to without anyone knowing.

Dispute resolution may require win-win Good Faith, but the above ultimately weakens & may even kill, compliancing. "We follow a rule in breaking a rule" quickly becomes "my cronies and I get away with what we deny to you !". Judges listen for credible evidence of discriminatory, selective enforcement. ( laches, sitting in rights). If fighting an enforcement I would be crazy not to forward such an argument, even though it is not discriminatory for other motorists to speed by while the only traffic officer is busy writing tickets as fast as possible. It is a slippery slope to Cronyism.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CfD on 12/05/2014 5:10 AM
There is a clause in our arch guidelines that specifically states the architectural committee "will not approve any applications that violate any of the governing documents".

I always have trouble with global standards of performance like this. It's fine as a target to strive for. But that's where it ends for me.

Whether a board/committee action violates some rule is often disputed - and the severity/significance/scope of that violation is typically measured from the eye of the beholder.

Sometimes it's the board/committee saying "big deal" and the HO saying "no big deal." Sometimes it's the other way around. But I don't think that some hard and fast generalization about what your board/committee must and must not do makes sense without the ability somehow to take into consideration the unique nature of the dispute, its frequency, its financial impact, and its effect on safety and goodwill. In my experience, the financial impact is the issue most frequently overlooked by boards and HOs.

In my neck of the woods, we have no saints who play by all the rules all the time. As a community, we keep each other honest by trying to promote an open dialog. It can take years to accomplish this. And we live with the reality that some people with good intentions lack the skills to make this happen.

We have no one on our board who doesn't have personal biases for and against certain people. It's human nature. That's why we strive for diversity of opinion on our board. We don't like placeholders and we have asked a few to resign. But that also means that we must then recruit a replacement. Ultimately we want to build the skill set of the individual Board members without imposing standards of performance that no ordinary human can satisfy to everyone's liking. To me, that's the essence of what we do.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
One more time Jerry. Please refer to my questions waaaaaaay above and also dress Tim's: What is on your list of violations so far????
JerryH8 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Here is a list of what I think should be there, however I am willing to add delete or change.

Power Wash Roof

Power Wash Driveway

Power Wash Gutters/Downspouts/ Drain Pipes

Weeds in Driveway

Weeds in Flower Beds

Illegal Street Parking

Items Normally Stored Indoors Being Stored in Public View

Commercial Vehicle in Driveway

Basketball Backboard in Driveway

Lawn Needs Mowing
JerryH8 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our community contains detached single family homes.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JerryH8 on 12/05/2014 9:56 AM
Here is a list of what I think should be there, however I am willing to add delete or change.

Power Wash Roof

Power Wash Driveway

Power Wash Gutters/Downspouts/ Drain Pipes

Weeds in Driveway

Weeds in Flower Beds

Illegal Street Parking

Items Normally Stored Indoors Being Stored in Public View

Commercial Vehicle in Driveway

Basketball Backboard in Driveway

Lawn Needs Mowing

How many of those are actual covenant violations?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
When I asked by last question, I did so for a point. Typically, an Association can only fine for covenant violations and rules violations. Rules are typically only applicable to use of common areas.

Often individuals will speicify in a violation notice that you are in violation of a guideline. However, guidelines are not rules/regs. They are a way of standardizing what may or may not be approved when a request is received. Therefore, an individual can't be in violation of a guideline. However, they can be in violation of a covenant that the guidelines were applicable to.

For example: You paint your house pink. You are not in violation of a guideline which listed approved paint colors. You are in violation of the covenant requiring you to obtain prior approval before painting the house pink.

To me, Jerry's list would equate to:

Personal Property being left out when not in use: Items Normally Stored Indoors Being Stored in Public View, Basketball Backboard in Driveway.

Parking Regulations: Illegal Street Parking (side note - Assocaitions don't make laws, therefore it wouldn't be illegal), Commercial Vehicle in Driveway

Failing to maintain property in good order: Weeds in Driveway, Power washing anything, Lawn Needs Mowing.

BTW - I'm curious about how one determines the roof, driveway or gutters need to be power washed. Is there some standard or is it simply the judgement of an inspector?

CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265
Posted:
Our arch guidelines are treated like rules in our declaration Tim. They supplement the covenants. The prior approval you speak of is outlined in our arch guidelines. Also included in our guidelines are things like the maintenance of grass height, where you can put your trashcan, time you can put it on the street, having a commercial vehicle in your driveway, how many flags we can have in our yard, etc. Our declaration grants the board the ability to fine us for violating any of these guidelines and many more which specifically apply to our lots.

I have no problem complying with the guidelines, or enforcement either. I just want it to be universal and open for everyone.

The whole secrecy thing does not sit well with me and never will.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Since I'm in a condo high rise, I'm no help.

But, let me ask: Are you on the Board?

In addition, do you have any common area amenities about which you need some rules.

Do note, as Tim points out (I think) Rules & Regulations are different than Covenants (CC&Rs). There are several "rules" in our CC&Rs and we've elaborated on them to eliminate confusion and ambiguity. We've also added a lot of Rules & Regs re: our gym, pools, common area parking, etc.

Rules & Regs often can be added or revised with little more than board approval ( a bit more than that in CA). But Rules & Regs must never contradict your CC&Rs, Article or bylaws.

To change or revise those "rules" that may be in your CC&Rs requires a vote of the Owners; often a very large percentage. The exception is when a higher level law, let's say municipal code contradicts your CC&Rs. In those cases, unless stated otherwise in your municipal or state or federal laws, they prevail.
CfD (Virginia)
Posts: 265
Posted:
Not on the board Kerry, but I can read. These sections are from our Declaration:

Section 7.09. Committee's Right to Promulgate Architectural
Guidelines.

Subject to the provisions of Section 7.13 below and Section 7.02(h)
above, the Architectural Standards Committee may from time to time promulgate
Architectural Guidelines governing the form and content of plans to be submitted
for approval or with respect to the approval or disapproval of certain types of
alterations, additions or modifications to improvements, or uses; provided,
however, that no such rule or regulation shall be deemed to bind the Architectural
Standards Committee to approve or disapprove any plans submitted for approval,
or to waive the exercise of the Committee's discretion as to such plans, and
provided further that no such rule or regulation shall be inconsistent with the
provisions of the Declaration or any applicable governmental law, code,
ordinance, rule or regulation. The said Architectural Guidelines and any changes
thereto shall be subject to approval by the Board of Directors and shall be
approved by a vote of a majority (51.0%) of the members present and voting at a
regular meeting of the members. So long as the Developer or its successor owns
one (1) Lot, but in no event more than five (5) years from the date of recording of
35
the Declaration, Developer must approve any changes in or additions to the
Architectural Guidelines.

Section 7.13. Restrictions on Change of Architectural Controls, Rules
or Regulations, Rights of Mortgagees.

After transfer of all Lots by Developer,
the controls set forth in this Article VII and any rules or regulations shall not, by
act or omission, be changed, waived or abandoned, unless consented to in
writing by not less than a majority (51.0%) of the total votes of all Owners
(excluding the Developer) voting in person or by proxy, written notice of which
change shall be sent to all Lot Owners and lending institution first mortgagees of
Lots whose names appear on the records of the Association at least forty (40)
days in advance of the date or initial date set for voting thereon and shall set forth
the purpose of the vote. In addition, any such change, waiver or abandonment
shall not be made if lending institutions which together are first mortgagees of 33
1/3% or more of the Lots advise the Association in writing, prior to the date or
initial date set for voting on the proposed change, waiver or abandonment, that
they are opposed to such action, which opposition must not be unreasonable.
Prior to the sale of all Lots by Developer, Paragraph 7.09 of the Original
Declaration shall apply.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sorry to have misled you, CfD. My questions were for the original poster on the Subject of listing violations. He is Jerry.

Your posts, CfD, have nothing to do with the subject of this thread. (So, I don't think JohnC or Bill should have replied to your issue instead of Jerry's)

It's always better to start a new thread when you introduce a new subject. You'll get much better feedback and won't annoy folks like me who are trying to reply to Jerry's Subject.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Kerry,

I know what you are saying but it wasn't really a new topic.
It was more of a tangent, which many threads take but are still on topic.

CF initially replied to Jerry.
People asked for some clarifications.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Kerry, I agree with you with respect to my post. I was not paying attention to who was posting which comments.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here